Shimming a neck

[Annoying Twit]

According to "Ask Gary Willis", you can shim the neck of a bass in order to lower the action. He recommends using a business card folded and trimmed.Is a business card really enough to significantly alter the height of the strings?

[Doctor J]

Yes, the business card will change the angle between the neck and the body very slightly, but over the length of the neck a little angle means a big change.

[Prosebass]

[quote name='Annoying Twit' post='327444' date='Nov 12 2008, 11:43 AM']According to "Ask Gary Willis", you can shim the neck of a bass in order to lower the action. He recommends using a business card folded and trimmed.Is a business card really enough to significantly alter the height of the strings?[/quote]

A business card will alter the action a lot, but I would not suggest a hard plastic shim. It is not the thickness of the card but the fact that if you place it under the heel at the end of the neck pocket it pivots the neck , so at the nut the neck can move a considerable amount in relation to the bridge.
I would suggest using cardboard from a cereal / fag packet (as this will shape itself to small irregularities) the width of the neck and approx 3/4" wide.
Remember you need to "pivot" the neck (lift it at the heel) as opposed to lifting the whole neck.
There is no golden rule just trial and error although I would set your bridge to mid point in height before starting, and also take out any concave bend in your neck.

Edited November 12, 2008 by Prosebass

[ped]

I used a playing card and found that the thickness of the card alone was enough to cure a wonky fretboard on an OLP ray I used to have. It was fine from then on. IIRC didn't Fenders sometimes have shims under the neck pockets from new?

Cheers
ped

[Annoying Twit]

Thanks for all the answers. My Shine six string arrived this morning. While I only had a couple of minutes on it before I had to leave, the action is high. Now that I have two basses, one of which was mega cheap, I want to start .... doing things to it. I'm pretty sure I won't get the action down just by adjusting the bridge.

A cereal packet? I have two "free swim" tokens removed from cereal packets that I'm p'd off about because I then found the pool wouldn't accept them except at 2am on a Sunday or whatever. So maybe they'll have a use after all.

Also, I should have posted this in the repairs/modifications/whatever it's called forum. Apologies.

[BOD2]

Have a look at the bottom of this page for a good diagram of how shimming works

[url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=18034&hl=shim&st=20"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=...=shim&st=20[/url]

Note the position of the shim in the neck pocket.

Unfortunately it's pretty much trial and error to get what you want, although the adjustment available in the bridge gives you a fair amount of leeway.

[Annoying Twit]

[quote name='BOD2' post='327515' date='Nov 12 2008, 12:48 PM']Unfortunately it's [b]pretty much trial and error[/b] to get what you want, although the adjustment available in the bridge gives you a fair amount of leeway.[/quote]

This illustrates one advantage of having a cheap bass to work on! The [b]error[/b] part is not so scary

[BigRedX]

The error bit is really just a nuisance, you're unlikely to break anything. It a bind when you have to remove the neck again to adjust the shim.

Just be careful with the neck bolts/screws and you should be fine.

[Annoying Twit]

This evening the first thing I did when I got home was to tune it up. The strings were tuned to way crazy notes. At first when I saw that the E string was tuned to a A or summat, I assumed that tuner must not be picking it up properly. But no, it was that far out of tune. After I tuned the bass, the action seems to have lowered. At least, it is much more playable. I have got some scope for lowering action at the bridge, so I'd like to try that.

Trying it this morning, the neck did seem quite wide. But this evening after playing it a bit more, it feels quite comfortable.

But the top, normally C string, seems to be the wrong gauge. It is the same gauge as the G string, and to tune it to C I need to REALLY tighten it.

On HC I'm told that La Bella make a "175" (I don't understand the units) for tuning to low F#. Since I'm in an experimental mood, I'd like to try this. Does anyone know where I can buy one in the UK?

[bassbloke]

[quote name='Annoying Twit' post='327958' date='Nov 12 2008, 09:30 PM']This evening the first thing I did when I got home was to tune it up. The strings were tuned to way crazy notes. At first when I saw that the E string was tuned to a A or summat, I assumed that tuner must not be picking it up properly. But no, it was that far out of tune. After I tuned the bass, the action seems to have lowered. At least, it is much more playable. I have got some scope for lowering action at the bridge, so I'd like to try that.

Trying it this morning, the neck did seem quite wide. But this evening after playing it a bit more, it feels quite comfortable.

But the top, normally C string, seems to be the wrong gauge. It is the same gauge as the G string, and to tune it to C I need to REALLY tighten it.

On HC I'm told that La Bella make a "175" (I don't understand the units) for tuning to low F#. Since I'm in an experimental mood, I'd like to try this. Does anyone know where I can buy one in the UK?[/quote]

You'll need to file the nut if you want to fit a set with a low F# or the strings will sit too high and the actionw ill be wrong and it'll affect playability and tone.

You have to ask if you'll use a low F# more than a high C.

[BigRedX]

Whether you shim the whole neck pocket or just one end makes no real difference to being able the get the action lower provided that you use enough material in the shim. The only difference will be where the angle of the headstock in relation to the body. And adding shim material to just one end of the neck pocket will give you more room for adjustment at the bridge for less material added.

Have a look at the diagram I made in [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=18034&view=findpost&p=184507"]post #27 of this thread[/url] and all will become clear.

You might also want to check ou the diagram about neck relief in relation to action in [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=13342&view=findpost&p=138864"]post #6 of this thread[/url].

HTH

[Annoying Twit]

[quote name='BigRedX' post='329473' date='Nov 14 2008, 11:13 PM']Whether you shim the whole neck pocket or just one end makes no real difference to being able the get the action lower provided that you use enough material in the shim. The only difference will be where the angle of the headstock in relation to the body. And adding shim material to just one end of the neck pocket will give you more room for adjustment at the bridge for less material added.

Have a look at the diagram I made in [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=18034&view=findpost&p=184507"]post #27 of this thread[/url] and all will become clear.

You might also want to check ou the diagram about neck relief in relation to action in [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=13342&view=findpost&p=138864"]post #6 of this thread[/url].

HTH[/quote]

I looked very closely at the diagram, and it helped a lot. But I've decided that restringing the bass with a proper set of new strings and adjusting the bridge are the two things to try first. When I tuned the bass, the action seemed to improve. It was tuned way, way, high, and perhaps the extra tension was putting more bow in the neck. Previously it looked like I wouldn't be able to get the action I want without shimming the neck. Now I'm not sure, and adjusting the bridge is a smaller job than shimming the neck. Given the diagrams, I would try to shim just one end to put the neck into an angle, to avoid the problems of using a thick shim as described in the diagram. Thanks.

@bassbloke I'm not planning to be a professional level musician, so don't have to be sensible. An F# might be fun. But it looks like it will cost me about £25 to do the F# thing, and that'd be ordering the string from the US. So I think I'll take the path more travelled this time.

Edited November 15, 2008 by Annoying Twit

[BigRedX]

I actually meant to post this in the other neck relief/shimming thread, but I'm glad you also found it useful.

I've found recently that lots of basses have extremely flexible US have required several weeks to stabilise to UK conditions before I could see exactly what adjustments were required.

Your first step in these situations is to fit the gauge/type of strings you want to use, tune to the pitch you want and wait at least 24 hours before making any further adjustments.