So many parameters to achieve your sound

[bonzodog]

I've always thought my current set up lacked bottom end and have been looking at changing my amp/cabs. I recently bought a thunderbird from here and tried it out at last night's gig. Sound was fantastic with tonnes of bottom end keeping the same EQ settings I normally use on my MIM Jazz. Happy now to keep my current set up.

It made me wonder how on earth you know where to start when trying to improve your sound when there are so many factors that can determine your sound.

Off the top of my head you have, pick/fingers, type of strings, bass, bass EQ settings, amp, amp settings, speaker size, speaker configuration, effects, effects order, effects direct or fx chain, room size, number of people in room.....and that's before you think about type of cables and how hard you play.

It really is a minefield.

[NJE]

I used to worry incessantly about what bass I was using, what rig I had, was it right for the job, were my strings bright enough etc.

I came to realise after playing in 3/4 different bands over the past 4 years that, certainly in my case and situation, it doesn’t matter, and no one cares or notices how my bass sounds.

I am about the only person who notices the difference in my rig or bass and most band members can’t really hear a huge difference in a live situation. This is also compounded by the fact that I go through a PA and ‘my sound’ can usually only be heard by me on stage, and everyone out front just gets the dry signal from my DI (pre EQ most of the time) which is set up by the engineer, I don’t normally hear it.

Dont get me wrong, I will get a comment when there is too much ‘woolly’ bass or treble in a venue, but as long as I sit in a mix and play the right notes, no one cares if I’m using a Squier Precision, 3k Overwater, Aguilar rig or £250 Ashdown combo. 

For me it has become quite liberating, no one apart from me and few folks on here or other bass players (I don’t meet many to be fair) give a monkeys about my kit. This means I don’t swap my kit very often apart from out of curiosity, and I free up mental space to play and try and retain 3 bands worth of material in my brain.

 

 

 

[dmccombe7]

I've found much the same as mentioned above. Once i'm thru a PA its down to FOH engineer altho he should be setting up my PA channel as close the my on stage sound as possible. 

I've tried lots of basses over the years and when i hear audience recordings or VID clips of band i really don't hear that much difference in my tone from each bass.

The only time its noticed is when i switch from a straight clean bass sound on my Roland to one i've set up to sound like a Rik thru a slightly overdriven Ampeg rig using preset 2x15 cab that gives a little flap when pushed hard. I came across this setting purely by accident. It was original just set up as a good old fashioned Rik sound to emulate Glenn Hughes when he played his with Deep Purple and i noted how it sounded slightly overdriven and the speaker flap was an accidental find that i like. 

So for me i prefer to be more happy with the feel of the bass than the backline sound if going thru a PA. Its nice to have a good backline sound tho as sometimes the backline is all you will hear if monitors aren't great on stage.

Dave

[Japhet]

I acknowledged years ago that the average punter has no interest in my sound, and the thousands I've spent on stuff I like the sound of is primarily for me and a small minority who have any interest in bass. I once had a punter ask the band 'What does the bass do?', so to answer his question I sat out the first half of the next song (and got a huge round of applause when I started plaaying again). I also don't pay much attention to trying to replicate other people's playing or sound. I very rarely play through FOH, so if it sounds OK to me on stage and the balance is right, that's what you get.

[chris_b]

I've spent decades trying to sound good and IMO good gear, good ears and asking will make you sound as good as you're going to get. 

I used to go to the pubs and clubs to hear the best bands I never thought anything about the sound. On a weekly basis I was seeing the likes of Jack Bruce, John McVie, Alex Dmochowski, Ronnie Wood, Phil Chen and many others. They weren't special because of their sound. . . . with the gear they had in the 60's, most bass players sounded like a goose farting in a fog. It was their playing made them stand out.

In my musical world I don't see anyone getting a gig because of their sound. We get the best gigs because of our playing and most important of all. . . . being in the right place at the right time or knowing somebody. 

[TheGreek]

I'm not sure what it takes to get the "right" sound...but I know when I think it doesn't sound right. I've owned basses that should have sounded right but didn't, basses that shouldn't that do..

I currently have several basses and, to my ears, all sound right (in some way). Those that didn't have found new homes where hopefully the new owner feels that they suit what they're after.

As the OP says, there are far too many parameters to getting the "right" sound, some that you wouldn't even think would make a difference...from the direction of the cabs, the type of flooring to string gauge. What works for me may not work for you, what I love you may hate...what is right for me may be so wrong for you.

You'd think that experimentation and persistence would get you where you want/need to be but like many others I've found that this isn't always the case. May explain my unending search for the "right" gear.

 

Edited November 25, 2017 by TheGreek

[bonzodog]

Yes I agree that most people don't notice your bass sound but I just wonder where on earth you start, if you want to alter your tone as there are so many aspects that can affect it.

[NJE]

59 minutes ago, bonzodog said:

Yes I agree that most people don't notice your bass sound but I just wonder where on earth you start, if you want to alter your tone as there are so many aspects that can affect it.

I think as a player you need to decide what you want to achieve, do you want to get a ‘better’ sound or do you just want to change your sound?

What sounds ‘better’ is all subjective and causes huge arguments on forums like this. Different is a lot easier to achieve and you have already highlighted the ways to create different.

Without spending money, the quickest and easiest way to change your sound is to change hand position. Then age of strings, leave them dead if you want a warmer ’vintage’ sound. Next option, eq on your existing amp, try extremes of eq and everything in between. A plectrum is another big change for nothing (if you steal a mates plectrum).

I can do almost any kind of music and find a complementary tone for that style with just these things. Personally, I would not look to pedals to help make my sound better, only to modify, leads IMO make little to no difference (in a live situation).

That is where I would start anyway, but it’s all down to what you want to achieve and that’s down to the individual.

Edited November 25, 2017 by NJE

[interpol52]

The room is a big variable in my experience. 

I always sound like me when I play, slight variations depending on the gear maybe. 

The best live sound I ever had was at The Duchess (RIP) in Leeds, 1996 supporting a band called Sensefield as in recall. I had a Fender Precision Lyte (everything on full) through a Trace Elliott 2x10 with a 1x15 cab. No effects. On stage I knew that the planets had aligned with the sound. Then even the sound engineer said the bass sound was immense, imagine that! That's the one and only time in my years of gigging that the bass sound has ever been mentioned.

I've played tiny pubs to the Hammersmith Apollo since then with countless different set ups and never got close to that sound.

The OP is spot on that the parameters are wide. It's been fun though trying to get near that sound again though.

Edited November 25, 2017 by interpol52

[ivansc]

In my experience, you have to kiss  lot of frogs before you find your princess....

 

Funny thing is, the best bass I have ever played was the 1962 rosewood fingerboard precision I bought in 1963 and sold later that same year.... Who knew?

 

Forgot to add that my current rig is a Lil Mark III and a home-bodged ex Ashdown 2x10 cabinet with a pair of Celestion Green Label 300watt Neos in it. 

Main criterion  at my age   on this one was that it had to be really LIGHT.   

 

Edited November 26, 2017 by ivansc

[Osiris]

20 hours ago, bonzodog said:

I've always thought my current set up lacked bottom end and have been looking at changing my amp/cabs. I recently bought a thunderbird from here and tried it out at last night's gig. Sound was fantastic with tonnes of bottom end keeping the same EQ settings I normally use on my MIM Jazz. Happy now to keep my current set up.

It made me wonder how on earth you know where to start when trying to improve your sound when there are so many factors that can determine your sound.

 

It sounds as though it's your MIM jazz that is the weak link and not your rig. If you want to keep the jazz maybe consider swapping the pickups for some that have more low end perhaps? 

As for getting a good sound, I think the secret is to keep things as simple as you can. The less there is in your signal chain the quicker and easier it is to get the sound you want. More complex signal chains have more variables that can have an impact on your tone. Less is more in my experience.

What works constantly well for me is the bass with a touch of compression straight into the amp. Try to avoid any radical eq settings too, keeping the eq relatively flat may not always sound that exciting when it's just the bass in isolation but it'll work with the rest of the band. 

[leschirons]

I recently bought a back up head on here as my main amp is a GB Shuttle 6.0 and I  wanted something  sans tube. Last night was a good opportunity to try it out at length so despite having set up the Shuttle combo, I set up a second rig with this Mark bass LM2 and the other GB 1x12 cab. 

Achieved my usual sound and played the gig.  Guitarist says to me afterwards how much better and focussed my sound was.  Just goes to show, what I thought was exactly the same, was totally different. Same cab, same bass, just the head, but to me, set up with my usual sound.

Not sure how this equates to the OPs point other than my hearing is probably shot?

[dmccombe7]

When i bought my little Markbass 121 amp with ext cab i thought my sound was pretty same as my other rigs incl my Berg set up.

I played at first gigs with band and it was such a great tone and volume loud enough that PA guy decided to leave bass on its own without PA support in a venue that held 200 people. The sound out front during set up was pretty impressive for a lightweight small rig. (Glam Rock covers band)

I also used it with a Prog band and it just cut right thru the mix with keys, gtr and drums far better than my Ampeg, Bergantino or GK1001 rbii amp.

On its own at home i found it either sounded a little thin or close to my other cabs yet when in a band set up it was quite noticeably full, rounded and clear and all with virtually flat settings using a Jazz bass.

The guys in both bands commented how good it sounded from where they were standing.

Just goes to show you don't need a massive cab and heavy amp to impress others..............maybe its just to impress ourselves  

Dave

[lojo]

Whilst what you do to shape your sound doesn't always come out well through FOH , having your dream sound in your backline IMO does make you play with enjoyment and confidence , so there is merit in it.

I love my effects and trying to replicate the different sounds in the mainly 80s songs I play , but a markbass set flat and clean always sounds good 

Edited November 26, 2017 by lojo

[Paul S]

I feel much the same way. 99.9% of punters don't give a rat's arse about the sound of the bass, but I do so I go to some length to get the best sound 'for me'.  Which is generally speaking a Precision bass with a slight mid-scoop eq.

[Lozz196]

Most punters don`t care about the sound of the bass until they hear a sound they like is more my opinion. If they hear something that grabs them they`re quite happy to mention it. How do I know this, well since I bought a Tech21 Para Driver the amount of comments I now get about my sound is rather flattering.

[Yank]

Many years ago,  there wasn't the plethora of gear available today.  You had a bass and an amp.  If you weren't happy you tried out other basses and amps.  That's still a good place to start.  I'm going to assume you already have found the strings you like,  so then you can always go to replacement pickups and different cabs.  Tweak what you got,  experiment with small things,  and yes,  the sound of a room greatly affects your sound so learn how to tweak for different rooms.

[dmccombe7]

Good advice Yank. I'd agree 100% with that.

I can remember when i started you either had a Fender Precision, Jazz or a Rik. bass with either a Marshall or Sound City amp and cab or possibly an H/H which was cheaper if i remember right.

Wasnt until late 70's early 80's that Peavey and other amps started to appear in our local shop. I loved my Peavey MkIV head and Marshal 4x12 stack but bloomin heavy to cart around. Young and naive in them days. 

Dave

[Japhet]

19 minutes ago, dmccombe7 said:

Good advice Yank. I'd agree 100% with that.

I can remember when i started you either had a Fender Precision, Jazz or a Rik. bass with either a Marshall or Sound City amp and cab or possibly an H/H which was cheaper if i remember right.

Wasnt until late 70's early 80's that Peavey and other amps started to appear in our local shop. I loved my Peavey MkIV head and Marshal 4x12 stack but bloomin heavy to cart around. Young and naive in them days. 

Dave

Loved my Peavey MkIV head. That thing took so much abuse and never missed a beat. Felt like it had a big lump of concrete in one end though. Happy Days.

[thepurpleblob]

Buy half decent gear. Plug it in. Set it all flat. Play some notes. If there's obvious nasty noises in the room fix it. Press the mute button, put the bass down and wait for the gig to start. 

It's only a bass. It just needs to make a rumbly noise. 

[drTStingray]

22 hours ago, chris_b said:

They weren't special because of their sound. . . . with the gear they had in the 60's, most bass players sounded like a goose farting in a fog. It was their playing made them stand out. 

A generally true and rather telling advertisement for highly priced and prized vintage gear as I've ever seen I think.

i always thought Andy Fraser got a reasonably focussed and generally good sound with Free (I saw them live three times - all at the same venue).

I think the biggest impediment to 'your' sound is the room dynamics and particularly if you can hear yourself properly (so monitoring) - it also depends whose amps you're stood next to and how/what they play. Followed by playing a bass with a decent flexibility to get a supportive and (if you want the notes to be heard) focussed bass sound. I hear far to much indistinct mush sound these days (probably caused by people trying to get that vintage 60s vibe described by Chris_b)!! 

 

 

 

[chris_b]

I have enough people come up to me and say they like the bass for me to know that more people notice than we realise.

We have to be good enough that they want to make that step and come over and tell us.

[M@23]

3 hours ago, dmccombe7 said:

When i bought my little Markbass 121 amp with ext cab i thought my sound was pretty same as my other rigs incl my Berg set up.

I played at first gigs with band and it was such a great tone and volume loud enough that PA guy decided to leave bass on its own without PA support in a venue that held 200 people. The sound out front during set up was pretty impressive for a lightweight small rig. (Glam Rock covers band)

I also used it with a Prog band and it just cut right thru the mix with keys, gtr and drums far better than my Ampeg, Bergantino or GK1001 rbii amp.

On its own at home i found it either sounded a little thin or close to my other cabs yet when in a band set up it was quite noticeably full, rounded and clear and all with virtually flat settings using a Jazz bass.

The guys in both bands commented how good it sounded from where they were standing.

Just goes to show you don't need a massive cab and heavy amp to impress others..............maybe its just to impress ourselves  

Dave

I've had the same experience. Moved on from Markbass stuff years ago and went round the houses with 'better' boutique brands. Recently got bored of having 2 grands worth of rig and not being 100% happy with it; went back to Markbass and it just works. That sound out of the box just fits really well with so many applications.

[chris_b]

1 hour ago, M@23 said:

I. . . .  went back to Markbass and it just works. That sound out of the box just fits really well with so many applications.

When you discover the "it just works" thing, don't analyse why, just gig the hell out of it.

[EssentialTension]

Plug in and play, I don't have this thing called 'your sound'.