Neck Shim - best options

[discreet]

2 minutes ago, yorks5stringer said:

On the subject of using playing cards for a shim, does it matter what suit or indeed is a higher number better than a lower one... discuss!

I used The Joker so that the pack could still be used for playing cards...

[dyerseve]

27 minutes ago, yorks5stringer said:

On the subject of using playing cards for a shim, does it matter what suite or indeed is a higher number better than a lower one...discuss!

Surely the only card that should ever be used is the ace of spades, the ace of spades, the ace of spades...

[GregBass]

49 minutes ago, yorks5stringer said:

On the subject of using playing cards for a shim, does it matter what suite or indeed is a higher number better than a lower one...discuss!

I found that an Ace of Spades gives the most raucous sound

 

[converse320]

On 12/18/2017 at 16:27, discreet said:

Just to be argumentative, I don't think neck construction, neck joint, bridge construction and/or attachment or tuners make any difference to how a bass sounds either, but that's just my opinion of course. When I swap out stock tuners for Hipshot Ultralites there is no difference in 'tone' and they are very different, engineering-wise.

In my view its strings, pickups and the position of the pickups that make the difference. Most basses sound a lot like... basses.

Well, again, just to be argumentative, I have a bad tuner on one bass that keeps coming loose, and you can tell.  It just kills the string when it does.  I don't think you need exotic materials or components, but you need components and a neck with some sort of structural integrity.  I had a bass with a big wide shallow neck once, and the whole thing felt whippy and dead compared to deeper, stiffer necks.   

[discreet]

33 minutes ago, converse320 said:

I have a bad tuner on one bass that keeps coming loose, and you can tell.  It just kills the string when it does.

That's a clear case of a faulty component. It's not going to do its job properly if it's broken. I still say that tuners make little or no difference to tone - if they're functioning and properly fitted, that is.

[Paul S]

15 hours ago, dyerseve said:

Surely the only card that should ever be used is the ace of spades, the ace of spades, the ace of spades...

Queen of Clubs for disco, surely?

[gary mac]

Reading through this thread, certainly shows a massive amount of over thinking the subject. 

 

I had a P bass in for repair yesterday. It needed a shim as the bridge saddles were all the way down and the action still too high.

Had the neck off, a piece of laminated card in there and all back together, perfectly adjusted within about thirty mins. Guess what? No loss of tone/sustain/volume and the action is just lovely now.  Maybe, just maybe, the card will compress a bit in a few years time and then the whole complicated job will have to be done again. 

[discreet]

4 hours ago, Paul S said:

Queen of Clubs for disco, surely?

Will no-one call a Spade a Spade..?

[EssentialTension]

6 hours ago, gary mac said:

.. Maybe, just maybe, the card will compress a bit in a few years time and then the whole complicated job will have to be done again. 

Therefore, I recommend an interesting bit of card which can be guaranteed to amuse oneself or a luthier or another owner when the time comes to re-shim.

[Count Bassy]

On 12/22/2017 at 18:21, dyerseve said:

Surely the only card that should ever be used is the ace of spades, the ace of spades, the ace of spades...

But that would need three packs of cards!.

 

[discreet]

40 minutes ago, Count Bassy said:

But that would need three packs of cards!.

Then use diamonds. They last forever.

[Grangur]

On 23/12/2017 at 10:35, gary mac said:

Reading through this thread, certainly shows a massive amount of over thinking the subject. 

I had a P bass in for repair yesterday. It needed a shim as the bridge saddles were all the way down and the action still too high.

Had the neck off, a piece of laminated card in there and all back together, perfectly adjusted within about thirty mins. Guess what? No loss of tone/sustain/volume and the action is just lovely now.  Maybe, just maybe, the card will compress a bit in a few years time and then the whole complicated job will have to be done again. 

The human ear isn't the most reliable way to test if a shim makes a difference or not. The accurate way would be with a good mic and an oscilloscope plotting the data that can be analysed scientifically.  Set-necks and through-necks wouldn't exist if there was no benefit.

All that said, isn't it a matter of what's good enough?

If you're playing a solo virtuoso performance all this might make a difference. If you're in a punk band with everything going through effects playing 1/16 notes all night, who's going to care about minimal loss of sustain?

[discreet]

I've not played a single bass that I thought was lacking in sustain. In fact bass isn't an instrument that particularly needs it, imho.

Edited January 1, 2018 by discreet

[Grangur]

If the job of the bass is to give a good thump to a rhythm, could sustain be exactly what you don't want?

[EssentialTension]

48 minutes ago, discreet said:

I've not played a single bass that I thought was lacking in sustain. In fact bass isn't an instrument that particularly needs it, imho.

Agreed ... and anyway more sustain equals more muting becomes necessary.

Edited January 1, 2018 by EssentialTension
dumb

[Dan Dare]

3 hours ago, EssentialTension said:

Agreed ... and anyway more sustain equals more muting becomes necessary.

Hence the bit of foam we put under the strings.

[Grangur]

So, anyone want to buy the ultimate in shims; the Grangur Foam-shim!

It fits the pocket and acts to stop unwanted sustain.

Place your orders now.  

[mcnach]

5 hours ago, Grangur said:

The human ear isn't the most reliable way to test if a shim makes a difference or not. The accurate way would be with a good mic and an oscilloscope plotting the data that can be analysed scientifically.  Set-necks and through-necks wouldn't exist if there was no benefit.

All that said, isn't it a matter of what's good enough?

If you're playing a solo virtuoso performance all this might make a difference. If you're in a punk band with everything going through effects playing 1/16 notes all night, who's going to care about minimal loss of sustain?

 

I think you're overthinking it.

 

[Grangur]

Hi @mcnach , 

Yes, I know I'm being a pedant.  I hope @gary mac also appreciates this. There will almost certainly be a change in the sound, but it's really so minute it's immaterial also in most bass-playing, does it matter?

If you're going to distort the sound as well, that takes it into another area again where the difference matters even less.

No offence meant to anyone, honest!

Edited January 1, 2018 by Grangur

[mcnach]

39 minutes ago, Grangur said:

Hi @mcnach , 

Yes, I know I'm being a pedant.  I hope @gary mac also appreciates this. There will almost certainly be a change in the sound, but it's really so minute it's immaterial also in most bass-playing, does it matter?

If you're going to distort the sound as well, that takes it into another area again where the difference matters even less.

No offence meant to anyone, honest!

 

why would anyone take offence? We're just chatting

[BigRedX]

On 1/1/2018 at 09:37, Grangur said:

The human ear isn't the most reliable way to test if a shim makes a difference or not. The accurate way would be with a good mic and an oscilloscope plotting the data that can be analysed scientifically. 

You'd also have to test first whether simply taking the neck off the bass and replacing it made any difference to the sound.

[Grangur]

12 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

You'd also have to test first whether simply taking the neck off the bass and replacing it made any difference to the sound.

Very true. I once stripped down a Warwick. With the neck bolts removed I could still pick the bass up by the neck and the body stayed firmly attached. When re-assembled, it's very possible the sound was never the same again.

On a side-note: if the neck/pocket is tight, a shim at one end will cause damage to one or the other as the neck is forced to spoil the fit of the neck in the routed body. 

On another site someone tried to tell me that a sloppy-fit pocket didn't matter. Each to their own.