Passion vs Ability

[cheddatom]

14 minutes ago, Bluewine said:

Yeah, I guess it can be a little depressing. Looking at reality can be that way 

Cheddatom I am quite sure you have the ability to get better and always improve.

Remember my premise is a little different. I knew whatever I did or how much I practiced I would never have what it takes to be a pro bass player touring the world and making a living from it.

I practice a lot and get better everyday and I'm sucessful at the bar band level.

Blue

I'm not sure why you've decided that? Say your musical skills are up to it (and they almost certainly are) then you just need to work on your networking and self promotion skills, then you'd have what it takes.

[Col 2]

Hi there l play with lots of “pros” 

great guys in the most but if you take them dots away in most instances their blind 

passion wins all day 

[Bluewine]

20 minutes ago, cheddatom said:

I'm not sure why you've decided that? Say your musical skills are up to it (and they almost certainly are) then you just need to work on your networking and self promotion skills, then you'd have what it takes.

I really don't have what it takes Cheddatom.

1.Being in a foreign country not knowing where I'm going to sleep or eat.

2. Being dead tired at midnight and I have to get in a van with 4 smelly dudes to drive 8 hours to get to the next gig in Manchester.

3.Being able to adapt to foreign culture.

4.Unable to understand foreign transit systems or currency

5.Being stranded when the tour fails

6. Someone might kick my arse for being a Yankee

The list goes on and on for me and none have nothing to do with musicianship.

However, I have what it takes to do what I do. I'm a very successful Midwest bar band guy. I love it.

Blue

Edited November 21, 2017 by Bluewine

[Bluewine]

19 minutes ago, Col 2 said:

Hi there l play with lots of “pros” 

great guys in the most but if you take them dots away in most instances their blind 

passion wins all day 

Col2,

Agreed and great point for a different thread about and focused the value of passion 

Blue

[cheddatom]

I guess when you said "a pro bass player touring the world" I imagined more professional tours, playing as a session player with big shows etc. rather than the "lower level" tour you describe

[Bluewine]

11 minutes ago, cheddatom said:

I guess when you said "a pro bass player touring the world" I imagined more professional tours, playing as a session player with big shows etc. rather than the "lower level" tour you describe

What I described was meant as example of why I personally don't have what it takes. Not the level of a tour. That's another topic.

Blue

[mikel]

36 minutes ago, Bluewine said:

I really don't have what it takes Cheddatom.

1.Being in a foreign country not knowing where I'm going to sleep or eat.

2. Being dead tired at midnight and I have to get in a van with 4 smelly dudes to drive 8 hours to get to the next gig in Manchester.

3.Being able to adapt to foreign culture.

4.Unable to understand foreign transit systems or currency

5.Being stranded when the tour fails

6. Someone might kick my arse for being a Yankee

The list goes on and on for me and none have nothing to do with musicianship.

However, I have what it takes to do what I do. I'm a very successful Midwest bar band guy. I love it.

Blue

So you would only Tour in Britain?  I am fairly sure there are a lot more gig options In the US for touring bands.

[Bluewine]

1 hour ago, mikel said:

So you would only Tour in Britain?  I am fairly sure there are a lot more gig options In the US for touring bands.

If I had what it takes to tour as a professional bass player I would evaluate tour opportities on a case by case basis.

Blue

[Bluewine]

1 hour ago, mikel said:

So you would only Tour in Britain?  I am fairly sure there are a lot more gig options In the US for touring bands.

Interesting, a very good friend of mine toured Britain this past summer. He's now on his way to New Zealand and Australia.

Blue

[Bluewine]

Thanks guys, great comments and opinions.

Blue

[leschirons]

Blue,

Good post. I get why you asked the question. Okay, you might not be on the same level as say, Lee Sklar but the chances are you're getting more gigs than him?

You love playing and it's paying your bills. So, you obviously play to a good enough level that allows that.

If I wasn't slowing down my gigging scedule these days, I think I'd take your enthusiasm over his ability any time.

There are many players who would kill for your gig dates.

[jazzmanb]

I've always been in it for the same reason,because i love playing the instrument.I have a bass in the house and i struggle to walk past it without picking it up,even if its for 30 seconds.I enjoyed listening to new people,it widened my outlook and improved my playing.

While tipping my cap to the greats i'm happy and content with my level .The feedback i get from bands i've been in is there's lots of great players out there but often they a)Can't keep time b)Have a poor sound/volume issues c) Over play and don't get whats important about the song

[Bluewine]

5 hours ago, leschirons said:

There are many players who would kill for your gig dates.

I know, I just hope the gigs keep rolling in.

Blue

[Dan Dare]

"Passion vs ability"? False dichotomy. You need both. As for:

4 hours ago, jazzmanb said:

lots of great players out there but often they a)Can't keep time b)Have a poor sound/volume issues c) Over play and don't get whats important about the song

... one cannot be described as a "great player" if one cannot keep time.

It all sounds a bit defensive.

[Bluewine]

6 hours ago, jazzmanb said:

i'm happy and content with my level .

Me too.

A couple of guys I stated out with back in the 60s made it to the "big time" and I always judged myself against them.

Until recently I realized I'm lucky to be where I am. 

I'm a happy  and content B list local bar band guy.

Blue

[leschirons]

Another thing is, I imagine that if you get to a really great ability level, you'll either end up always being frustrated that other band members don't quite cut it or, you're forever chasing the better gigs but possibly end up doing loads of stuff that you don't find satisfying.

[ivansc]

People who have excellent technical chops are not necessarily "good players" any more than players who play with passion as their driving force are.

Dont assume that technical ability necessarily translatesd into a good pro player, but at the same time dont assume that it means the techies are limited to the cerebral stuff.

The chap who was talking about taking sheet music away from pros and watching them founder hasnt worked with any actual pros, I assume.  My experience is quite the opposite. Worked with an incredible guitarist who could jam, busk, sight read just about anything and always imbued written parts with his own personality.  But you do have to be very good at actually performing a piece to get to that standard, not just either tech or passion.

Interesting comment from |Blue about not having the level of commitment it takes to organise the ancillary stuff.  Sometimes we forget that the harsh realities of touring DO involve packing your proverbial suitcase for a long stay away and making sure you havent left stuff you will need in the bathroom cabinet!  My touring in the UK was done as half of a duo for the most part & it IS difficult to make sure you got everything when you are squeezing clothing for a month plus all the equipment to do the show into a Ford Mondeo estate car.

  

[mikel]

10 hours ago, Bluewine said:

Me too.

A couple of guys I stated out with back in the 60s made it to the "big time" and I always judged myself against them.

Until recently I realized I'm lucky to be where I am. 

I'm a happy  and content B list local bar band guy.

Blue

The thing is, there are a lot of ways to make the "Big Time" in music. Being in an originals band that makes it. Being in the right place at the right time. Knowing the right people. Luck. Aspiration. They can all trump ability, especially the first one. Some people are hugely gifted but do not aspire to being a pro musician, for a variety of reasons. Wanting something, no matter how badly, is never enough.

[cheddatom]

On 21/11/2017 at 17:03, Bluewine said:

What I described was meant as example of why I personally don't have what it takes. Not the level of a tour. That's another topic.

Blue

What you described is a very low level tour though. I don't have what it takes to tour at that level either! 

[Bluewine]

3 hours ago, mikel said:

The thing is, there are a lot of ways to make the "Big Time" in music. Being in an originals band that makes it. Being in the right place at the right time. Knowing the right people. Luck. Aspiration. They can all trump ability, especially the first one. Some people are hugely gifted but do not aspire to being a pro musician, for a variety of reasons. Wanting something, no matter how badly, is never enough.

Again, that's a different topic.

"Big time" was only pertaining to my passion.

This is about those that have a great passion to make a lfull time living from music and finds when given the opportunity they don't have the ability, they don't have what it takes.

It could even be the person that's passionate and fancies himself a music teacher and when given the opportunity finds out he's in reality an awful teacher not suited for that kind of work.

If you achieve your passion from being in the right place at the right time and knowing the right people means you have the ability, you have what it takes. IMO

Blue

Edited November 23, 2017 by Bluewine

[Bluewine]

2 hours ago, cheddatom said:

What you described is a very low level tour though. I don't have what it takes to tour at that level either! 

I doubt I would have what it takes to tour at what you feel is low level touring or touring with Paul McCartney or The Rolling Stones.

Blue

[Highfox]

You need a bit of both imo, passion and ability, understand your limits and goals and get on with it.

[Bluewine]

2 minutes ago, Highfox said:

You need a bit of both imo, passion and ability, understand your limits and goals and get on with it.

Agreed

Blue

[Bluewine]

4 hours ago, ivansc said:

Interesting comment from |Blue about not having the level of commitment it takes to organise the ancillary stuff.  Sometimes we forget that the harsh realities of touring DO involve packing your proverbial suitcase for a long stay away and making sure you havent left stuff you will need in the bathroom cabinet!  My touring in the UK was done as half of a duo for the most part & it IS difficult to make sure you got everything when you are squeezing clothing for a month plus all the equipment to do the show into a Ford Mondeo estate car.

  

Yes, this what I'm getting at.

Blue

[ivansc]

Blue: Forgot to add the part about arriving at the French customs and immigration and getting out my passport.

Only I had my daughters by mistake!

They did let me in, but I had to get my wife to send mine via post and keep my fingers crossed that it arrived at the last place I was going in time for the trip back.