krispn Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 4 hours ago, Al Krow said: Ah but it's about the journey as much as the destination, right? 😉 Alright Bilbo! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Osiris Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 10 minutes ago, krispn said: Alright Bilbo! Getting your B's and D's mixed up again? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dood Posted January 9, 2020 Share Posted January 9, 2020 3 hours ago, jacko said: I've found the paragraph on the Threshold control to be a bit confusing with what seem to be conflicting instructions..... THRESHOLD:This control determines the attack threshold at which the compression effect will be triggered. Basically, it is a sensitivity control with 0db being the least sensitive and -40db being the most sensitive. The more you turn the control clockwise, toward -40db (maximum sensitivity), the lower you are setting the threshold - and the softer (lower) the signal strength has to be before the compression effect is triggered. Think of it as a ceiling you are setting that the dynamic events in your playing cannot pass above. The setting of the THRESHOLD will likely want to be set differently for different types of playing styles and techniques. For example the THRESHOLD setting might want to be set lower (toward -40db) for finger-style playing than it would for thumbing or plucking where the attack transients and output from the strings is higher (assuming you want to trigger the compression on just the dynamic peaks). If you want the compression on all the time, set the THRESHOLD lower still and you will trigger it so that any input from your instrument will activate the compression. FWIW I have both at around 9pm and the light doesn't flicker much when I'm playing Seems a convoluted way to describe what the control does, compared to the excellent column about Compression in the January edition of Bass Guitar Magazine... /BlatantPlug 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Krow Posted January 9, 2020 Author Share Posted January 9, 2020 10 minutes ago, Osiris said: Getting your B's and D's mixed up again? Hah - you spotted that link far too quickly! Not sure whether your particular fetish has any linkage to baldness but, if so, it would explain a thing or two... But please let me assure you, good sir, that whilst the krispn and I may have exchanged electrical items and the occasional fluids over the years these have been limited to bass pedals and his own tasty beer. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 On 09/01/2020 at 07:27, Cuzzie said: how are the drummers snare/toms etc tuned and how do they play - Oh man I've dedicated so much time to getting really good at tuning drums, especially for recording. I can tune a kit from scratch in about 15 minutes with new heads top and bottom now, and it will sound absolutely massive. There's an old adage, stinky poo in stinky poo out, which is more true for drum sounds than anything else! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuzzie Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 (edited) 11 minutes ago, 51m0n said: Oh man I've dedicated so much time to getting really good at tuning drums, especially for recording. I can tune a kit from scratch in about 15 minutes with new heads top and bottom now, and it will sound absolutely massive. There's an old adage, stinky poo in stinky poo out, which is more true for drum sounds than anything else! Agreed - so important That’s Usain Bolt standards! Edited January 10, 2020 by Cuzzie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stub Mandrel Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 15 hours ago, Dood said: Seems a convoluted way to describe what the control does, compared to the excellent column about Compression in the January edition of Bass Guitar Magazine... /BlatantPlug My compressor keeps it simple... too simple? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 1 hour ago, Stub Mandrel said: My compressor keeps it simple... too simple? Not so much too simple as just obfuscated. What does sustain do? Is it a function of the threshold? Is it instead an input level (very similar to a threshold but subtly different). Or is it a function of the ratio? Or is it somewhere in between, all clever and stuff? In which case, how does that work exactly? And who decided on the release time/curve? I find these kind of compressors very frustrating! At least Joe Meek compressors have a ratio and a threshold, albeit named wrong, so they then need a manual that tells you what they are actually doing by using the normal name for it (slope == ration) - FFS! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E sharp Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 On 08/01/2020 at 18:51, 51m0n said: Not if he's still sporting a mullett.... He he . Last compression thread didn't end up well with him Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dood Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 (edited) 43 minutes ago, 51m0n said: Not so much too simple as just obfuscated. What does sustain do? Is it a function of the threshold? Is it instead an input level (very similar to a threshold but subtly different). Or is it a function of the ratio? Or is it somewhere in between, all clever and stuff? In which case, how does that work exactly? And who decided on the release time/curve? I find these kind of compressors very frustrating! At least Joe Meek compressors have a ratio and a threshold, albeit named wrong, so they then need a manual that tells you what they are actually doing by using the normal name for it (slope == ration) - FFS! and then you get a company whose compressor controls work in the opposite direction "to that of modern compressors". A certain, well known studio classic! Edited January 10, 2020 by Dood 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete.young Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 3 hours ago, E sharp said: He he . Last compression thread didn't end up well with him Yes. It was all to know a Vail. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted January 10, 2020 Share Posted January 10, 2020 5 hours ago, Dood said: and then you get a company whose compressor controls work in the opposite direction "to that of modern compressors". A certain, well known studio classic! You know what they say, "Less is more" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
steve-bbb Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 On 10/12/2017 at 21:08, Al Krow said: ...to play a bit more like James Jamerson (with no compression). but then aren't old dead lifeless strings a form of physical/mechanical compression? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuzzie Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 Plus going straight into the desk they would have added compression there, but you are right about a string with no zing not giving you a ting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmccombe7 Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 33 minutes ago, steve-bbb said: but then aren't old dead lifeless strings a form of physical/mechanical compression? Along with dead / lifeless bass players of course 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Krow Posted January 11, 2020 Author Share Posted January 11, 2020 2 hours ago, steve-bbb said: but then aren't old dead lifeless strings a form of physical/mechanical compression? Please, please don't give me any more excuses not to change my old bass strings 😁 Btw if Jamerson's playing could in any way be associated with a 'dead / lifeless' tone then I suspect we all need to give up right now! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 (edited) Jameson's bass tone definitely included being pushed hard to tape for saturation and tape compression.... And then there's the mastering compression after that.... Edited January 11, 2020 by 51m0n 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpondonBassed Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 (edited) As a hobby bassist without gigs (I haven't played to an audience other than OM nights since '87) I am finding this interesting. I was following the thread a while back and during its revival, it is particularly relevant to what I am doing at this time. Because I don't get exposure to the variety of gear that experienced members do, it's a bit of a hit and miss affair, knowing what I want and more to the point what I need from effects in general so I bought a Zoom B3 to dip my toe in the water, so to speak. It emulates a variety of effects and amplifier/cab combinations. I assume that these emulations are sufficiently faithful to the original as to give me a rough idea of how the real things might sound. Among the effects is a range of compressors. I am currently trying these out. There are five compressors included as listed below. Could anyone suggest which of these emulations would be worth spending most time with to get the hang of what compression is doing for me? 001 OptComp - This compressor is in the style of an APHEX Punch Factory 002 D Comp - This compressor is in the style of the MXR Dyna Comp 003 M Comp - This compressor provides a more natural sound (No real life equivalent referenced) 004 DualComp - This is a compressor which allows separate settings for the low frequency and high frequency range 005 160 Comp - This compressor is in the style of the dbx 160A Edited January 11, 2020 by SpondonBassed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dmccombe7 Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 3 minutes ago, SpondonBassed said: As a hobby bassist without gigs (I haven't played to an audience other than OM nights since '87) I am finding this interesting. I was following the thread a while back and during its revival, it is particularly relevant to what I am doing at this time. Because I don't get exposure to the variety of gear that experienced members do, it's a bit of a hit and miss affair, knowing what I want and more to the point what I need from effects in general so I bought a Zoom B3 to dip my toe in the water, so to speak. It emulates a variety of effects and amplifier/cab combinations. I assume that these emulations are sufficiently faithful to the original as to give me a rough idea of how the real things might sound. Among the effects is a range of compressors. I am currently trying these out. There are five compressors included as listed below. Could anyone suggest which of these emulations would be worth spending most time with to get the hang of what compression is doing for me? 001 OptComp - This compressor is in the style of an APHEX Punch Factory 002 D Comp - This compressor is in the style of the MXR Dyna Comp 003 M Comp - This compressor provides a more natural sound (No real life equivalent referenced) 004 DualComp - This is a compressor which allows separate settings for the low frequency and high frequency range 005 160 Comp - This compressor is in the style of the dbx 160A If an amp doesn't have a built in compressor like my Mesa head i use my Aphex Punch Factory pedal. I find it very simple to set up with led's indicating how much compression you are using (marked Drive on the pedal) and the output level which i set to equal volume when the peal is switched off. My Roland mfx GT6B has various compressors too but i just selected one from the list i recognised with the factory suggested settings and just add it as and where required. I haven't used the Roland in about 5yrs so can't remember any more details than that i'm afraid. Dave 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Krow Posted January 11, 2020 Author Share Posted January 11, 2020 Hopefully @Osiris will be along shortly... he had a Zoom B3 for many years and was a fan of a number of the comp sims on that pedal. He's also one of the more experienced comp users I've come across on my journeys so, fingers crossed, a good combination! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpondonBassed Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 3 minutes ago, Al Krow said: Hopefully @Osiris will be along shortly... ...if he can extract himself from the DoI topic, that is. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 (edited) Anyone interested in the compression used in Motown recordings check out this link, especially the box about the kit in snakepit https://www.soundonsound.com/people/four-tops-reach-out-ill-be-there-classic-tracks A whole lot of compression as a result of a tube console, tape and even available mics... Also the di that Jameson used, was a tube di... They also said used Fairchild compressors for mastering. Edited January 11, 2020 by 51m0n 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stub Mandrel Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 3 minutes ago, 51m0n said: Anyone interested in the compression used in Motown recordings check out this link, especially the box about the kit in snakepit https://www.soundonsound.com/people/four-tops-reach-out-ill-be-there-classic-tracks A whole lot of compression as a result of a tube console, tape and even available mics... Also the di that Jameson used, was a tube di... They also said used Fairchild compressors for mastering. According to the pedia of Wiki there's a style of compression known as 'motown style'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpondonBassed Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 (edited) 32 minutes ago, dmccombe7 said: If an amp doesn't have a built in compressor like my Mesa head i use my Aphex Punch Factory pedal. Both of my combos have built in compression. On the Laney it's a function of the gain control with an LED to indicate when it is working and no other means of adjustment other than an on/off button and the gain knob itself. The Ashdown has an on/off button and a dedicated knob. They're okay but I want to understand what's going on a bit better by playing with Threshold, Ratio and Level controls as these three seem to represent the main functions of a compressor. Edited January 11, 2020 by SpondonBassed 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted January 11, 2020 Share Posted January 11, 2020 25 minutes ago, Stub Mandrel said: According to the pedia of Wiki there's a style of compression known as 'motown style'. Yep it's a form of filtered parallel compression that acts as a kind of exciter, used almost exclusively on vocals IIRC. Dead easy to do in a DAW. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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