More Beatles more Beatles more Beatles

[grandad]

Someone has mentioned that The Beatles as a whole were greater than the sum of the parts and I believe that to be true. Any alternative would have been something different.

I think Ringo's drumming was spot on, he didn't do too much or too little. I take much the same approach to my bass playing and try and put in what the tune needs.

I've accompanied so-called virtuosos who play a dozen notes where 3 or 4 would do better and it ends up a cacophony. Developing sensitivity to the tune is a must. Sometimes less is more.

A certain lead-guitarist I often accompany seems to want to play everybody else's part and doesn't understand that sometimes he needs to rest part way through a number and let the rhythm section just bring in the next part. It's team effort, and that's often forgotten with the ego-driven 'look at me' individual.

The Beatles got it right at the right time, but maybe you just had to be there!

[PaulWarning]

13 minutes ago, grandad said:

Someone has mentioned that The Beatles as a whole were greater than the sum of the parts and I believe that to be true. Any alternative would have been something different.

I think Ringo's drumming was spot on, he didn't do too much or too little. I take much the same approach to my bass playing and try and put in what the tune needs.

I've accompanied so-called virtuosos who play a dozen notes where 3 or 4 would do better and it ends up a cacophony. Developing sensitivity to the tune is a must. Sometimes less is more.

A certain lead-guitarist I often accompany seems to want to play everybody else's part and doesn't understand that sometimes he needs to rest part way through a number and let the rhythm section just bring in the next part. It's team effort, and that's often forgotten with the ego-driven 'look at me' individual.

The Beatles got it right at the right time, but maybe you just had to be there!

I have been known to say our Drummer on occasions "Sometimes less is more" or "what you don't play is just as important as what you do"

[grandad]

9 minutes ago, PaulWarning said:

I have been known to say our Drummer on occasions "Sometimes less is more" or "what you don't play is just as important as what you do"

Maybe it's as a bassist one is more aware of the spaces between the notes, often we're counting that gap. It's crucial on the slower numbers. Recently been practicing Samba Par Ti with sax, trumpet and rhythm guitar. Just getting those pauses bang on is essential.

Similar thing with Man of the World with another band.

Edited November 26, 2017 by grandad
More to say.

[EssentialTension]

1 hour ago, SpondonBassed said:

 

Thanks for reminding me.  It's years since I heard that conspiracy theory.  You might just have single handedly given this thread its second wind.  I hope your satisfied with yourself for that young old man!

I corrected it for you.

[EssentialTension]

For anyone who hasn't seen it ...

 

 

[mikel]

4 hours ago, EssentialTension said:

Didn't Dino Danelli become the fake Paul after McCartney's death?

It would explain why the drumming is so good on the first McCartney solo album.

 

No. He started making ice cream. Oh sorry, I think I misread the post.

[The Jaywalker]

On 26/11/2017 at 12:51, EssentialTension said:

.

 

 

 

Edited November 28, 2017 by The Jaywalker

[mikel]

1 hour ago, The Jaywalker said:

There's no doubt that the Beatles stuff is some of the greatest, if not the greatest,  pop music of all time. So many classic songs....

However, there's so much wrong with this fanboy video from an analytical, musical perspective that it's difficult to know where to start. 

I mean...the Beatles apparently responded creatively to Indian music by........using the same Western pentatonic melodies they always had. Which sound great, so why talk sh*te about them?!?

This programme was just more genius-claiming nonsense along the lines of the infamous stooge review claiming JL and PMc had borrowed "Aeolian Cadences" from Mahler's Songs of the Earth. Except that Aeolian Cadence was a term invented by the reviewer for V7-VI as a substitute for V7-I (D7 to Em instead of back to Gmaj - known as an Interrupted Cadence in classical terms and a well worn technique used by songwriters since forever cos it sounds nice!) Also, Mahler didnt use that harmonic resolution at any time in the piece in question. 

George Martin seems somewhat glossed over by Shore as well. Given that any of the Beatles output which had any "classical" or more advanced harmonies, string/brass parts and arrangements etc were down to GM. I suppose it's an inconvenient truth for Shore's premise. Even the most diehard Beatles fans - even those who put them on a pedestal - will acknowledge the huge part GM's collaborative influence and MD/production was.

I've no idea why folks feel the need to make ridiculous and grandiose claims like "today's equivalent of Beethoven" - perhaps in a populist sense, but in musical terms...behave. Maybe its some weird form of nationalism? Totally stupid idea to compare classical and rock music: it does them BOTH an injustice. 

The Beatles have been the zenith of pop music for approaching half a century. Everyone likes a good chunk of their music; including, I suspect, anyone who says they don't. Folks should just let the music speak for itself without attempting to mythologise.  It's not like the music isn't good enough....

 

Well you are entitled to your opinion like everyone else, but I dont know why you feel compelled to brand Mr Goodall a fanboy. He is a well educated and respected musician and composer who was looking at and explaining some of the bands work to less well musically educated people, like myself. I enjoyed the experience very much.

Edited November 26, 2017 by mikel
aditions

[wateroftyne]

1 minute ago, mikel said:

Well you are entitled to your opinion like everyone else, but I dont know why you feel compelled to brand Mr Goodall a fanboy. 

He explained why in his post.

[mikel]

1 hour ago, wateroftyne said:

He explained why in his post.

Who asked you, you Geordie fanboy?   And I don't care, don't knock other musicians simply cos you don't agree with them.

[wateroftyne]

8 minutes ago, mikel said:

Who asked you, you Geordie fanboy?   And I don't care, don't knock other musicians simply cos you don't agree with them.

Who's knocking other musicians..?

[mikel]

23 minutes ago, wateroftyne said:

Who's knocking other musicians..?

The poster I answered said "More genius claiming nonsense" with ref to the Howard Goodall program. Goodall's was simply an opinion, as valid as the posters who took issue with it. 

[The Jaywalker]

On 26/11/2017 at 20:01, mikel said:

.

Edited November 28, 2017 by The Jaywalker

[wateroftyne]

3 minutes ago, The Jaywalker said:

If you were more educated yourself, you would understand that music isnt solely a matter of opinion.  

It is, really. Anyone can play whatever they like, and call it music. The audience can choose to like it or loathe it.

[The Jaywalker]

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Edited November 28, 2017 by The Jaywalker

[wateroftyne]

Just now, The Jaywalker said:

Nope. Audience is irrelevant. Music is music.  There are absolutes and quantifiables in music, same as any other field. Or else we get into BS territory where someone disagrees that G is the 5th note of a C major scale and we accept that their uninformed opinion is as valid as our fact....

There's lots of music out there that is theoretically 100% correct, yet still offensive to my ears.

Ultimately, how it sounds to the individual, is all about perception and opinion.

[stingrayPete1977]

4 minutes ago, wateroftyne said:

There's lots of music out there that is theoretically 100% correct, yet still offensive to my ears.

Ultimately, how it sounds to the individual, is all about perception and opinion.

And likewise loads of music technically incorrect that people love, ie Bob Dylan wtf 

[wateroftyne]

Just now, stingrayPete1977 said:

And likewise loads of music technically incorrect that people love, ie Bob Dylan wtf 

Absolutely.

(Big Dylan fan here, btw.)

[arthurhenry]

On 11/24/2017 at 10:14, roceci said:

I've rinsed each of their albums from Sgt Pepper onwards in the car 

I genuinely don't know what this means. Have you got a tap in the car? Wouldn't rinsing damage the albums?

[The Jaywalker]

On 26/11/2017 at 21:46, wateroftyne said:

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Edited November 28, 2017 by The Jaywalker

[wateroftyne]

1 minute ago, The Jaywalker said:

Yes, absolutely.  To mine too. However, whether music is 100% correct is not relevant here.

How something sounds to an individual is completely separate from the factual musical information being presented at the time - being relative not only to the personal taste but also the aural sophistication and, potentially, the musical knowledge of the listener. That's why folks on forums like this say Jaco plays "fast, widdly nonsense" yet world-renowned musicians advise horn players to transcribe his solo lines because the actual musical content is that good. Opinion versus fact. 

But.. who's opinion of the music is right? The people who dismiss it as fast, widdly nonsense? Or the world-renowned musicians?

They're both right, of course.

 

[The Jaywalker]

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Edited November 28, 2017 by The Jaywalker

[wateroftyne]

Just now, The Jaywalker said:

cow poop

C'mon, you're going to have to do better than that.

Why?

[The Jaywalker]

.

 

Edited November 28, 2017 by The Jaywalker

[wateroftyne]

Who cares about the chords? What does it sound like? To some people, it's musical Nirvana. To others - me included - it's by-and-large a cacophony.

In simple terms, it's a flavour I haven't developed a taste for. Maybe one day I will.