Newbie question about Speakon cables

[XoSo]

Sorry if this is a daft question but I am returning to bass after many years and equipment has changed for me out of all recognition. I am about to buy an Ampeg head which I want to mate in the short term to an old Fender 4x10 cab that I already possess. What concerns me is that the ampeg head has a speakon connector, which is something I've never even seen or heard of before, but the input on the old Fender cab is just for  the normal 1/4 jack that all cabs and amps used to connect with. Does this mean I cannot hook the two up together or is there such a thing as a cable with a speakon plug on one and a jack on the other (or indeed some sort of adapter)?

[XoSo]

panic over. just discovered the head has a speaker AND a quarter inch input so I presume I can use either/or?

[Japhet]

You can use either speaker output on the back of the amp to go to the cab. You can also get any sort of cable configuration off ebay. If it's a valve head, make absolutely sure you have the cabinet connected to the head before you switch on.

Edited December 13, 2017 by Japhet

[BigRedX]

Ideally you should be using Speakon connectors for all your amp to cab wiring. It's a more robust connector capable of carrying the sorts of currents that modern high-wattage amps put out, plus it is a locking connector so you won't get any problems with cables pulling out of their sockets and potentially shorting out.

If you need good quality speaker cables making up OBBM here on Basschat is the man to contact.

[casapete]

+1 for OBBM's stuff.

£17 for a cable with speakon & jack connectors that will last a lifetime. http://bassic-bits.co.uk/

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

You'd be best off to replace the 1/4" in the cab with Speakon, or have it done for you. 1/4" is fine in its original intended application, telephone switchboards, but where speakers are concerned there's nothing about them to recommend.

[Treb]

5 hours ago, Bill Fitzmaurice said:

You'd be best off to replace the 1/4" in the cab with Speakon, or have it done for you. 1/4" is fine in its original intended application, telephone switchboards, but where speakers are concerned there's nothing about them to recommend.

This way nobody can be tempted to ever hookup an instrument cable...

[XoSo]

thanks for all the comments guys. And particularly for recommending OBBM. It's so weird, he must have been making cables for a few years because I've just checked my old 1/4 cable that was hooking the Fender cab up to a HH head and it's one of his  -well it has a bassicbits.co.uk sticker on it anyway. I think I will get a speakon to 1/4 from him. The advice to change the 1/4 input to a speakon on the cab is a good shout but I only intend to use it for a short while until I upgrade to an ampeg or barefaced cab

[Chienmortbb]

40 minutes ago, XoSo said:

thanks for all the comments guys. And particularly for recommending OBBM. It's so weird, he must have been making cables for a few years because I've just checked my old 1/4 cable that was hooking the Fender cab up to a HH head and it's one of his  -well it has a bassicbits.co.uk sticker on it anyway. I think I will get a speakon to 1/4 from him. The advice to change the 1/4 input to a speakon on the cab is a good shout but I only intend to use it for a short while until I upgrade to an ampeg or barefaced cab

Are you sure the Amoeg will be an upgrade? Seriously though Bill is right that many jacks are rated at 0.5 amps. That is  3 watts into 8 ohms and 1 watt into 4 ohms. Some good jacks are good for higher current/power but you can not be sure what rating either a cable or amp/ cap has. Speakons have a minimum of 20A or 3200 watts into 8 ohms and 1600 into 4 ohms. 

Finally a well known amp maker is convinced that that jack leads cause more power amp failures than anything else.

 

 

[XoSo]

Am I sure the Ampeg will be an upgrade? Time will tell .  The Fender cab I have is a big old thing from (I suspect) the 90s. It was probably designed for guitar rather than bass, weighs a ton and takes up half my small office/practice room. It's complete overkill for what I need, which is just home playing at the moment whilst I relearn bass (had a 30 year break). I would much rather a modern, light, compact 2x10 or 1x12 cab but who knows, perhaps the Fender cab will sound fantastic and I'll learn to live with its size.

[casapete]

Sounds like a plan ^^^^

Incidentally, whilst Speakon connections are undoubtedly a vast improvement on 1/4 " jacks, before they were around we did somehow

manage to use our SVT rigs etc 

 

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

I once managed with a '63 Chevrolet. I wouldn't want to do so again.

[fleabag]

Same here William.

I wouldnt want that Ford Anglia again, that i once owned.

I've had bass cabs with jack sockets and immediately change them for Speakons.  Its worth the effort, even if you have to ask someone to sort it

[Dan Dare]

If  go for Speakons, make sure you use genuine Neutrik ones. The cheap copies are not as good and some don't mate with the real thing, despite claims from manufacturers that they do.

[BigRedX]

17 hours ago, casapete said:

Incidentally, whilst Speakon connections are undoubtedly a vast improvement on 1/4 " jacks, before they were around we did somehow

manage to use our SVT rigs etc 

But that was from the days when an instrument amp rated at over 100W was a very rare beast indeed. Times have moved on, and now when 300W seems to be the entry level for a gig-worthy bass amp, it makes far more sense to go with an updated and up-rated connector.

[casapete]

23 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

But that was from the days when an instrument amp rated at over 100W was a very rare beast indeed. Times have moved on, and now when 300W seems to be the entry level for a gig-worthy bass amp, it makes far more sense to go with an updated and up-rated connector.

Of course, totally agree.

However, let's not forget that before the Speakon was introduced in the late 1980's, 1/4" jack ( and occasionally XLR) sockets were

used by everyone, including big pieces of kit (200/300 watts) manufactured by Ampeg, Marshall, Sunn, SWR, GK etc.

Was just making the point for the OP though, that using a jack connection on one end of a speaker lead for his purposes is not going to be a problem for him.

[bazzbass]

I have never heard of a fire or blown equipment from using instrument cable to connect amp to cab. Just sayin the hype is usually originated by the manufacturer.

 

I have speaker cables. Some are thinner than my instrument cables so what gives there?

[Dan Dare]

If you do use jacks, Neutrik make a speaker jack that will accept thick speaker cables.

[casapete]

3 hours ago, bazzbass said:

I have never heard of a fire or blown equipment from using instrument cable to connect amp to cab. Just sayin the hype is usually originated by the manufacturer.

 

I have speaker cables. Some are thinner than my instrument cables so what gives there?

Advice from Fender on using guitar leads for speaker connections -

If you use an instrument cable as a speaker cable, you’re probably OK at low signal levels. At high signal levels, though, trouble brews—all that amp power attempts to flow through the instrument cable’s too-small conductor. The unhappy result is that a lot of amp power is converted to heat and never even reaches the speakers. You get reduced speaker output, some probable distortion and, in extreme situations, heat-induced cable or cable connector failure. And you definitely don’t want your amp overheating.

Rest of the article here -

http://www2.fender.com/experience/tech-talk/instrument-cables-speaker-cables-arent-interchangeable/

[chris_b]

On 12/15/2017 at 13:35, casapete said:

However, let's not forget that before the Speakon was introduced in the late 1980's, 1/4" jack ( and occasionally XLR) sockets were

used by everyone, including big pieces of kit (200/300 watts) manufactured by Ampeg, Marshall, Sunn, SWR, GK etc.

Was just making the point for the OP though, that using a jack connection on one end of a speaker lead for his purposes is not going to be a problem for him.

+1

It's about 15 years since I switched to Speakon leads but 1/4" jack plugs always worked well in the past and will be fine to use today.

[stevie]

And as we all know, if something has worked well in the past it is bound to work well today. It's only logical, in'it?

[BigRedX]

Bu as I said previously in the past amps were considerably less powerful, and jack plugs and sockets were (and still are) fine for 100W and less.

These days I would consider any new bass amp or cab that wasn't fitted with Speakons as a serious piece of kit.

[stevie]

Actually, my comment was tongue-in-cheek, BigRed. It's a logical fallacy that something must work in the future if it worked in the past.

[Bill Fitzmaurice]

7 hours ago, bazzbass said:

I have never heard of a fire or blown equipment from using instrument cable to connect amp to cab. Just sayin the hype is usually originated by the manufacturer

I have, though that's not what the thread is about. The issue in this case is using 1/4" phone plugs for speakers. That choice was made by Leo Fender in the 1950s, when 50 watts was a large amp, SS didn't exist, and there was no such thing as a connector specifically designed for the job. The deficiencies of 1/4" connections for speakers are well documented. If you're attitude is 'they've always worked for me' consider the man who jumped off a fifty story building who was heard to say as he passed by open windows on the way down "So far so good".

[XoSo]

Never realised this topic was going to be such a hot potato 

Anyway, ordered a speakon to quarter cable from OBBM and it arrived in next to no time and top quality as always. Can thoroughly recommend him to anyone.

Just to throw the cat amongst the pigeons though I was reading through the quick start guide that came with  my Ampeg PF-500 and here's a curious thing for you. The Ampeg has both a speakon and a quarter jack input on it. In the hook up diagrams they recommend the standard set up should be speakon to speakon and also daisy-chaining using speakon as well. But they also show the possibility of a parallel setup with speakon to speakon connecting the first cab and quarter jack to quarter jack connecting the second cab. Now I'm guessing that with two cabs connected they feel the load to the second cab will be low enough to get away with quarter jack connections but surely if it is such a no-no Ampeg  should have put two speakons on the amp instead of a speakon and a quarter?