Car insurance for semi-pro musicians

[Tonteee]

IME, declining to quote is not the same as refusal of insurance.

[casapete]

44 minutes ago, T-Bay said:

I have often wondered about the ‘refused insurance’ question. If you go a comparison website quite often there will be companies that won’t insure you. And when I changed my car a couple of years ago I had to change my insurance company as the one I was with wouldn’t even quote for it (they have a cut off at 10 years old for some reason). Just wondering whether either of those would count as ‘refused insurance’. 

Interesting point.

I have been down as a musician on my car insurance for over 40 years ( semi pro and pro ) ,and during that time have had companies change their stance on whether to insure musicians or not, sometimes to decide at a later date they do want my custom after all.

I was with the AA for a few years who then out of the blue hiked up my payment to a stupidly high amount, something like six times higher than usual. Think it was their way of saying they didn’t want to insure a musician , without actually refusing to cover me. 

These days there are quite a few different choices when entering ‘musician’ in the occupation box. I’m down as one who plays ‘popular music’ ,  other options being classical, teacher and some more I can’t remember.

Edited December 12, 2017 by casapete

[steantval]

I have a rehearsal tomorrow evening with the band, I will ask the other three guys if they mention it to their car insurers and I will report back.

[T-Bay]

2 hours ago, Tonteee said:

IME, declining to quote is not the same as refusal of insurance.

That is how I have always taken it as well. So what would be a refusal I wonder?

[casapete]

Maybe a refusal is based on driving history, whereas a decline to quote is down to other stuff like ooccupation / age etc?

[leftybassman392]

6 minutes ago, casapete said:

Maybe a refusal is based on driving history, whereas a decline to quote is down to other stuff like ooccupation / age etc?

That sounds about right. A refusal to cover will most likely be specific to the proposer, whereas declining to quote will be to do with the risks the underwriter is prepared to cover and as such no reflection on the proposer individually.

[Pea Turgh]

Refused is basically you had insurance, put in a claim and they said no way. Like fraud, or doing something stupid. Not being quoted for is them not wanting to get involved in the first place.

You’d need business class, and make sure your gear is insured separately, as often contents cover on motor policies is a pitiful token gesture.

[steantval]

Had the band rehearsal tonight and asked the other three guys and none of them mention to their car insurers that they play in bands, they all found it rather odd that I asked the question.

[ambient]

It's been ages since I had car insurance. Does they ask about second jobs now when you get a quote? 

[casapete]

9 hours ago, ambient said:

It's been ages since I had car insurance. Does they ask about second jobs now when you get a quote? 

Mine did. Asked whether being a musician is my main source of income  ( I sometimes can’t believe that

either ) and if I have any other employment. 

[martthebass]

I think this is a minefield.  A couple of years ago I had a day off and went into my local town (Rotherham) to do some shopping.  My normal place of work was Scunthorpe - about 50 miles away from my local.  Somebody drove into the back of me, admitted liability, so I contacted my insurer.  I got the third degree on 'what was I doing in Rotherham', despite explanations I still got hit with a business insurance premium! 

Regarding playing, I don't currently declare but I do have business insurance so take this as being covered (after my whine above it's only about £5-10/year) for my peripatetic musical activities - I don't assume my gear is covered though!

 

[Blink]

Car insurance is usually based on Social Domestic and Pleasure use. This can normally be extended at minimum cost to cover use by the Policy Holder (not any named drivers) on their employers business. For most of us weekend warriors that should be more than sufficient to cover to and from the gig.

Insuring gear is always best done using a separate policy designed for the purpose and that will include cover for gear left in locked cars. Trying to extend home contents or car insurance to cover gear will, in my experience, lead to problems should you ever need to claim.

N

 

[bassjim]

hello everyone

 

so after reading this thread I called my insurance to clarify if they would cough up in the event ect

 

Mine was a home contents with the musical equipment bolted on as a package deal.

When I took out the policy some years ago (its since been on a auto roll over) it was as follows;

Covers my household things that are always in the house and my musical equipment which could be in or out the house and whilst traveling to and from where ever, if doing gigs or even , session work. Even covered for 30 days abroad.

At the time the salesman asked if I was pro so I said no its a weekend thing mostly as I now have a day job. He said ok we shall call that amuture musician. He then confirms that if my gear gets lost, stolen, broken by whatever , falling ceiling, over enthusiastic groupie ect then dont worry its all covered.

Great.

So I see someone here says they use Musicguard so I checked out the site, entered some details  and thought blimey that's a really good deal. Called them to check it out. They confirm that even though I'm really classed as a semi pro, (as in get paid) and I described openly and honestly the where whys ins and outs, all the gear is covered in the event of blah blah blah. 

Ok looks good.

So....

I call my insurance company to see if they want to try and match it before I cancel and go to Musicguard. They start the process of seeing where they can make a saving. This is when I find out that because I am "semi pro" they would not have paid out a thing as they will not cover semi pro. Thats why they listed "amuture". I told them that I explained exactly what was going on when I first took out the policy and made it clear that although its pretty much peanuts, I did get paid something. The sales guy at the time knew all this.

So all these years I'm thinking its all ok when actually no its not been ok and I could have been left high and dry had anything of happened. I've been ripped off!!!! They say thay cant comment or confirm  who said what at the time I took the policy out as it was now so long ago. Obviously. The bastards.

Am now with Musicguard for my musical equipment. Have found much better deals on line for household and contents. All in all am £10.00 a month better off once new household policy starts.

So kids....get the policies  out and check the small print. Even better call em up and get some straight forward answers like I did.

EG: I'm in a pub to play a gig. I go to the bar. I come back and ...bass is gone. Its been stolen. Is it or is it not covered? 

I drive home from a gig. Accident. Bass crushed but I'm ok. Is it or is it not covered?

I'm loading some gear into the van when....... and so on.

Musicguard answered my questions with a straight forward yes/ no. Mostly with a yes we would pay out. They will allow me to ad hoc a trip for up to 30 days in Europe. Good stuff.

[T-Bay]

4 minutes ago, bassjim said:

hello everyone

 

so after reading this thread I called my insurance to clarify if they would cough up in the event ect

 

Mine was a home contents with the musical equipment bolted on as a package deal.

When I took out the policy some years ago (its since been on a auto roll over) it was as follows;

Covers my household things that are always in the house and my musical equipment which could be in or out the house and whilst traveling to and from where ever, if doing gigs or even , session work. Even covered for 30 days abroad.

At the time the salesman asked if I was pro so I said no its a weekend thing mostly as I now have a day job. He said ok we shall call that amuture musician. He then confirms that if my gear gets lost, stolen, broken by whatever , falling ceiling, over enthusiastic groupie ect then dont worry its all covered.

Great.

So I see someone here says they use Musicguard so I checked out the site, entered some details  and thought blimey that's a really good deal. Called them to check it out. They confirm that even though I'm really classed as a semi pro, (as in get paid) and I described openly and honestly the where whys ins and outs, all the gear is covered in the event of blah blah blah. 

Ok looks good.

So....

I call my insurance company to see if they want to try and match it before I cancel and go to Musicguard. They start the process of seeing where they can make a saving. This is when I find out that because I am "semi pro" they would not have paid out a thing as they will not cover semi pro. Thats why they listed "amuture". I told them that I explained exactly what was going on when I first took out the policy and made it clear that although its pretty much peanuts, I did get paid something. The sales guy at the time knew all this.

So all these years I'm thinking its all ok when actually no its not been ok and I could have been left high and dry had anything of happened. I've been ripped off!!!! They say thay cant comment or confirm  who said what at the time I took the policy out as it was now so long ago. Obviously. The bastards.

Am now with Musicguard for my musical equipment. Have found much better deals on line for household and contents. All in all am £10.00 a month better off once new household policy starts.

So kids....get the policies  out and check the small print. Even better call em up and get some straight forward answers like I did.

EG: I'm in a pub to play a gig. I go to the bar. I come back and ...bass is gone. Its been stolen. Is it or is it not covered? 

I drive home from a gig. Accident. Bass crushed but I'm ok. Is it or is it not covered?

I'm loading some gear into the van when....... and so on.

Musicguard answered my questions with a straight forward yes/ no. Mostly with a yes we would pay out. They will allow me to ad hoc a trip for up to 30 days in Europe. Good stuff.

Not wanting to ask any personal details, but wondering what sort of ball park figures people are paying just to insure their kit?

[bassjim]

Musiguard : £2,500.00 = £9.00 a month . 

Previous rip off insurance = £18.00 a month

[ambient]

My instruments, outboard gear, MacBook etc are covered as through my MU membership. I get £2k free cover.

[T-Bay]

23 minutes ago, bassjim said:

Musiguard : £2,500.00 = £9.00 a month . 

Previous rip off insurance = £18.00 a month

That’s a big saving!

4 minutes ago, ambient said:

My instruments, outboard gear, MacBook etc are covered as through my MU membership. I get £2k free cover.

I looked at that a while back but I seem to recall that it was quite expensive if you just wanted the insurance side of it. Obviously a different matter if you use their other services.

[ambient]

2 minutes ago, T-Bay said:

That’s a big saving!

I looked at that a while back but I seem to recall that it was quite expensive if you just wanted the insurance side of it. Obviously a different matter if you use their other services.

I was paying £17 a month for my membership. I’ve used their other services,  I needed a DBS check done, they did that for me. They’ll sort out contracting issues too, and run regular workshops on everything from music mixing and mastering to teaching. This year my membership is just £20 because I’m a full time postgrad student, that’s a nice benefit of being a student ?.

[T-Bay]

9 minutes ago, ambient said:

I was paying £17 a month for my membership. I’ve used their other services,  I needed a DBS check done, they did that for me. They’ll sort out contracting issues too, and run regular workshops on everything from music mixing and mastering to teaching. This year my membership is just £20 because I’m a full time postgrad student, that’s a nice benefit of being a student ?.

It’s good value even at full price if you use any of the extras, I don’t think my level of playing and frequency of gigs (7 last year) really justify now but it may change in the future.

[steantval]

5 hours ago, bassjim said:

hello everyone

 

so after reading this thread I called my insurance to clarify if they would cough up in the event ect

 

Mine was a home contents with the musical equipment bolted on as a package deal.

When I took out the policy some years ago (its since been on a auto roll over) it was as follows;

Covers my household things that are always in the house and my musical equipment which could be in or out the house and whilst traveling to and from where ever, if doing gigs or even , session work. Even covered for 30 days abroad.

At the time the salesman asked if I was pro so I said no its a weekend thing mostly as I now have a day job. He said ok we shall call that amuture musician. He then confirms that if my gear gets lost, stolen, broken by whatever , falling ceiling, over enthusiastic groupie ect then dont worry its all covered.

Great.

So I see someone here says they use Musicguard so I checked out the site, entered some details  and thought blimey that's a really good deal. Called them to check it out. They confirm that even though I'm really classed as a semi pro, (as in get paid) and I described openly and honestly the where whys ins and outs, all the gear is covered in the event of blah blah blah. 

Ok looks good.

So....

I call my insurance company to see if they want to try and match it before I cancel and go to Musicguard. They start the process of seeing where they can make a saving. This is when I find out that because I am "semi pro" they would not have paid out a thing as they will not cover semi pro. Thats why they listed "amuture". I told them that I explained exactly what was going on when I first took out the policy and made it clear that although its pretty much peanuts, I did get paid something. The sales guy at the time knew all this.

So all these years I'm thinking its all ok when actually no its not been ok and I could have been left high and dry had anything of happened. I've been ripped off!!!! They say thay cant comment or confirm  who said what at the time I took the policy out as it was now so long ago. Obviously. The bastards.

Am now with Musicguard for my musical equipment. Have found much better deals on line for household and contents. All in all am £10.00 a month better off once new household policy starts.

So kids....get the policies  out and check the small print. Even better call em up and get some straight forward answers like I did.

EG: I'm in a pub to play a gig. I go to the bar. I come back and ...bass is gone. Its been stolen. Is it or is it not covered? 

I drive home from a gig. Accident. Bass crushed but I'm ok. Is it or is it not covered?

I'm loading some gear into the van when....... and so on.

Musicguard answered my questions with a straight forward yes/ no. Mostly with a yes we would pay out. They will allow me to ad hoc a trip for up to 30 days in Europe. Good stuff.

Hi ,

I think you may have misread the thread, we are not really discussing the gear, we are talking about car insurance, not what you are carrying inside of it.

I would assume most of us would know that the gear would either require a separate insurance or be listed as high value specified items on your home insurance, which are usually covered in the home and away from the home.

Edited December 14, 2017 by steantval

[PaulWarning]

3 hours ago, bassjim said:

hello everyone

 

so after reading this thread I called my insurance to clarify if they would cough up in the event ect

 

Mine was a home contents with the musical equipment bolted on as a package deal.

When I took out the policy some years ago (its since been on a auto roll over) it was as follows;

Covers my household things that are always in the house and my musical equipment which could be in or out the house and whilst traveling to and from where ever, if doing gigs or even , session work. Even covered for 30 days abroad.

At the time the salesman asked if I was pro so I said no its a weekend thing mostly as I now have a day job. He said ok we shall call that amuture musician. He then confirms that if my gear gets lost, stolen, broken by whatever , falling ceiling, over enthusiastic groupie ect then dont worry its all covered.

Great.

So I see someone here says they use Musicguard so I checked out the site, entered some details  and thought blimey that's a really good deal. Called them to check it out. They confirm that even though I'm really classed as a semi pro, (as in get paid) and I described openly and honestly the where whys ins and outs, all the gear is covered in the event of blah blah blah. 

Ok looks good.

So....

I call my insurance company to see if they want to try and match it before I cancel and go to Musicguard. They start the process of seeing where they can make a saving. This is when I find out that because I am "semi pro" they would not have paid out a thing as they will not cover semi pro. Thats why they listed "amuture". I told them that I explained exactly what was going on when I first took out the policy and made it clear that although its pretty much peanuts, I did get paid something. The sales guy at the time knew all this.

So all these years I'm thinking its all ok when actually no its not been ok and I could have been left high and dry had anything of happened. I've been ripped off!!!! They say thay cant comment or confirm  who said what at the time I took the policy out as it was now so long ago. Obviously. The bastards.

Am now with Musicguard for my musical equipment. Have found much better deals on line for household and contents. All in all am £10.00 a month better off once new household policy starts.

So kids....get the policies  out and check the small print. Even better call em up and get some straight forward answers like I did.

EG: I'm in a pub to play a gig. I go to the bar. I come back and ...bass is gone. Its been stolen. Is it or is it not covered? 

I drive home from a gig. Accident. Bass crushed but I'm ok. Is it or is it not covered?

I'm loading some gear into the van when....... and so on.

Musicguard answered my questions with a straight forward yes/ no. Mostly with a yes we would pay out. They will allow me to ad hoc a trip for up to 30 days in Europe. Good stuff.

if you've been doing auto rollover I'm not surprised your premiums are high, always always do a quick comparison site job to see if it's cheaper elsewhere, loyalty counts for nothing in the insurance world, of course if you've have been doing this I apologise.

[bassjim]

14 hours ago, PaulWarning said:

if you've been doing auto rollover I'm not surprised your premiums are high, always always do a quick comparison site job to see if it's cheaper elsewhere, loyalty counts for nothing in the insurance world, of course if you've have been doing this I apologise.

Well this has been my problem. Not checking and letting it go by. Its this thread,  that although was more about car insurance ect , that made me look into it. So thanks to the OP for bringing it up. I'd also advise anyone,if interested, that because your insurance says yes we cover things you take out of the house, I'd check the context of under what conditions.

[casapete]

Auto-renewal is nearly always dearer than swapping companies. Just lately though I've noticed a trend for the 

auto-renewal quote to be quite favourable for the first time, and then ( once they have your confidence) they assume

you won't check the deal the next time and hit you with a massive price hike. Price comparison sites are your friend. 

 

[PaulWarning]

5 minutes ago, casapete said:

Auto-renewal is nearly always dearer than swapping companies. Just lately though I've noticed a trend for the 

auto-renewal quote to be quite favourable for the first time, and then ( once they have your confidence) they assume

you won't check the deal the next time and hit you with a massive price hike. Price comparison sites are your friend. 

 

they've probably got some algorithm built into the system now that susses out those that change every year, I've been with the same car insurance company for 4 years now, always say I don't want auto renew though, unheard off a few years ago

[Monkey Steve]

On 14/12/2017 at 19:42, steantval said:

Hi ,

I think you may have misread the thread, we are not really discussing the gear, we are talking about car insurance, not what you are carrying inside of it.

I would assume most of us would know that the gear would either require a separate insurance or be listed as high value specified items on your home insurance, which are usually covered in the home and away from the home.

yes, this has gone off at a little tangent onto instrument cover, but I think it illustrates how insurers think about this issue, that it's not whether you regard yourself as a professional musician (because you don't cover your costs) but rather whether the insurer considers you to be engaging on business activity when you are driving to and from gigs (because you are being paid a few quid to play).

If you only have Social, Domestic & Pleasure cover then the insurer may well not regard you as being covered going to and from paying gigs.  Potentially this means that you are not insured and the Police can fine you for driving without insurance when they stop you at 2.00 am to do a random vehicle check.