NS Design EDBs

[Al Krow]

Does anyone have one of these?

Just recently came across and played a second hand CRM4 in vgc and it's absolutely gorgeous!! It's in a totally different league to my Stagg EDB (well I guess no surprises there, given the price differential) and IMHO this, and the NXT4a, are just so much easier / more comfortable to play than any other EDBs I've come across, including the highly rated Yamaha SLB200,. Particularly in terms of reaching the high notes. I'm a little bit smitten, I'll have to confess!

Be interested to get your thoughts on the NS Design EDBs and what I might typically be expecting to pay for a second hand CRM4 or 5?

Cheers, Al.

[Silvia Bluejay]

I see nobody has replied yet, so I'll start the ball rolling. I have an NXT 5 - photos here: Warning - it's LEFT-HANDED!

Pros: very very portable; looks great; extremely easy to play, as its action can be set as low as that on a bass guitar, and it's got DOTS! Adjustable bridge height makes bowing perfectly comfortable too; extremely easy to set up through holes in the back plate, without the need to remove the cover; has a fully adjustable tripod stand that eliminates the need to balance the bass on your body while you play - it stays where you put it and you can walk around it.

Cons: doesn't sound like a double bass, even with the corresponding switch activated; doesn't 'feel' like a double bass, and offers much less of a physical experience, because it's so small and thin you can almost play it like a bass guitar; the tripod is rather horrid to look at.

Er, that's it for the cons... I do like my NXT a lot; then again, a normal size double bass is bigger and heavier than me, and a lefty is practically impossible to find and try before buying/ordering one from scratch, so EUBs are just about my only option.

Edited November 23, 2017 by Silvia Bluejay

[stingrayPete1977]

They are very pretty and in another league to the Stagg, the only thing I'd say is a possible negative is that it's less DB like than a Stagg, if someone was wanting to move onto a full DB later/as well as then I would recommend the Stagg to get the hang of the left (right for Silvia) hand technique of a DB. For me the dots just confuddle me too, I prefer the minimalist Stagg method or none at all if wanting to go full DB later.

Quick transition from elec bassist to passable in the mix upright player the NS has it hands down, most convincing DB sound alike goes to the Yamaha, most awkward to play deep neck closest to the real thing goes to the Stagg imo.

Edited November 23, 2017 by stingrayPete1977

[Al Krow]

Both the posts above have been very helpful thanks.  The NS being on a stand clearly makes it different to other uprights and I guess that is part of its 'USP'.  I'd only been considering that from the perspective of making it easier to play rather than thinking about it in terms of being less of a physical experience for me as a player and also visually less engaging for an audience. That's definitely given me food for thought and tempered my initial exuberance! 

Maybe the 'easy' next step is for me to simply to lower the action on my Stagg EUB so that it comes a little closer to that wonderfully 'plays like butter' set up I found and very much enjoyed on the NS.

Edited November 24, 2017 by Al Krow

[Silvia Bluejay]

13 hours ago, stingrayPete1977 said:

They are very pretty and in another league to the Stagg, the only thing I'd say is a possible negative is that it's less DB like than a Stagg, if someone was wanting to move onto a full DB later/as well as then I would recommend the Stagg to get the hang of the left (right for Silvia) hand technique of a DB. For me the dots just confuddle me too, I prefer the minimalist Stagg method or none at all if wanting to go full DB later.

Quick transition from elec bassist to passable in the mix upright player the NS has it hands down, most convincing DB sound alike goes to the Yamaha, most awkward to play deep neck closest to the real thing goes to the Stagg imo.

I agree with that, and in fact I do also have a slightly more DB-like EUB in the shape of my righty-turned-lefty Harley Benton. It's got a DB-like bridge and the neck's shape and size, the action etc. are closer to a DB than an NXT. I love both and happily switch between the two.

[Marc S]

15 hours ago, Silvia Bluejay said:

I see nobody has replied yet, so I'll start the ball rolling. I have an NXT 5 - photos here: Warning - it's LEFT-HANDED!

Pros: very very portable; looks great; extremely easy to play, as its action can be set as low as that on a bass guitar, and it's got DOTS! Adjustable bridge height makes bowing perfectly comfortable too; extremely easy to set up through holes in the back plate, without the need to remove the cover; has a fully adjustable tripod stand that eliminates the need to balance the bass on your body while you play - it stays where you put it and you can walk around it.

Cons: doesn't sound like a double bass, even with the corresponding switch activated; doesn't 'feel' like a double bass, and offers much less of a physical experience, because it's so small and thin you can almost play it like a bass guitar; the tripod is rather horrid to look at.

Er, that's it for the cons... I do like my NXT a lot; then again, a normal size double bass is bigger and heavier than me, and a lefty is practically impossible to find and try before buying/ordering one from scratch, so EUBs are just about my only option.

Having not played an NS design EUB, thanks for that appraisal Sylvia. It's nice to know the pros and the cons, from someone who actually plays one, rather than someone who dislikes them.
I quite fancied an NS myself, after buying a Stagg - which was also my first foray into the world of upright...
 

I've heard others say that they don't really sound much like a DB, rather like the Stagg (which sounds more like a big fretless bass IMHO)
I've heard sound clips from the Yamaha SLB's and that EUB does sound much more DB-like.... of course, this could be achieved by effects units or sound processing of some sort...

Looking at photos of the NS. I think I'd get confused by all those dots too, and I have heard of owners "dabbing" over them with a felt-tip pen (or even model makers black paint!) to help prevent confusion
But as Sylvia says, the NS does look quite cool, and the fact that it's designed to be played on the stand could be really useful

In terms of an EUB sounding more like a true acoustic DB, the best I've heard was the Emminence. Because it has a small, slim chambered body, a bit of careful EQ'ing and you can get a very DB-like sound.
I now have a KK EUB (bought from that nice chap Happy Jack of this forum). In my opinion, the KK sounds more like a Double bass than my old Stagg did, and it looks really cool, and is a fab design, shape & colour too.
Though its' main con is that it's still quite heavy, compared to a Stagg.

Al Krow, if you're intent on upgrading from the Stagg - take a bit of time, do a bit of research and play as many EUB's as you can
Pop along to a basschat meet, or maybe post a few questions and request that you try other BC members basses? We're mostly friendly folk on here
I can't see your location (NB. This may have disappeared since the recent forum update, so you might want to add it, so people can see where you are)
I'm in South Wales, and would be more than happy for a fellow BC member to come & have a try of my bass(es)

Good luck in your search
PS. The Stagg is an excellent, and inexpensive introduction to the world of upright bass 

[Paul S]

Re. stand, I bodged a stand for my Stag that actually works pretty well.  The donor was a tattoo leg/arm rest - took off the pad and it gave me this quick release jobbie.  Once it is folded up it (nearly) fits into the bow pocket on the carry bag, too.

 

Edited November 24, 2017 by Paul S
missing word

[Marc S]

That's a neat idea Paul S.
I once put an EUB stand together, using a second-hand cymbal stand, and the bracket off something else (I forget what it was off)
Turns out, the drum shop also had a bolt to fit the back of the EUB perfectly too
I know a lot of DB players don't really like uprights being on a stand, and it's probably best practice to play without using a stand as often as you can
But if you ever "double up" - playing upright on half a set, and bass guitar (or other instrument) for half a set, the stand is a god-send

[Paul S]

That's where it works for me, Marc - at some gigs I switched from one to the other and this makes it much simpler.  That plus an A/B box.  I think a cymbal stand would probably be more secure - the downside of this is that it feels a little bit lightweight.  Then again, it has never been a problem.

I also moved the end piece up a touch so I could use normal size strings - now sporting a set of Innovation black rockerbillies, which look and sound vastly better.  And pretty much as soon as I had done that we changed the format of the set and I don't play it any more! 

[Al Krow]

20 hours ago, Marc S said:

But if you ever "double up" - playing upright on half a set, and bass guitar (or other instrument) for half a set, the stand is a god-send

Marc - very much on point for me in terms of upright and bass guitar combination being what I'm likely to end up doing. But just wondering why a 'normal' stand for the EUB wouldn't work / not work as well (given that's what the bass will be on when not being used)?

PS - have edited my profile, thanks, to now include location!

Edited November 25, 2017 by Al Krow

[Marc S]

It all depends on the design of the EUB stand. The NS stand works perfectly well for just leaving the bass on, while you're not playing,
but you can also play the bass on that stand too. I don't know how secure the bass is on the stand, whilst you're playing it, as I've not played one.
I've seen players do so though, and it seems to be fine....

However, The stand for the Stagg EUB is secure enough to leave the bass on, but due to the design it's not possible to access the top half of the finger board
I bought a stand when I had my Stagg, and couldn't help thinking the manufacturers had missed a trick here - if they'd designed & built a stand which allowed you to play the bass while it was in-situ, 
I think they'd sell one to almost everyone who had bought the bass

The EUB stand I "made" from the cymbal stand worked really well though - it was really quite steady & I always felt it was secure
I also had a KYDD "Carry On" EUB recently. I bought it to try it out really - it was very compact & packed away neatly + quickly
That employed a photographers tripod as stand (a Manfrotto, for those interested) which packed down quickly and easily, was very lightweight and always seems really stable & secure
BTW I only sold the KYDD as it was 30" scale, and I was struggling to swap between all the different scales! lol

If you are looking for a stand for an EUB, I'd seriously look at adapting Cymbal stands and / or Tripods
The Drum shop near me (Drum Depot) were really helpful guys, and seemed really interested in the EUB and how they could help me make a decent quality stand for it, at a low price

[Silvia Bluejay]

The NXT stand may be ugly, but it's fully adjustable in terms of height and angle, and the bass is very firmly held by the mechanism. You could even choose to not fully tighten the bass on the stand, if you wanted it to tilt a bit while you're playing it, and it wouldn't fall off, but you would have to remember to tighten the clamp before you leave, or the bass would slowly slide down.

[razze06]

I personally don't like NS EUBs. Great finish and looks (minus the tripod), but the action is too close to that of a bass guitar for my liking. Makes me want to play it like a bass guitar  If I play upright, I like it to be like an upright as much as possible, including string height, fingerboard curvature, body contact etc.

The basic tone is neither here nor there for me. Every (electric) instrument sounds like itself, it's just a matter of finding the tone that works for you and your music.

[Al Krow]

 

28 minutes ago, razze06 said:

I personally don't like NS EUBs. Great finish and looks (minus the tripod), but the action is too close to that of a bass guitar for my liking. Makes me want to play it like a bass guitar  If I play upright, I like it to be like an upright as much as possible, including string height, fingerboard curvature, body contact etc.

I think you've hit the NS EUB conundrum 'nail' on the head! The point about it being less of a physical experience for me as a player and also visually less engaging for an audience, has kinda struck a chord with me.

It would be really interesting to see an NS EUB in action in a live band setting if there are any really good YouTube clips that do it justice? (Even better if its one of our BCer's in action!)

[jacko]

On 11/27/2017 at 10:20, Al Krow said:

 

It would be really interesting to see an NS EUB in action in a live band setting if there are any really good YouTube clips that do it justice? (Even better if its one of our BCer's in action!)

Search for some of Bonnie Raitt's performances. Hutch uses an NS upright on a tripod for some tunes.  There's footage of tony levin playing his with crimson and peter gabriel up there too.

[Paul S]

Also saw Rhonda Smith using one quite a bit at a gig with Jeff Beck - pizz and arco -  also Ged Grimes using one with Simple Minds, albeit more style over substance in that case.

[Marc S]

On 11/27/2017 at 10:20, Al Krow said:

.....It would be really interesting to see an NS EUB in action in a live band setting if there are any really good YouTube clips that do it justice? (Even better if its one of our BCer's in action!)

I've also seen one in action ( a few times in this particular case) bass player (nice bloke and talented guy) Matt Downer, playing live with Jamie Smith's Mabon
Certainly sounded good live - though I didn't think it sounded just like an acoustic DB..... Actually, in Mabon, the other instruments are quite different to the usual (whatever that is! lol)
being acoustic guitars, violins and piano accordion (Jamie is something of a wizard accordion player). I'm not sure whether they don't want a typical DB sound here, so it's being EQ'ed to sound like it does,
or whether it doesn't sound particularly like an acoustic DB, and they aren't trying to achieve that sound..... I should ask Matt really..... next time I see him
Or will he think I'm being offensive about his sound? lol

EDIT: Matt also plays bass guitar with Mabon live - he usually doubles up

Edited November 30, 2017 by Marc S

[Marc S]

The trouble with a lot of YouTube clips, is that they're normally so compressed and the sound tweaked to the extent that you can't really hear the bass that well....
Anyhow, here's Matt aka "Matt the Hat" as he's known locally with Jamie Smith's Mabon
 

 

[Al Krow]

Thanks for digging that out, Marc. Hmmm...from my perspective it does look very static and kinda feels both intimacy and vibrancy have been lost...

This is for me what a double bass or its EUB equivalent should be capable of - I loved this performance by Imelda May and her band:

 

[Marc S]

Hi Al Krow,
I know what you mean. It might just be that when a DB / EUB is on a stand, you just end up playing it as though it's more of a "static" instrument
In fact, having done both, I'd say this is what I do myself - almost even without realising it.... I often play with the bass on a stand, for reasons of logistics in rehearsal, and to make doubling up a bit easier when playing live.
It's surprising how much simpler it is when you're onstage actually, and how much time & faffing it saves

When I first started playing, other DB players told me you need to "dance" with the instrument. It does somehow feel a bit more natural when playing a bass off the stand. Though I must admit, I find it easier to play on the stand...
The DB in the 2 video clips, and of course the nature of the songs themselves also will dictate how much movement / dancing with the bass there is. Thinking about Matt the bass player in the JSM video, he defnitely moves about more when he's playing his 5 string bass guitar.....

I saw Imelda May at Cambridge Folk Fest a couple of years back. She was great, as was her DB player. Love that song too

Edited December 1, 2017 by Marc S

[petebassist]

Like @Al Krow I love the look of the NS Designs, and I tried one at the LBGS earlier this year. The tripod thing doesn't do it for me, but I'd like to try out the end-pin stand on an instrument with the action max'd out. I play acoustic upright mostly, but if I had the spare cash I'd like to explore the cross-over electric upright sound rather than just trying to replicate the amplified acoustic sound. Maybe unleash my inner prog-rock bassist alter-ego ;-)

BTW I saw Imelda May at the Croft in Bristol four or five years ago and yes the bass player's amazing, as she was ! 

 

[stingrayPete1977]

That's Al Gare, he's always good. 

[moonbass]

I think NS do a ‘traditional’ version of their EUBs that have a higher action and more DB like tone (or they used to anyway)

Also, If recording with them (rather than playing live) I once used a small condenser microphone mounted on the end of the fingerboard which gave a much more DB-like sound. For live work, the portability and easy amplification are massive pluses over DB of course, but you’re always going to look a bit geeky with and EUB. 

[Al Krow]

5 hours ago, moonbass said:

I think NS do a ‘traditional’ version of their EUBs that have a higher action and more DB like tone (or they used to anyway)

Also, If recording with them (rather than playing live) I once used a small condenser microphone mounted on the end of the fingerboard which gave a much more DB-like sound. For live work, the portability and easy amplification are massive pluses over DB of course, but you’re always going to look a bit geeky with and EUB. 

But surely no more geeky with a 'non static' EUB vs DB than a keyboard player vs upright piano? Maybe just a case of audiences needing to get familiar?

[Tradfusion]

The NS design CR4M is a great bass... I have an older one that I imported from the US many years ago.. I almost sold it on here a few times as the vast majority of my gigs were bass guitar and it seemed a shame not to be using it but in the end I couldn't get myself to part with it... tonally (mine still wears the original stock d'addario flatwound strings which many players seem to change out)  its really hard to make it sound bad and you can achieve a very tasty warm and punchy tone which though not an acoustic upright, to my ears is still far more DB than fretless electric unless you are using only the EMG's and purposely set the EQ to make it sound like a fretless.. the action is very easy to adjust and I keep mine fairly low because its just so comfortable to play... I pulled my CR4M out of the cobwebs recently to use on a recording and the engineer and all the other musicians absolutely loved the tone which was rich and creamy and just fitted the vibe of the song perfectly... I have both the tripod stand and the end pin and to be honest I'm not mad on either for a standing up gig so I found the most comfortable set up for me is the bass on the tripod but me sitting on a stool about 24 inches tall... I can get nice and comfortable in that position and really enjoy the bass... I'm very glad I didn't sell it now and I have since picked up a regular trad Irish/ folk gig which I'm getting to use the bass on and it always gets compliments on both the cool look and the rich tone...