Bluewine Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 I realized a long time ago I'd be better off chasing opportunity would pay off better than chasing my passion ( pro headliner, touring internatioally). My passion would have probably lead me to a land of depression and frustration. It was tough to take, but I learned years ago with all the practicing I do , I didn't possess the skills I thought I did. My passion and ability had nothing to do with each other. Just because your passionate about something doesn't mean you won't suck at it. So when I realized I'd never be a pro level touring Musician, I also realized I could hang with the best of them at the bar band level and became passionate about it. It's probably why I'm out gigging every weekend and some are sitting at home in their bedroom waiting for that passion dream to come true. Thoughts & comments Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluewine Posted November 20, 2017 Author Share Posted November 20, 2017 Don't get me wrong. Understandthe difference between passion and ability, but always bring your passion with you. BIue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cato Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 (edited) In many cases I reckon passion beats ability. There are a lot of very successful bands who, when they started out at least, were not exactly virtuosos. Edit: That's my excuse and I'm sticking to it. Edited November 20, 2017 by Cato 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gary mac Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 My enthusiasm is still greater than my ability and I'm ok with that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebigyin Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 I realised many years ago i wasn't a good enough Vocalist to make it professionally but I fronted many local cover bands ect....i've been playing Bass now for about 15 years although I have what I consider a good technique i am in the same boat just not good enough to cut it at a higher level and at 56 way to old and even my boundless passion of years ago as long gone but i always say never say never Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluewine Posted November 20, 2017 Author Share Posted November 20, 2017 47 minutes ago, Cato said: In many cases I reckon passion beats ability. There are a lot of very successful bands who, when they started out at least, were not exactly virtuosos. Edit: That's my excuse and I'm sticking to it. Passion is to inportant to be without and way too fickle to follow around, especially if the direction makes no sense and not realistic. IMO Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikel Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 I will take a passionate young band, giving it large, over a bunch of session pro's going through there perfect motions, every time. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluewine Posted November 20, 2017 Author Share Posted November 20, 2017 45 minutes ago, gary mac said: My enthusiasm is still greater than my ability and I'm ok with that. Is your enthusiasm big enough to allow you to make a full time living from performing music. That's what I'm really getting at. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluewine Posted November 20, 2017 Author Share Posted November 20, 2017 45 minutes ago, thebigyin said: I realised many years ago i wasn't a good enough Vocalist to make it professionally but I fronted many local cover bands ect....i've been playing Bass now for about 15 years although I have what I consider a good technique i am in the same boat just not good enough to cut it at a higher level and at 56 way to old and even my boundless passion of years ago as long gone but i always say never say never Agreed, It's exactly what I'm getting at. Understanding the difference between passion and ability. It took me a long time to realize what it really takes to be in a pro touring situation where 100% of your income comes from playing music. It takes more than being a competent musician. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burns-bass Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 There’s no tension between the two. You can have both, or neither. Often thise with incredible ability have no passion. Often those with limited ability have great contacts. There’s no point worrying about what could have been, just enjoy what is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casapete Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, gary mac said: My enthusiasm is still greater than my ability and I'm ok with that. Mine too. Often see players locally who are technically better than me, but have somehow managed to make a living from playing bass now for well over 20 years, so must be doing something right I guess. Edited November 20, 2017 by casapete spelling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluewine Posted November 20, 2017 Author Share Posted November 20, 2017 18 minutes ago, mikel said: I will take a passionate young band, giving it large, over a bunch of session pro's going through there perfect motions, every time. That would be an entirely different discussion. IMO Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluewine Posted November 20, 2017 Author Share Posted November 20, 2017 (edited) 20 minutes ago, Burns-bass said: There’s no tension between the two. You can have both, or neither. Often thise with incredible ability have no passion. Often those with limited ability have great contacts. There’s no point worrying about what could have been, just enjoy what is. I'll go with that. I should have made it clear that my premise evolves around being able to realistically make a living from performing music. That can be challenging to those who's passion way exceeds their ability. Or can't distinguish between the two. IMO Blue Edited November 20, 2017 by Bluewine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burns-bass Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 Understand. The idea that talent is the ultimate deciding factor is flawed. As I’m sure you know, the best jobs are offered to people who know people who know. Talent is important, but contacts are better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluewine Posted November 20, 2017 Author Share Posted November 20, 2017 16 minutes ago, casapete said: Mine too. Often see players locally who are technically better than me, but have somehow managed to make a living from playing bass now for well over 20 years, so must be doing something right I guess. To me it means you have the right ability for the opportunities you persued which allow you to make a living from playing bass. There are a lot a guys with high levels of musicianship but lack passion and many cases can't see or take advantage of opportunity. Blue . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluewine Posted November 20, 2017 Author Share Posted November 20, 2017 2 minutes ago, Burns-bass said: Understand. The idea that talent is the ultimate deciding factor is flawed. As I’m sure you know, the best jobs are offered to people who know people who know. Talent is important, but contacts are better. Are talent and ability the same. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Toddy17 Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 (edited) It’s an interesting point,,we have all seen the ability of the YouTube wizards and the like,, and I personally never claimed to be a great player,or have amazing tone,,but being professional is a different thing,,,can you turn up, can you do the job, are you an ass, can you play what is wanted,,goes a lot further than I can slap the hell out of this tune...I’ve been blessed with who I’ve worked with, and the experiances I’ve had,,never expected to be on the same bill as some of my hero’s, or stand on some of the most respected stages in the world,,,but it happened,,and still does !,,,I never take it for granted,,and I can do my job,,as for technical ability,,every day is a school day, I still try to learn and improve,,,but it’s not what I get paid for.. Edited November 20, 2017 by Toddy17 Spelling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluewine Posted November 20, 2017 Author Share Posted November 20, 2017 1 hour ago, thebigyin said: I realised many years ago i wasn't a good enough Vocalist to make it professionally Very hard for most of us to admit Now, there are guys that are musically good enough to make it professionally, but lack direction and again can't see or recognize opportunity. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluewine Posted November 20, 2017 Author Share Posted November 20, 2017 I know guys with no recognizable passion but join the unions network, market themselves and take advantage of opportunity and can make a living. To me that's ability. How many of us know very talented highly skilled musicians that can't work with or understand others preventing them from being able to make a living. For example, how about the musician that doesn't have business ability. Very hard to nake a living without that Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrevorR Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 (edited) I think we fall into lazy cliches about this every time it comes up... Player in originals band = artist pursuing his dream... Hired dot reader = soulless automaton simply turning the handle for the money without a shred of artistic integrity Neither of these need be the case and often the opposite is true. I know players in pretty successful signed originals bands who still do it for the love, others who do it because it’s the only viable income stream they’ve got and a mortgage to cover. Then I think about the session players I know. I’m thinking or a few guys and gals who between them have worked with ELO, Katie Melua, We Will Rock You, Mamma Mia, Michael Nyman, Hans Zimmer, ex Whitesnake members, Strictly Come Dancing (Ie Dancing With The Stars), Jools Holland, Gary Barlow, the BBC Jazz Orchestra, Jamie Cullum, BBC Children In Need backing music, CBeebies children’s TV promotional events... there are plenty in there to choose from that will make your eyes revolve skyward and prompt you to make pretend vomiting noises... But you know something. Every time they turn up having learned a set or having a sheet of music plonked in front of them you know what you get? 100% passion, skill, commitment to the music (however pap it is), groove, emotion, feel, more groove... all the things “their type”are supposed to lack. Then I know guys who play in function and wedding bands who turn up, get a cheque, and go home. I know more who play that show to 80 drunk, unlistening wedding guests with as much commitment and passion as Slash rocking Madison Square Gardens... Personally, that was always my attitude back in my pub, function and wedding band days. Edited November 20, 2017 by TrevorR Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casapete Posted November 20, 2017 Share Posted November 20, 2017 1 hour ago, Bluewine said: To me it means you have the right ability for the opportunities you persued which allow you to make a living from playing bass. There are a lot a guys with high levels of musicianship but lack passion and many cases can't see or take advantage of opportunity. Blue . Quite likely you're right Blue. But then again, I do wonder sometimes if I were a technically more proficient player, would better opportunities have come my way? Maybe it's just how it was meant to be, but I'm certainly not complaining - never thought when I turned pro that I'd still be able to be doing it when I'm pushing 60. I also never forget (even when doing run of the mill gigs / deps etc) how fortunate I am, having done a few tedious day jobs when I was younger. Certainly made my decision to turn pro a lot easier. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluewine Posted November 20, 2017 Author Share Posted November 20, 2017 (edited) 3 hours ago, casapete said: Quite likely you're right Blue. But then again, I do wonder sometimes if I were a technically more proficient player, would better opportunities have come my way? Maybe it's just how it was meant to be, but I'm certainly not complaining - never thought when I turned pro that I'd still be able to be doing it when I'm pushing 60. I also never forget (even when doing run of the mill gigs / deps etc) how fortunate I am, having done a few tedious day jobs when I was younger. Certainly made my decision to turn pro a lot easier. We did a gig with Peter Noone (Herman's Hermits) a couple of years ago and their guitarist who is also their musical director and he watched our whole set and I spoke with him about opportunities. He told me how important it is to always be prepared. That means competent to understand different genres, might mean able to read charts and sing.Being able to pass a pro level audition. It could mean having an active passport and Visa to work in other countries. All part of ability in my book. Blue Edited November 21, 2017 by Bluewine Correction Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bluewine Posted November 21, 2017 Author Share Posted November 21, 2017 (edited) Folks, lots of good comments here. We can debate passion vs ability from all sides. However, we can't dismiss that some of us are not quite as good as we think we are. That's the honest truth, which is just another way of saying "it's my opinion". I think, at some point it's beneficial to Know your spot, I think I know mine. Blue Edited November 21, 2017 by Bluewine Correction Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
progben Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 I think in an originals "make it big" situation, the only musical talent you need to possess is being able to confidently play your songs each night. The other talents you'll need are much wider and far reaching (as Blue has touched upon), and not limited to, critical thinking, PR, marketing, accounting, graphic design, tutoring, good business sense, web design and probably a whole lot more. Obviously you can be a perfectly good, nay great! bar band and just focus on being an awesome bassist, but I strongly believe that the instrument is just one skill you'll need on your journey toward Originals Stardom. As for passion, you'll definitely need some of that, if not for the bass then for the project in general. Remember, a lot of the legendary players are so because they did things 'wrong' and developed their own style. Not a bad idea to do the same! Apologies for the long reply, great topic Blue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charic Posted November 21, 2017 Share Posted November 21, 2017 I think different people show their passion in different ways, for some it's having the biggest stage shows around, others it's in how they practice endlessly to make sure every performance flawless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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