"Hired Gun" A Must See on Netflix

[Bluewine]

Hired Gun, a fantastic documentary on Netflix.

I highly recommend it.

Let's talk about it.

Blue

[Skol303]

27 minutes ago, Bluewine said:

Hired Gun, a fantastic documentary on Netflix.

I highly recommend it.

Good call! I have it bookmarked but haven’t watched it yet. Will report back here when I do...

[Bluewine]

12 minutes ago, Skol303 said:

Good call! I have it bookmarked but haven’t watched it yet. Will report back here when I do...

You'll love it, I guarantee it.

Blue

[NJE]

I was slightly disappointed, but only slightly.

It was very much focussed on ‘rock players’ which is fine, then there seemed to be odd bits where Billy Joel’s ex band members laid out how he is basically a complete ar*sehole.

whilst I can appreciate Rudy Sarzo is a great player and seemed like a thoroughly decent chap, I couldn’t help but think they could have got someone more prolific to talk to from a bass point of view, Lee Sklar immediately sprang to mind when watching it, but what do I know.

A very nice insight into that world and nice to seen some great players get discussed (Phil X is a funny fella) but I would have preferred more from Steve Lukather for instance, and what about guys like Steve Gadd representing drummers? 

Just a few rambling thoughts but overall it was far more enjoyable than most of the dross out there at the moment.

Edited December 11, 2017 by NJE

[peteb]

I would have thought that Rudy Sarzo would have been prolific enough for you - he must have played with every American rock band still touring. I'm guessing that Jason Hook didn't have Lee Sklar or Steve Gadd's numbers but did have Rudy & Kenny Aranoff in his mobile. 

Would like to see this, but I don't have Netflix so it could be a while before I get a chance. I saw an interesting YouTube clip with Jason Hook (guitar player who part financed and produced the film) being interviewed by Nikki Sixx, talking about how it was made and some of the stories behind the production. 

[Bluewine]

Very few ever get a chance to enter this would.

Blue

[NJE]

7 hours ago, peteb said:

I would have thought that Rudy Sarzo would have been prolific enough for you - he must have played with every American rock band still touring. I'm guessing that Jason Hook didn't have Lee Sklar or Steve Gadd's numbers but did have Rudy & Kenny Aranoff in his mobile. 

Would like to see this, but I don't have Netflix so it could be a while before I get a chance. I saw an interesting YouTube clip with Jason Hook (guitar player who part financed and produced the film) being interviewed by Nikki Sixx, talking about how it was made and some of the stories behind the production. 

I think my opinion is slightly skewed by the fact that classic American rock hasn’t really featured much in my musical world. As such Rudy wouldn’t be the first person to pop into my head when I think of ‘hired guns’ in the music world.

You also make a valid point about being able to actually get certain people for the film and then they have to actually be a decent personality in front of a camera, it’s entertainment after all.

I did enjoy it though, and in fact I actually looked up what Rudy had done after the films because I thought he seemed like a thoroughly nice chap.

Edited December 12, 2017 by NJE

[peteb]

3 hours ago, NJE said:

I think my opinion is slightly skewed by the fact that classic American rock hasn’t really featured much in my musical world. As such Rudy wouldn’t be the first person to pop into my head when I think of ‘hired guns’ in the music world.

You also make a valid point about being able to actually get certain people for the film and then they have to actually be a decent personality in front of a camera, it’s entertainment after all.

I did enjoy it though, and in fact I actually looked up what Rudy had done after the films because I thought he seemed like a thoroughly nice chap.

Rudy has always been considered to be one of the good guys. I suppose that, unlike yourself, I have always been involved in that world albeit in a very small way compared those featured in the film. 

I suppose that another thing to consider is that Sklar, Gadd and co are primarily studio session guys, although I know that LS does like to be out on the road. Most of the players featured are primarily known for being a sideman in live touring bands (rather than for recording). I understand that these are two different worlds, more so than you might think. 

[jazzmanb]

1 hour ago, peteb said:

Rudy has always been considered to be one of the good guys. I suppose that, unlike yourself, I have always been involved in that world albeit in a very small way compared those featured in the film. 

I suppose that another thing to consider is that Sklar, Gadd and co are primarily studio session guys, although I know that LS does like to be out on the road. Most of the players featured are primarily known for being a sideman in live touring bands (rather than for recording). I understand that these are two different worlds, more so than you might think. 

Agree,some are available to all for sessions and some are more unofficial touring members

[Steve Browning]

Just finished watching it. Aside from the bassists (who else) I'm not sure I've seen so much over-playing in my entire life.

[Bluewine]

58 minutes ago, Steve Browning said:

Just finished watching it. Aside from the bassists (who else) I'm not sure I've seen so much over-playing in my entire life.

Did you like it or get anything out of it?

I think for anyone who has ever thought about persuing or is persuing performance as a career. I did.

I actually know the guy that replaced Liberty Devito pretty well.

Blue

[Steve Browning]

I liked it because it was music based. I'm not sure I got anything out of it particularly. You lose one gig and you consider your options, that would seem pretty obvious. Similarly, I know only too well how important it is to be able to get along with the other guys in the band/touring party because you're together off stage for much longer than you are on-stage.

It did underline the element of luck involved (playing ability being a given in that world). The luck is seemingly how you break into that clique in the first place.

I imagine there are other cases similar to Billy Joel so not too sure why he was singled out but he didn't come across well.

[Bluewine]

12 hours ago, Steve Browning said:

I liked it because it was music based. I'm not sure I got anything out of it particularly. You lose one gig and you consider your options, that would seem pretty obvious. Similarly, I know only too well how important it is to be able to get along with the other guys in the band/touring party because you're together off stage for much longer than you are on-stage.

It did underline the element of luck involved (playing ability being a given in that world). The luck is seemingly how you break into that clique in the first place.

I imagine there are other cases similar to Billy Joel so not too sure why he was singled out but he didn't come across well.

2 points, I know Billy's current drummer and I understand Billy is very generous to his sidemen.

I think breaking into the upper segments of the hired gun arena back in the 70s was different. The criteria to get in was different.

Today many hired guns are recruited from schools like Berklee and Juliard.

I think Jeff Beck found Tal at Juliard.

Blue

Edited December 18, 2017 by Bluewine

[Bluewine]

I get where Alice is coming from when he says;

"I don't have time for 2nd string guys"

Blue

[Bluewine]

12 hours ago, Steve Browning said:

I liked it because it was music based. I'm not sure I got anything out of it particularly. You lose one gig and you consider your options, that would seem pretty obvious. Similarly, I know only too well how important it is to be able to get along with the other guys in the band.

Even at the local level it's important.

Ever bring a guy into a band and you notice after the 1st couple of gigs he only packs up his own gear and leaves.

Not cool.

Off topic:

Pick of me in 1969 playing my Gibson EB-3.

Nobody can tell me I'm not "hood" 😂

Blue

Edited December 18, 2017 by Bluewine

[Steve Browning]

9 hours ago, Bluewine said:

2 points, I know Billy's current drummer and I understand Billy is very generous to his sidemen.

I think breaking into the upper segments of the hired gun arena back in the 70s was different. The criteria to get in was different.

Today many hired guns are recruited from schools like Berklee and Juliard.

I think Jeff Beck found Tal at Juliard.

Blue

That's depressing. Not sure why they'd take education over real world experience. Maybe the pool is larger but I would actively avoid students. I am probably being a bit harsh but my view of music students is that you can't be taught what isn't instinctive.

[Bluewine]

4 hours ago, Steve Browning said:

That's depressing. Not sure why they'd take education over real world experience. Maybe the pool is larger but I would actively avoid students. I am probably being a bit harsh but my view of music students is that you can't be taught what isn't instinctive.

I get where your coming from. I'm " old school'" and remember the days when if you were really good and would take risks anything could happen.

I believe those days have been gone for decades.

We now live in the time of the bedroom virtuosos. Many talented brilliant musicians don't want to gig or couldn't  even be bothered with the dated concept of being in a band.

Blue

[Mastodon2]

I just watched this, I enjoyed it despite not being into any of the music that was featured in it. It seems that the barrier for entry to be a rock session guitarist is low, if the sloppy, noisy rock licks in the jam songs were anything to go by, my ears were worn out from pitchy pentatonic bends by the end. Steve Lukather and Steve Vai were the two guys who could have really done with more screen time, but I suppose it wasn't a documentary about being a good musician, it was a documentary about being a musician for famous bands / frontmen.

Alice Cooper came across as a decent guy, Billy Joel came across as a total knob. I suppose being swindled out of millions and divorced a few times could do that. 

 

Definitely worth a watch if you're into rock music and not a bad way to kill 90 minutes if you like music but don't care much about rock. Some of the insights are interesting if not particularly profound - you play for a famous guy, you tour the world, you get sacked out of the blue and go back to painting houses to make ends meet until the next gig comes along.

[DJpullchord]

As above.

Entertaining 90 mins. I do love a bit of fretwank though.

[dave_bass5]

Stumbled across it last night. Not sure i really enjoyed it as much as i hoped. Too much of one genre for my liking, and too much focus on those with a grudge against Billy J. Where were the funk brothers/Wrecking crew etc. 

Ive been enjoying Phil X’s playing recently, but thought he was a bit full of himself in real life and, well I guess you have to be in that world. 

I guess i was just expecting a more border insight, still entertaining though. 

20 feet from stardom is another good film, this one is about backing (or back up ) vocalists. 

[Skol303]

Just watched it and really enjoyed it. Yeah these guys and girls tend to overplay, but that's their job. They're hired to entertain. Session musicians on steroids

I also strongly recommend the Wrecking Crew documentary, also on Netflix I think. Similar idea but a different time period/ genre.

Anyway cheers Blue for the tip off.

Edited December 19, 2017 by Skol303

[Bluewine]

18 hours ago, Steve Browning said:

That's depressing. Not sure why they'd take education over real world experience. Maybe the pool is larger but I would actively avoid students. I am probably being a bit harsh but my view of music students is that you can't be taught what isn't instinctive.

I get where your coming from. I'm " old school'" and remember the days when if you were really good and would take risks anything could happen.

I believe those days have been gone for decades.

We now live in the time of the bedroom virtuosos. Many talented brilliant musicians don't want to gig or couldn't  even be bothered with the dated concept of being in a band.

Blue

[Bluewine]

For those who have watched it 

The lady guitarist that got the gig with Alice didn't get it on her musianship alone. Very attractive 

But I guess that goes for anyone trying to score a major rock gig. I've heard that Prince rejected a lot of guys because they didn't have the right look.

Blue

Blue

[miles'tone]

Thanks Blue I enjoyed that. The main thing I learnt from it was that I'm now glad I didn't make it. I really don't belong in that world. Massive props to those who dived in and managed to swim.

[Skol303]

On 18/12/2017 at 20:44, Bluewine said:

Pick of me in 1969 playing my Gibson EB-3.

Wow, that hair!

Very cool pic.