Original work

[Bilbo]

To my mind, any suggestion that original compositions are not as good as covers is a ridiculous position to take. My material rests on me and me alone to guarantee it's value. The 'covers' contingent can call upon every composer and songwriter ever. What possible chance have I got to convince anyone of the value of my scribblings if that is the baseline for comparison? :-D 

[chris_b]

1 minute ago, Bilbo said:

To my mind, any suggestion that original compositions are not as good as covers is a ridiculous position to take. My material rests on me and me alone to guarantee it's value. The 'covers' contingent can call upon every composer and songwriter ever. What possible chance have I got to convince anyone of the value of my scribblings if that is the baseline for comparison? :-D 

That covers bands draw from a large pool of songwriters is their strength. How could it be that Joe Bloggs, a postman from somewhere is going to write a dozen songs that are all better than Sting or Jim Webb could write? He wouldn't be a postman for long if he could. So it isn't ridiculous but a fact of life that semi pro originals bands are not going to be writing at the same level as seasoned pro songwriters.

Every songwriter is up against the competition. Every song is in judged against every other song that has so far been written and the preferences of the listener. If you write a hit, the hardest job you face is writing the next one. If you can't convince anyone by the strength of your writing then you probably don't deserve their time.

[Dad3353]

2 hours ago, PaulWarning said:

trouble with original songs is the vast majority are instantly forgettable to anyone except those who wrote and played the song, I include myself in that statement

I'm not sure that I agree totally with this. I've assisted at concerts over many decades, and have excellent souvenirs of original stuff played by local bands in the late '60s and early '70s, despite advancing age. I toured (as a lighter...) with our Eldest's punk/rock/ska band for a few years, too, who played exclusively their own stuff, either supporting or being supported by equally talented originals bands; they left a lasting impression for the most part.

It's true that I'm not an attendee at pubs, discos, raves nor dance-halls, so have absolutely no exposition to whatever is 'popular' or being played on those circuits. To me, Mustang Sally will be much the same as an 'original', if ever I get to hear it. 

[Dad3353]

1 hour ago, chris_b said:

That covers bands draw from a large pool of songwriters is their strength. How could it be that Joe Bloggs, a postman from somewhere is going to write a dozen songs that are all better than Sting or Jim Webb could write?...

Again, I'd take issue with this. There are, I agree, several hundreds of excellent, top-quality songs written and performed by the likes of Sting and co, there's no denying, but to state that 'ornery folks' can't write great stuff too is, I contend, false. An absolute judgement of comparative quality is pointless, but I have CD's of excellent amateur or semi-pro musicians doing their own compositions, often with strong local success. I'll post an early video from Kiemsa as an example. I doubt if it rings a bell with any of you, but I'd put its level of composition up (in its genre...) as good as any. Here's 'L'Atelier Fantôme', then. No good..? No good at all..? Hmm...

 

[lurksalot]

4 minutes ago, Dad3353 said:

I'm not sure that I agree totally with this. I've assisted at concerts over many decades, and have excellent souvenirs of original stuff played by local bands in the late '60s and early '70s, despite advancing age. I toured (as a lighter...) with our Eldest's punk/rock/ska band for a few years, too, who played exclusively their own stuff, either supporting or being supported by equally talented originals bands; they left a lasting impression for the most part.

It's true that I'm not an attendee at pubs, discos, raves nor dance-halls, so have absolutely no exposition to whatever is 'popular' or being played on those circuits. To me, Mustang Sally will be much the same as an 'original', if ever I get to hear it. 

I'm with Dad here, I reckon there are any number of superb songs being written and performed by thousands of people all the time , the fact that they don't get massive exposure doesn't mean the songs are no better than the greats in any way.

Listen to some massive hits and they can be populist crap written, produced and promoted with the desire to fill the purses of those involved before the quality of the song.

I realise that music is a business and is just as much a money go round as any other business , but that doesn't mean that some of the also rans cant write some beautiful stuff

 

[stingrayPete1977]

1 hour ago, chris_b said:

That covers bands draw from a large pool of songwriters is their strength. How could it be that Joe Bloggs, a postman from somewhere is going to write a dozen songs that are all better than Sting or Jim Webb could write? He wouldn't be a postman for long if he could. So it isn't ridiculous but a fact of life that semi pro originals bands are not going to be writing at the same level as seasoned pro songwriters.

Every songwriter is up against the competition. Every song is in judged against every other song that has so far been written and the preferences of the listener. If you write a hit, the hardest job you face is writing the next one. If you can't convince anyone by the strength of your writing then you probably don't deserve their time.

I think it's quite sad that a fellow musician feels this way. 

There must be some brilliant songs tucked away on home studio computers. 

[progben]

50 minutes ago, stingrayPete1977 said:

I think it's quite sad that a fellow musician feels this way. 

There must be some brilliant songs tucked away on home studio computers. 

Agreed. 

RE: my band, if we don't think the song is good enough to stand up to what's out there, it never sees the light of day.

The whole point of being in an originals band (imo) is to write the best music you've ever heard

I don't understand why you'd invest a huge amount of time, money and effort into something which you didn't think was good enough.

 

[Bluewine]

Just remember, if your going to lump all cover bands together we can just as easily lump all originals bands together too.

Blue

[progben]

26 minutes ago, Bluewine said:

Just remember, if your going to lump all cover bands together we can just as easily lump all originals bands together too.

Blue

Frankly speaking, I don't think there's that much difference between them. For example, if you replace a founding member of Band A, 20 years after they've formed and written the majority of their popular material, aren't you essentially playing covers every night?

Big grey area. We're all working towards the same goal (entertaining our audiences) and I think that's the most important thing to remember in any case.

[FuNkShUi]

10 minutes ago, progben said:

Frankly speaking, I don't think there's that much difference between them. For example, if you replace a founding member of Band A, 20 years after they've formed and written the majority of their popular material, aren't you essentially playing covers every night?

Big grey area. We're all working towards the same goal (entertaining our audiences) and I think that's the most important thing to remember in any case.

Depends if it's jazz

[PaulWarning]

1 hour ago, progben said:

Agreed. 

RE: my band, if we don't think the song is good enough to stand up to what's out there, it never sees the light of day.

The whole point of being in an originals band (imo) is to write the best music you've ever heard

I don't understand why you'd invest a huge amount of time, money and effort into something which you didn't think was good enough.

 

we think our songs are good enough, trouble is when you've written and performed them you're in no position to judge, much too close and biased, by that I'm not saying they aren't any good, it's just that I (we) can't tell

[Bluewine]

2 hours ago, progben said:

Frankly speaking, I don't think there's that much difference between them. For example, if you replace a founding member of Band A, 20 years after they've formed and written the majority of their popular material, aren't you essentially playing covers every night?

Big grey area. We're all working towards the same goal (entertaining our audiences) and I think that's the most important thing to remember in any case.

I think we're talking about originals bands at the local level.

Same goal? According to some originals bands they write songs for their own enjoyment not to entertain an audience.

Blue

[Bassassin]

The sad fact is - and it's reflected in this thread by people who I'd think would largely consider themselves to be creative individuals - that your original material is, by definition, of zero quality, and zero value unless it has somehow been validated by other people, specifically the music business. Then others might be prepared to give it a chance, otherwise - forget it.

Apropos of not a lot, regardless of how "creative" a covers band might be, they never have to trouble themselves with the properly difficult part - writing the songs.

FWIW I enjoy playing covers and have done so for both cash and laughs (sometimes simultaneously!), and likely will continue to do so - but at this stage in my "career" I doubt I'd play at all if covers were all I could do.

[Bluewine]

12 minutes ago, Bassassin said:

The sad fact is - and it's reflected in this thread by people who I'd think would largely consider themselves to be creative individuals - that your original material is, by definition, of zero quality, and zero value unless it has somehow been validated by other people, specifically the music business. Then others might be prepared to give it a chance, otherwise - forget it.

Apropos of not a lot, regardless of how "creative" a covers band might be, they never have to trouble themselves with the properly difficult part - writing the songs.

FWIW I enjoy playing covers and have done so for both cash and laughs (sometimes simultaneously!), and likely will continue to do so - but at this stage in my "career" I doubt I'd play at all if covers were all I could do.

I've played in both cover (but not the type vof cover bands you guys reference) and originals bands.

I would play in an originals band again if there was a local originals scene,and support and you could make money.

I would also play in an originals band at the national touring headliner ( 250 seat venues) level. But at the local 1 gig every 3 months level, no way.

Blue

Edited December 14, 2017 by Bluewine

[ambient]

Surely a ‘cover’ song is actually an original song, it only becomes a cover when done by another artist/band.

[Grangur]

As most here will know, I don't gig. What I can bring to this is I'm a salesman of too many years and no matter if it's originals or covers you're selling a product.

To get the gigs in the first place, landlords/promoters will like the idea of covers because you can list a load of names/titles and it feels comfortable. It's like when you look at a list of tracks on a CD, it feels reassuring when you see titles you know.  (Stupid though that is; why do you want to buy tracks you already have?)

Not being in a band I've been to see a few bands gigging in the area. No matter what you're playing you need this:

1. You need to be tight on the beat to sound good.  
2. Play with conviction - play like you like it and believe in what you're playing. If you don't the audience will smell it. (Especially if its an original)
3. Originals - if the punters don't know your repertoire your originals should have a familiar flavour to the groove - folk like to feel something familiar about it.
4. Originals - don't expect the punters to be understanding all the lyrics of a ballad an entertained by it's witty turns. They won't hear most of it. Simply feed them a good familiar sounding groove.

If this is teaching you to suck eggs, then I apologise in advance.

[FinnDave]

Exactly, all the songs my band plays are originals, but most of them aren't our originals.

[ambient]

6 hours ago, chris_b said:

That covers bands draw from a large pool of songwriters is their strength. How could it be that Joe Bloggs, a postman from somewhere is going to write a dozen songs that are all better than Sting or Jim Webb could write? He wouldn't be a postman for long if he could. So it isn't ridiculous but a fact of life that semi pro originals bands are not going to be writing at the same level as seasoned pro songwriters.

How many of the songs that are played by covers bands around the world, were written by songwriters within the first 4 or 5 years of their career though?

I can think of many bands who’s debut album has been a classic.

[Woodinblack]

I think there are some excellent original bands around, making new songs all the time. and there are some terrible ones too. I would prefer to do new covers rather than old stuff, so I am glad there are a lot of originals out there, but unfortunately I haven't found the people who I could do originals with. I have joined bands who had done originals, which meant I was playing covers of their stuff, so I am not comparing originals with covers, i am comparing covers with less well known covers.

[stingrayPete1977]

There are plenty of successful originals band I wouldn't go and see in favour of some decent local covers bands 

[Rumple]

I never wanted to play covers but I have to admit doing so has made me a far better player, I've had to improve rather that stay within my limits.

[Woodinblack]

Frankly I am happy to do either - I just love playing.