Advice needed about entry to 5 string

[Dad3353]

Our Youngest wanted to play bass, but expressed desire for a fiver to start with. I got him a Cort fiver, but very shortly after, I got my six-string fretless. He nabbed it, and has played pretty well nothing else since. He now assures the bass for all of our repertoire, with apparent ease. Yes, one can start on a fiver, or a sixer, or even a fretless. It's the motivation that counts for most, I reckon.

Just my tuppence-worth.

[meltedbuzzbox]

It's interesting that some say you need to master 4 first. What defines mastering the bass? 4 finger tapping? Sweeping?

I always thought bass was about groove and feel? The number of strings shouldn't matter for that

[ambient]

Just now, meltedbuzzbox said:

It's interesting that some say you need to master 4 first. What defines mastering the bass? 4 finger tapping? Sweeping?

I always thought bass was about groove and feel? The number of strings shouldn't matter for that

My bass is a 7 string, which to many people is the work of the devil. I get comments quite regularly on Facebook, and occasionally live from people, generally bass players.

Remember that everything that can be played on a four stringed instrument, can also be played on a five. Though not the other way around without detuning or transposing. I'd quite like to see a four string player play this, without taking it up the octave and totally ruining it in the process.

[meltedbuzzbox]

I can understand having an opinion, we all have those but telling someone they are wrong because they do something different to you is pretty ignorant.

Love the 7 string, not sure I could handle a monster like that but I would have a go!

[Burns-bass]

One of the reasons 5 strings are great is that you get access to the extended range that a lot of score writers use. Often composing on a keyboard involves using some really low notes.

5 strings are also slightly easier if you’re reading as you get a greater variety of notes in a smaller space, economising movement.

i play 4 strings, but am considering getting another 5.

[3below]

Having seriously moved to the 5 string world about 6 months ago I am only now getting towards my 4 string speed & fluidity of playing (I do not practice as much as I should).  The biggest challenge has been the narrower string spacing and wider neck, surprising since I play quite a range of 4 strings and db.  Fiver is now the bass of choice, having a fretted bottom E makes so much of my playing easier and more 'solid'.

[ambient]

I'd generally always play low E at the 5th fret on the B string. Having low F etc from the 6 fret upwards means that pretty much without moving position gives you a 2 octave range, low E at the 5th fret B string up to an E at the 9th fret on the G string. So, so much easier than having to keep moving about, especially if it's a reading gig or improvising following chords.

[dmccombe7]

I bought a Peavey 5 string think it cost just under £500 few yrs back. Great bass for the money but the string spacing was an issue for me. It felt good in the shop when i was sitting down mucking about with it but when i was standing with it at home i noticed i kept missing notes when changing strings.

The Peavey basses sell 2nd hand for circa £200-£300. Good enough bass with thunderous active tone too.

I put this down to 16mm string spacing at bridge end rather than my ususal 18mm. I now have a Dingwall 5er and the fan fret is good but i personally think its over-rated and probably wouldn't buy another fan fret.

Scale length of my basses varies from standard 34 to the Dingwall and Overwater 6 custom being 35" & think the B string on the Dingwall is 37" if i remember right but you really don't notice the scale length too much when you change basses you automatically adapt after a while.

I would suggest trying in local shop first but for £500 a good 2nd hand bass should be easy to find.

Dave

Edit to add : i have tried the 5 and 6 string basses and still have 3 of them but i nearly always play my 4 string basses. I tended to use my 5 for Prog bands and my 4 strings for general rock covers. No reason someone cant start off with a 5 or 6 string. If it works for you use it. Its a starting point and you can always move down to 4 strings if you want. There's no hard and fast rule for everyone in bass except commitment to learning. 

Edited December 10, 2017 by dmccombe7

[SpondonBassed]

On 12/9/2017 at 14:26, meltedbuzzbox said:

Hello all,

I'm looking at diving it the 5 string world. Ideally I am going to spend under £500 but I was looking for advice.

Should I look at a fan fret? Do I need a minimum scale length for the b string?

I was thinking about getting a Sterling Ray 5 but I thought I would ask about before I dived in.

Thanks

Don't overthink it.  That's my advice.  Try one.

[SpondonBassed]

On 12/9/2017 at 20:40, ambient said:

My bass is a 7 string, which to many people is the work of the devil. I get comments quite regularly on Facebook, and occasionally live from people, generally bass players.

Remember that everything that can be played on a four stringed instrument, can also be played on a five. Though not the other way around without detuning or transposing. I'd quite like to see a four string player play this, without taking it up the octave and totally ruining it in the process.

Can we have that in TAB too please?

[SpondonBassed]

On 12/9/2017 at 15:23, T-Bay said:

Hmm, that’s what I thought. I have toyed with the idea but love my Thunderbird too much to completely give it up. I have wondered about trying to adjust my technique and start resting my thumb on the B string (except when playing it obviously) but not sure if that will do the trick, I presently do a sort of half arsed floating thumb technique where it floats from the pick up to the E string and back but no lower.

You've answered your own question.

Just be aware that you need to keep your plucking hand in the same position relative to the pickup upon which you will rest your thumb going up onto the E and A strings.  I'd argue that it is a necessary technique to have in your 'tool kit' .  It damps the low B quite a lot of the time.

In practice it is useful to switch between a number of damping techniques.  Depending on your style it's good to try many differing techniques and whittle them down to the most efficient set that you can feel competent with.

It should not be a problem going back to four strings.  Just stay extra-alert for the first few bars and work out your string options on the fly.  It's not easy at first but it isn't hard to get used to it.

By the way.  I am only a hobby bassist so better advice can be had.

[Al Krow]

On 09/12/2017 at 19:06, ambient said:

It’s not, in my opinion anyway, just the extra notes. It’s the positional thing too.

+1 to this. And the low notes! The human hearing range typically goes down to 20Hz that's only a couple of notes below the low B, so a fiver really does have it covered. A full 7 octave piano keyboard only goes one note lower than the bottom B (down to the A).

I got my first 5 earlier this year. Lot's of useful advice / suggestions from fellow BCers on this thread: a lot of great choices to think about!

I ended up getting a second hand Warwick Corvette $$ (which fellow BCer @Grangur did a marvellous job of refinishing to mint) - I love the growl of the Warwick pups; and also a fantastic new (but end of line at a PMT discounted price) Yamaha BB425, which has a P bass mid punch that will cut through in any mix. I've recently just traded that for a 6 string Ibanez 1206 (trying to keep to a one in one out discipline!). The Ibby is going to be a keeper for sure, it's a great bass, but I'm already missing the Yammy!

You really couldn't go wrong with something like this Yammy BB235 in the FS as an introduction to the world of 5 strings - nearly new and almost half price! I suspect it won't be hanging around too long before it's sold.

Have fun exploring! 

 

[uk_lefty]

I started playing bass aged fifteen and got my first five string for my eighteenth birthday. Having a good quality bass with more options on it really opened up and improved my playing. I was by no means a master of the four string at that point!

My five string was relatively cheap but these days a good bass can be bought for less than five hundred quid! Obviously second hand gets you more for the money too.

If you want to do it and you can afford it I say jump right in. It doesn't take long to get used to it and it could really benefit your playing. Good luck! 

[Japhet]

Lakland 55 01 is a cracking bass for the kind of money you're talking about.

As for the confusion issue in swapping between 4 and 5 strings, I took a bit of advice from a guitarist mate and started to take my points of reference from the G string on the bass instead of the E or B. Helped me a lot and now it doesn't take any extra thought to play either bass.

[BigRedX]

A well-contracted neck and neck joint is far more important than the scale length on a 5-string bass unless you are looking at 36" scale or longer basses.

The next most important thing is to find the right strings for your 5-string bass. What works well on one bass doesn't necessarily work as well on another, plus IMO the low-B strings in most sets are too light and low in tension compared with the other strings. For example, in a standard 40-100 set the low B should be at least 128 if not 130.

As others have said go and play as many 5-strings as you can and see what suits you. Also your money will go a lot further if you buy second hand, and you'll loose less should you decide that 5-strings really isn't for you and you end up selling it on. IME most people trying 5-strings for the first time make the mistake of buying something cheap that isn't sufficiently well enough made to do the low B string justice. After all there is much more to making a decent 5-string bass than taking a standard 4-string design and putting a wider neck on it.

Finally, again as others have said, once you get your 5-string put your 4-string bass(es) away and don't get them out again until you are either ready to sell them or you find you really can't get on with your 5-string.

[CameronJ]

36 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

A well-contracted neck and neck joint is far more important than the scale length on a 5-string bass unless you are looking at 36" scale or longer basses.

The next most important thing is to find the right strings for your 5-string bass. What works well on one bass doesn't necessarily work as well on another, plus IMO the low-B strings in most sets are too light and low in tension compared with the other strings. For example, in a standard 40-100 set the low B should be at least 128 if not 130.

As others have said go and play as many 5-strings as you can and see what suits you. Also your money will go a lot further if you buy second hand, and you'll loose less should you decide that 5-strings really isn't for you and you end up selling it on. IME most people trying 5-strings for the first time make the mistake of buying something cheap that isn't sufficiently well enough made to do the low B string justice. After all there is much more to making a decent 5-string bass than taking a standard 4-string design and putting a wider neck on it.

Finally, again as others have said, once you get your 5-string put your 4-string bass(es) away and don't get them out again until you are either ready to sell them or you find you really can't get on with your 5-string.

This. All of this.

[Delberthot]

On 12/9/2017 at 18:18, ambient said:

I can never understand why people take a 4 and a 5 to gigs. Unless the 4 gives something the 5 doesn’t ie fretless or other distinctive sound, just use the 5.

If the Gibson EB 5 that will be arriving today works out then I will be taking it and my Sterling to gigs and will play whatever one I feel like playing that night.

I remember the Freddie Mercury tribute concert where Jason Newstead, when he was playing with Metallica, had a 4 for the first song, then a 5 then finally a 6. As far as I am aware they were all identical Spectors.

Anyway, back to the original question - I began playing when I was 12 and got my first 5 when I was 19. I think I was in my late 20s when I went to a 6 but after giving it a couple of years went back to a 5. I also played 8s and 12vers for a while. In the past 5 or 6 years I've gone between a 4 and a 5.

The important thing is to give it time and play the 5 exclusively until you are comfortable with where everything is in terms of what you can play in different positions. I had years sticking with a 4 a 5 and then a 6 until I was at the stage where I can now jump from one to another without really thinking about it.

It's like driving cars & vans. Once you've driven enough of them, you can jump in one for the first time and feel comfortable almost immediately.

I've just bought another 5 because I fancied a change, the price was good and I've never owned a Gibson before.

 

 

Edited December 11, 2017 by Delberthot

[SpondonBassed]

2 hours ago, BigRedX said:

...once you get your 5-string put your 4-string bass(es) away and don't get them out again until you are either ready to sell them or you find you really can't get on with your 5-string.

...or you just want to play them.

No-one is saying you can't switch back and forth to suit your circumstances.  I am whimsical and I like to change it up, as they say, just for a bit of variety now and again.  I am very happy that I didn't sell my B2A.  That's going to be an heirloom one day.  It also happens to sound good.

[Al Krow]

14 minutes ago, SpondonBassed said:

...or you just want to play them.

No-one is saying you can't switch back and forth to suit your circumstances.  I am whimsical and I like to change it up, as they say, just for a bit of variety now and again.  I am very happy that I didn't sell my B2A.  That's going to be an heirloom one day.  It also happens to sound good.

+1 to that!

Too much mystique surrounding playing a 5 string bass. It really is not a big scary monster!

It allows you more freedom to play at one position on the fretboard without having to go up and down like a yo-yo and to access them low notes down below an E. And the B string is a nice place to rest your thumb when you're playing the top 4 strings  

You'll pick it up in no time. 

Edited December 11, 2017 by Al Krow

[oggiesnr]

For me the most important thing is to go somewhere you can play a few and buy one that you have actually played.  Even in these days of quality not all basses are created equal and needing a major set up to make it playable for you adds to the sticker price.

Second hand is a way to go, they don't seem to hold their value as well as fours.  Mine is an American fretless made by an unnamed luthier on the west coast some years ago.  It was that or a fretted Musicman and the one I bought (£200 which was the same as the MM) just worked for me.

Have fun.

[lownote]

No one has said much about the other 5 - strung E-C.  This is a bit specialist but the high C string gives you access to some great sounding chords and soloing, as well as helping you avoid journeys way up high on the G string on classical pieces.  If you don't play high on a piece then mentally 'park' the C string and you've a 4 string with slightly closer string spacing and a bit more reach over the wider neck.   Or you could get a six....

Edited December 13, 2017 by lownote12

[neilp]

On 09/12/2017 at 20:40, ambient said:

My bass is a 7 string, which to many people is the work of the devil. I get comments quite regularly on Facebook, and occasionally live from people, generally bass players.

Remember that everything that can be played on a four stringed instrument, can also be played on a five. Though not the other way around without detuning or transposing. I'd quite like to see a four string player play this, without taking it up the octave and totally ruining it in the process.

And if you changed that ridiculous key signature to one sharp, you could play the whole thing as a rising line, which might be even better. After all, could be argued that the first bar-and -a- beat has been taken up an octave, totally ruining it...

[steve-bbb]

On 09/12/2017 at 15:03, Graham said:

I'd look for a 90s Yamaha TRB for that kind if budget.

Don't get hung up on scale length - you'll easily adapt from one to another.

good luck finding an early 90s TRB5p for that sort of price - they dont come up for sale often, they are snapped up as soon as they do, and for considerably more than 500

but you will find a bolt on neck  newer model TRB1005J for that sort of price and possibly even a few quid less

[lojo]

Although I would seem obvious to start on a 4 because that's a traditional electric bass , the 5s and 6s are instruments in their own right and can of course be learnt on .

Thats like saying you should master acoustic bass / guitar before going onto the more modern idea of electric 

 

[lojo]

Browsing this thread as I've just got Ray 35 In a trade , well coming soon 😀