best value DAW

[ambient]

5 hours ago, Hellzero said:

Macs crash as often as Windows based machines, Apple had simply a way better marketing service : they even convinced us that we all needed useless iPads... 

I'm possibly tempting fate here, but I have never had an occasion when Logic Pro has crashed. I even use it live.

[Crawford13]

Bit late to the party here, but as a first DAW it’s worth looking at Mixcraft if your running Windows. It’s got a very easy learning curve and is fully featured. Plus it doesn’t cost a lot.

[Al Krow]

On 19/12/2017 at 16:16, Skol303 said:

I've tried Cubase, Logic, Reaper, Ableton and Reason. I've settled with Reason because it best caters for how I like to work - I love its emulation of analog routing; I find it the most intuitive DAW to use and it feels the most like 'play time' rather than 'work time', which is important for me. But it's more expensive at £230, which might be overkill if you just want something for jotting down ideas.

 

On 21/12/2017 at 08:17, charic said:

Cubase, Cakewalk, Reaper - Unintuitive and restricts my creative flow

Protools - For me, this is by far the best for recording and basic edits, my current DAW (now available monthly if you have an iLok)

Reason - Incredibly intuitive and creative, lends itself really well towards the creative process.  Definitely my favourite for writing!  Unfortunately I don't have access to it anymore

Logic - Absolutely brilliant DAW, probably the best "all rounder" for me.  Recording is intuitive enough (although I prefer Pro Tools in this regard) and writing isn't "hindered" although it isn't as good as Reason in this regard.  Mixing and editing is it's strongest suit and the workflow is/was overall quite simple.

For me I need to make a "one off" decision on which DAW to get because this will be about investing a limited amount of spare time (on top of family, a busy full time job, two gigging bands and wanting to improve my bass playing technique!) on getting up to speed on a DAW and bearing in mind I'm no software guru. So I'd rather spend a bit extra and get something that I should be very happy with / won't go too far wrong from the 'off'. Kinda oddly, because of the time investment involved, it's actually a bigger decision for me than getting / trading a bass costing two or three times as much, as I know I can always try the bass out and get a pretty good idea if it's for me pretty quickly or indeed move it on in due course. So apologies guys if I've been agonising over this for too long!

Of the possible choices, I can't go with Logic because I'm not prepared to buy an Apple Mac so I can use it 

Reaper was my leading contender prior to this (very helpful) thread but I'm sensing from comments that it's not necessarily the most intuitive from those of you who have tried out a number of DAWs?

It seems like both mods quoted above do a LOT of recording and creative writing and have also tried out ALL of the leading contenders. Reason appears in both your "Top 2". That is starting to sound like the 'right answer' for me, for the reasons you've set out, and I'm 90% there (I appreciate it's going to be more expensive than Reaper). So I guess my final Q before taking the plunge is has anyone tried out Reason and NOT found it to their liking, and if so why?

PS on a separate point @Skol303 I read you had done 23 recordings / remixes this year on the How Many Gigs thread - so if you fancy uploading a couple of your favourites of the year, I'd love to hear!

[lurksalot]

It's not one of @Skol303 mixes but I think his current favourite Reaper mix  😂😂

 

 

[Skol303]

2 hours ago, Al Krow said:

PS on a separate point @Skol303 I read you had done 23 recordings / remixes this year on the How Many Gigs thread - so if you fancy uploading a couple of your favourites of the year, I'd love to hear!

Hard to pick favorites! But I won competitions with both of these...

http://www.soundcloud.com/enterwolfsaga/keep-dancing-skol-remix

https://www.indabamusic.com/opportunities/conrad-clifton-nitemare-remix-contest/submissions/a0663a9c-279e-11e7-8fab-0ee95250b769

Don’t use these to make a judgement about whether or not to opt for Reason, of course. All DAWs ultimately sound the same, all things being equal. I’d probably sound the same on Logic, Reaper or whatever. Just might take me longer to get there  

EDIT to say you can demo Reason before you commit to buying it. I’d strongly recommend doing that and trying out some ‘beginners’ tutorials on YouTube before you take the plunge with that or any DAW.

...no rush, but Reason currently has a $100 discount until the end of the year.

Edited December 31, 2017 by Skol303

[51m0n]

I don't really like Reason

It's all too much GUI which is just a pretty distraction for me - and I design GUIs for a living 😆

 

When sound engineering I'm interested in one thing, the sound.

I have no need for a DAW that tries too hard to look like hardware, that's pointless. 

I need a tool that is extremely versatile, has no built in limits other than the power of the machine, and that let's me experiment with creative routing to achieve unusual ideas easily.

I also don't want any cpu cycles wasted on anyything unnecessary at all...

Edited January 1, 2018 by 51m0n

[Dad3353]

18 minutes ago, 51m0n said:

I don't really like Reason...

Yeah, but you're good, innit..! 

Although, I agree (without being good, or course...) that the stuff I use a DAW for is not the same as when I'm playing 'live', or noodling around. To me, the DAW is an extension of my thinking, and the Reason interface, good though it is, doesn't help me; in fact quite the opposite. I don't want to be thinking of how to plug stuff in; I want to think about how to create the sound or effect I'm after, and my mind doesn't run in terms of boxes, switches and dials. How does it run..? Dunno, mate; no idea at all. We each have different brain patterns, I suppose. I'm not helping, am I..? 

Edited January 1, 2018 by Dad3353

[Skol303]

1 hour ago, 51m0n said:

I don't really like Reason

It's all too much GUI which is just a pretty distraction for me - and I design GUIs for a living 😆

When sound engineering I'm interested in one thing, the sound.

I have no need for a DAW that tries too hard to look like hardware, that's pointless. 

See I’m the opposite - maybe because I work in graphic design for a living, so I like things to look pretty

I find Reason’s interface much more intuitive to use than other DAWs; and that in turn benefits my workflow. It’s fun... and that’s a rare quality in any software.

For the same reason I tend to avoid Waves plugins, for example. Sure they do the job (I own their mastering suite), but shifting little grey faders on little grey boxes just feels... dull. If I can achieve the exact same result with a GUI that looks great - such as the Softube plugins - then that’s going to be my choice every time.

PS: surprised you found Reason to be CPU heavy. Not sure which version you’ve tested, but IMO it’s one of the leanest DAWs available. Perhaps not as lean as Reaper mind you... last time I used that it could run comfortably from a USB stick!

[Dad3353]

8 minutes ago, Skol303 said:

...it could run comfortably from a USB stick!

Although, to be fair, a USB stick doesn't help much in the way of CPU anyway. 

[51m0n]

On 1/1/2018 at 17:54, Skol303 said:

See I’m the opposite - maybe because I work in graphic design for a living, so I like things to look pretty

I find Reason’s interface much more intuitive to use than other DAWs; and that in turn benefits my workflow. It’s fun... and that’s a rare quality in any software.

For the same reason I tend to avoid Waves plugins, for example. Sure they do the job (I own their mastering suite), but shifting little grey faders on little grey boxes just feels... dull. If I can achieve the exact same result with a GUI that looks great - such as the Softube plugins - then that’s going to be my choice every time.

PS: surprised you found Reason to be CPU heavy. Not sure which version you’ve tested, but IMO it’s one of the leanest DAWs available. Perhaps not as lean as Reaper mind you... last time I used that it could run comfortably from a USB stick!

Each to their own

I think that for me there is very little added by virtual wobbling wires and a pretend rack space. There is much more to be gained from an understanding of I/O matrices for rapid routing.

Being a software engineer I am very at home dealing with virtual representations of non-real concepts that are logical representations of flows of data within a piece of software, which is kind of a long winded way of saying I don't need to see things made so pretty for the sake of it when a simple table will actually make my life easier by making things quicker and more clear.

That's not to say that I think Reaper is ugly, it isn't, it's just not unduly and unnecessarily pretty for the sake of it, animations use up cpu, and if they are only for the sake of prettiness rather than presenting functionality simply and effectively.

[51m0n]

On 1/1/2018 at 16:35, Dad3353 said:

Yeah, but you're good, innit..! 

You're too kind

[51m0n]

On 1/1/2018 at 18:04, Dad3353 said:

Although, to be fair, a USB stick doesn't help much in the way of CPU anyway. 

As long as your program is entirely loaded into memory then no, but that in and of itself requires a program that is small enough to exist in memory in total, and doesn't rely on reading/writing to the source drive in use...

[Al Krow]

4 hours ago, 51m0n said:

Each to their own

I think that for me there is very little added by virtual wobbling wires and a pretend rack space. There is much more to be gained from an understanding of I/O matrices for rapid routing.

Being a software engineer I am very at home dealing with virtual representations of non-real concepts that are logical representations of flows of data within a piece of software, which is kind of a long winded way of saying I don't need to see things made so pretty for the sake of it when a simple table will actually make my life easier by making things quicker and more clear.

That's not to say that I think Reaper is ugly, it isn't, it's just not unduly and unnecessarily pretty for the sake of it, animations use up cpu, and if they are only for the sake of prettiness rather than presenting functionality simply and effectively.

Hmmm back to life, back to reapality? 

Some very good points. It's also cheaper and does have a LOT of fans amongst our community. Right, Reaper it is!

[xgsjx]

I used to have Reason up until 2.5.  Found it a very easy DAW to use & like Skol303, I loved that you can flip it round & route cables.

I've had several DAWs since then & if you have a Mac, then the best VFM DAW is Logic.  You get a bunch of brilliant synths, drum machines & effects as well as a shed load of loops & samples.  All for £150!
I'm not saying it's the best DAW (though it is my fave), the best is the one that works for You.

[Sibob]

I think I'd sum up my preferences with the following table:

Mac
1. Logic
2. Reaper

Windows
1. Reaper
2. Cubase

Si

[xgsjx]

Depending on what you're using it for, I'm not sure that Reaper is better value than Reason.  The DAW itself is just $60, but Reason does come with a load of instruments & effects, Reaper doesn't.  I think it comes with 2 instruments.

[Dad3353]

On the other hand, one doesn't have to buy instruments at all, as there are so many excellent Vsts out there for free. A great many wonderful libraries too, of course, at all price points, but one is not generally limited solely to what comes with the DAW; expanding one's sounds need cost very little indeed.

I started out with a very low budget, and got by for several years (with Reaper, but that's irrelevant, really...) with no expenditure at all. I've made up for the difference, of course, having since bought (too..?) many instruments  ..! 

Edited January 4, 2018 by Dad3353

[Al Krow]

2 hours ago, Sibob said:

I think I'd sum up my preferences with the following table:

Mac
1. Logic
2. Reaper

Windows
1. Reaper
2. Cubase

Si

Hah! Si that for a DAW newbie is what is just I need. Nice clear recommendation. I need to stop dithering now and being tossed like some leaf in a storm with each passing gust of wind. Let's be honest, I'm not going to go too far wrong with Reaper am I? Decision made. Hooray!  (Note to self - avoid looking at this thread again and changing my mind for the 23rd time...)

[charic]

6 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Hah! Si that for a DAW newbie is what is just I need. Nice clear recommendation. I need to stop dithering now and being tossed like some leaf in a storm with each passing gust of wind. Let's be honest, I'm not going to go too far wrong with Reaper am I? Decision made. Hooray!  (Note to self - avoid looking at this thread again and changing my mind for the 23rd time...)

As most have free trials there's no need to make a decision  just decide which you want to try first!

[Al Krow]

Get thee behind me, Charic!  

It's a trade off between time & effort vs getting up to speed on something decent. And most of my spare time will be spent on the fretboard and composition rather than recording

...and I  just need to get started. @Sibob and @51m0n strike me as two very experienced guys, who both seem happy with Reaper, and loads of other folk have given the thumbs up to Reaper. It is also very good value. I almost saw Reason, but my judgement has since been clouded... 

[charic]

Reaper is extremely capable  as long as you get on with the workflow you'll be just fine.  At these levels we're talking about a preference in how you work rather than quality IMHO (unless you move into ProTools HD territory which is a whole different realm)

[Mornats]

2 hours ago, charic said:

Reaper is extremely capable  as long as you get on with the workflow you'll be just fine.  At these levels we're talking about a preference in how you work rather than quality IMHO (unless you move into ProTools HD territory which is a whole different realm)

I'd have thought you could make quality music in any DAW. The difference is just how easy the path is to get there for you. 

[Mcgiver69]

17 minutes ago, Mornats said:

I'd have thought you could make quality music in any DAW. The difference is just how easy the path is to get there for you. 

Exactly, all that matters is if the DAW provides all the tools needed for the musician to make music.

[Skol303]

3 hours ago, Al Krow said:

Get thee behind me, Charic!  

It's a trade off between time & effort vs getting up to speed on something decent. And most of my spare time will be spent on the fretboard and composition rather than recording

...and I  just need to get started. @Sibob and @51m0n strike me as two very experienced guys, who both seem happy with Reaper, and loads of other folk have given the thumbs up to Reaper. It is also very good value. I almost saw Reason, but my judgement has since been clouded... 

Again, people always strongly recommend whatever tools they themselves use (myself included). Basses, amps, DAW software, whatever... we like to feel that whatever we’ve chosen for ourselves is the right choice

Always, the truth is that what best suits one person might not equally suit another. The comments in this thread as are testament to that. Basing your decision on “experienced guys” might not be as savvy as it seems if you’re an outright beginner and - like me - aren’t keen on the learning curve associated with some DAWs.

Now that you’ve missed all the holiday sales (!)... my recommendation would be to demo the DAWs that sound like a good fit before you commit to buying any one of them. This is advice I wish I’d heeded myself many years ago when I started out making computer music in my late teens! It would have saved me time trying to learn softwares that I ultimately wasn’t so compatible with.

Try one DAW out per evening, or whatever, even for just an hour. You’ll get a much better impression of the differences between them that way.

Or just dive in on impulse like everyone else!

(PS: Reaper is no bad place to do so)

Good luck, have fun and don’t forget to share your creations here once you’re up and running...

[lurksalot]

I started from scratch with reaper , I probably still haven't got a defined 'workflow' and as a strict hobbyist , I feel the OP pain, there is no way I would be auditioning different DAW's to pick one, having gone through the DAW learning curve from scratch , even the language being used got me for a while