P over the P/J configuration, and the benefits of Roadworn

[foxyFuze]

Hello all,

I'm procrastinating as to the purchase of a P Bass; I have an old (and rather good, for me at least) P/J, and having seen several nice looking Ps and P/Js for sale, am wondering the following:

Does the pickup placement in a straight P make much (or any) difference to its placement on a P/J? I use the P pickup on its own quite a lot.

What does the Roadworn series offer aside from it, er, looking a bit battered? Seem to be a couple knocking around (Fender and a Limelight one at the time of writing).

Thanks in advance.

[LewisK1975]

I think the P pickup placement in a straight P vs. most modern (certainly Fender) P/J's is the same, so for the most part, if you get a PJ, you can still have a straight P as well, just by turning down the J pup..

Regarding the roadworn Precision (I have one, Fender not Limelight), what you get with those is a Bass that somehow feels 'played in', I've recently given mine a bit of TLC, by adding a tug bar and a bridge ashtray, along with a set of TI flatwounds, and at the moment I can't put the thing down.

I know there are other Roadworn owners, Marc S for one, who'll be along to sing the praises too.

Hope this helps!

[wateroftyne]

It's a little-known fact that the position of the P pickup does vary across P/J's.

It seems to stem from whether the J is in the 60s or 70s position. If it's in the 70s, i.e. closer to the bridge, the P is 'correct'.

If it's in the 60s position, the P pickup is usually shunted closer to the neck to keep the distance between the pups the same.

If the J pup is in the 60's position, and the P is 'correct', they'll look noticeably closer together than you'd usually see.

IMO, that small amount of shift has a significant impact on the sound of the P pickup.

Edited December 6, 2017 by wateroftyne

[Rumple]

The Roadworn Jazz I had was lovely to play, the best Fender I've ever owned.

[foxyFuze]

thanks folks, the point about positioning does confirm what I thought I had read somewhere. 

I'd say this would be the "70s" configuration as mentioned:

[Lozz196]

Benefits of Road Worn, quite simply, aside from Fender Custom Shop Pino Palladino Sig, the comfiest playing Precisions I`ve ever played. If they only did them in black, grrrrr.

[Cuzzie]

@Lozz196 Sandberg do excellent worn looks in black!

personally regardless of the split coil placement I do not think you will ever get a PJ to fully sound like a P, even with the J dialled back.

there has been a bit of wood removed, no matter how small to accommodate it. The resonance of the bass and the P sound will be altered. Doesn’t mean it’s bad, just different

[wateroftyne]

Just now, Cuzzie said:

@Lozz196 Sandberg do excellent worn looks in black!

personally regardless of the split coil placement I do not think you will ever get a PJ to fully sound like a P, even with the J dialled back.

there has been a bit of wood removed, no matter how small to accommodate it. The resonance of the bass and the P sound will be altered. Doesn’t mean it’s bad, just different

All else being equal, I think the wood and electrics would have a far bigger impact on the tone than a chunk of body being missing.

[Cuzzie]

@wateroftyne yep point taken, but if you took a P bass and then routed a hole in the J position and anything else for wires, and put nothing in it,   And changed nothing else, I am not sure it would sound the same.

i am quite happy to be wrong though

[wateroftyne]

6 minutes ago, Cuzzie said:

@wateroftyne yep point taken, but if you took a P bass and then routed a hole in the J position and anything else for wires, and put nothing in it,   And changed nothing else, I am not sure it would sound the same.

i am quite happy to be wrong though

It might well sound different, but you suggested it'll never sound like a P. I'm not sure I'd agree with that.

[nightsun]

My Hotrod P/J most definetly sounds like a P if I dial back the J, with the J dialed in it could take out buildings.  On the roadworn front, I have never played a better Fender than my Flea (if that counts, guess so).  The neck is sublime, like playing a block of butter.

[Cuzzie]

Grabbing posts between working, so it’s my fault.

what my first post should have said is pretty much what we have come to.

A straight up P with no other routing will sound different  to the same P which has had routing, does not mean it won’t sound like a P, just different, not better or worse.

similar to the fact that a P sound is not exclusive to a Fender bass, Yammy, Sandberg etc all give great P sounds, if you get my drift. So in essence to my mind and ears the P pup solo’d On a PJ or a PM config will not sound like a P alone, but it will still sound like a P if that makes sense!

[Marc S]

49 minutes ago, Lozz196 said:

Benefits of Road Worn, quite simply, aside from Fender Custom Shop Pino Palladino Sig, the comfiest playing Precisions I`ve ever played. If they only did them in black, grrrrr.

As Lozz and Lewis say, the benefits of the Fender Roadworn series lie in the quality of their build, sound and feel. Somehow, Fender have managed to create a series of instruments that feel as though they've been around for years, and played for the same amount of time. They're definitely a step up from the MIM Classic series (though these are also great basses). Personally, I also say that there's something quite liberating about gigging a bass that already has a few knocks & dings. I've gigged expensive mint or near mint condition basses, and I'm always a bit nervy - in case of being the first one to scratch or bump the bass....

I've often told a story of a singer tripping over a wire and bringing a cymbal & stand down on a mint condition Rick I once owned. Very next time I took it out to a gig (different band) I had a similar incident, and decided it was too good (and expensive) to risk damage. Of course, there are those who quite rightly say, it's a working instrument, and it's going to pick up knocks along the way - but I just don't want to be the first to do this, or make another band member feel guilty about an accident....

I've owned a couple of Fender Roadworn basses, and they've knocked spots off US Fenders I've owned. IMO, they're superb instruments. I wasn't particularly a fan of reliced / roadworn basses before - but the RW's have opened my eyes. The fact that you're not over cautious or living on tenterhooks about whether your bass gets a bump or not is just the icing on the cake for me. 

Re the pickup position - I'm not sure just how much difference the position of the added J pickup makes, but I love the configuration. I've got a P/J and a straight P, and the P/J just gives me the flexibility I want. P sound with as much (or little) Jazz burble as I want, whenever I want it.....

[Sibob]

I"m not sure I've ever seen a bass that has the Precision pickup shunted out of position to maintain the spacing between pickups if the J is in 60's position?! Seems strange, I think most luthiers would understand that if someone ordered a P/J setup, they, at some point, would want a 'traditional' Precision sound.....not something closer to the neck.

I guess they might be quite rare because many P/Js are just converted Ps anyway (people adding the jazz pickup). Whenever I've had a P/J made from scratch (a couple of different builds), I've always specified the P in the standard position and the J in 60's. Clearly both these basses (a Maruszczyk and a Lakland) will sound different to my '71 Precision with their Jazz pickups turned down, but there are so many variables at play that it's difficult to say what the extra pickup, even when off, would change.

Si

Edited December 6, 2017 by Sibob

[wateroftyne]

7 minutes ago, Sibob said:

I"m not sure I've ever seen a bass that has the Precision pickup shunted out of position to maintain the spacing between pickups if the J is in 60's position?! Seems strange, I think most luthiers would understand that if someone ordered a P/J setup, they, at some point, would want a 'traditional' Precision sound.....not something closer to the neck.

I guess they might be quite rare because many P/Js are just converted Ps anyway (people adding the jazz pickup). Whenever I've had a P/J made from scratch (a couple of different builds), I've always specified the P in the standard position and the J in 60's. Clearly both these basses (a Maruszczyk and a Lakland) will sound different to my '71 Precision with their Jazz pickups turned down, but there are so many variables at play that it's difficult to say what the extra pickup, even when off, would change.

Si

I'm fairly sure Maruszczyk P pickups are out of position by default - did they move yours for you?

 

 

[foxyFuze]

Thanks again all. This has done nothing to dampen my desire to get a P bass, not sure if I can justify it right now  but will see what's around....

[Marc S]

21 hours ago, wateroftyne said:

I'm fairly sure Maruszczyk P pickups are out of position by default - did they move yours for you?

I've fancied trying a Maruszczyk Jake for some time now. Sadly, not had chance.....
Any owners on here able to comment on how much they sound like a typical Precision?
Or how the difference in pickup position affects their P tone?

good luck in your search foxyFuze
Everyone should have at least one P in their armoury - that's all I can say
(keeping it down to just one is my problem lol)

[Sibob]

22 hours ago, wateroftyne said:

I'm fairly sure Maruszczyk P pickups are out of position by default - did they move yours for you?

 

 

I'm not entirely sure to be honest, I simply asked for the P pickup in the standard position, I made an assumption that their design would be pretty true to the original P bass dimensions.

Remember that many Jakes (your sunburst included), are 21 frets, as opposed to the 'classic' 20 frets. So visually, because the fingerboard will have an extra fret overhang, the pickup will look closer to the fingerboard.

Si

Edited December 7, 2017 by Sibob

[LewisK1975]

Yep I suppose what puts the pickup in the 'standard' position is distance from the 12th fret to the pole pieces?

[wateroftyne]

3 minutes ago, LewisK1975 said:

Yep I suppose what puts the pickup in the 'standard' position is distance from the 12th fret to the pole pieces?

I seem to recall it's slightly closer to the neck when measured from the bridge. I'll check tonight...

[Sibob]

1 minute ago, wateroftyne said:

I seem to recall it's slightly closer to the neck when measured from the bridge. I'll check tonight...

Will be interesting to know!

Si

[wateroftyne]

In the meantime, I've just put this together. 

It's completely unscientific, but maybe a bit of food for thought....

 

[wateroftyne]

Yep, I can confirm the P pickup on the Jake is closer to the neck than my '71 P. 

[Sibob]

11 minutes ago, wateroftyne said:

Yep, I can confirm the P pickup on the Jake is closer to the neck than my '71 P. 

Just to confirm though, your Jake has more frets, so it's closer to the 20th fret than your '71 P?

Si

[wateroftyne]

No - it's closer to the nut, and further from the bridge (see above pic)..