best value DAW

[Mornats]

Another Reaper user here and yeah, it's got fantastic value for money. If you're on a Mac then I also think Logic Pro X is good value at £199 (it used to be £140 which I always thought was a typo!). For the calibre of the product, 200 squids is still good value in my mind.

I've been contemplating trying a move to Cubase purely for its much praised midi capabilities as midi is what I'm doing more of right now. However I know that I can persevere with learning how to use ReaScripts to get some nice midi stuff going on in Reaper and I just can't bring myself to a) rely on an iLok - no thanks, I'm not having my ability to create music be at the mercy of one of those and neither do I want to have one stuck in the back of whichever computer I'm using, and I don't like having the burden of copy protection being placed on the consumer who's shelled out hundreds on the software whist those with a cracked version don't require one and b) it's around £400 for the version that's as unlimited as Reaper. That's a big chunk of cash!

I also really like the look of the interface on FL Studio (and their lifetime upgrades policy). I've seen Alex Moukala use it in his videos and it just looks really nice. I've no idea how it compares to Reaper or Cubase though. It's around £140 which is a nice price.

There's also the final point:

You'll create music better, quicker and more intuitively with the software you know well than with "better" software that you don't know how to use. 

And for me there's just so much in Reaper that just works for me it would take me a long time to write it down and check that the other software does it just as well and as quickly (drag your routing from your strings to the reverb channel and set your send volume in around 3-4 seconds for example). 

[discreet]

1 minute ago, Mornats said:

also really like the look of the interface on FL Studio (and their lifetime upgrades policy). I've seen Alex Moukala use it in his videos and it just looks really nice. I've no idea how it compares to Reaper or Cubase though. It's around £140 which is a nice price.

I've used FL Studio for years and it just keeps getting better and better. Free upgrades for life. But I would agree that the DAW people tend to recommend is the one they use themselves and have got used to over time. Anyone contemplating getting into this for the first time has to realise that there is a learning curve, especially if you're not familiar with studio processes in the first place. But FL allowed me to start simple and work up. Needless to say I've never outgrown it and probably never will.

[Twigman]

Cakewalk Sonar

Lifetime updates forever package

[Mornats]

5 minutes ago, Twigman said:

Cakewalk Sonar

Lifetime updates forever package

Not any more I'm afraid: http://www.factmag.com/2017/11/22/cakewalk-closes-sonar-development-ends/

 

[Mornats]

29 minutes ago, discreet said:

I've used FL Studio for years and it just keeps getting better and better. Free upgrades for life. But I would agree that the DAW people tend to recommend is the one they use themselves and have got used to over time. Anyone contemplating getting into this for the first time has to realise that there is a learning curve, especially if you're not familiar with studio processes in the first place. But FL allowed me to start simple and work up. Needless to say I've never outgrown it and probably never will.

Yeah it looks like a good entry into DAWs and I simply love the look of the interface! Also this: 

 

[lowdown]

I have been using Cubase since back in the 90's. The Steinberg key (Syncrosoft eLicenser) has never been an issue for me. I also store my VSL Libraries on it.

It's just stuck in the back of the PC out of the way. I suppose, if you are using a laptop there could be possible breakage problems.

Losing your licenses or damaging your eLicenser key is not much of a huge problem these days.

Although this has not happened to me, I do know a couple of people who used the 'Zero Downtime' without a problem to retrieve/reinstall licenses.

https://helpcenter.steinberg.de/hc/en-us/articles/206532304-Steinberg-Zero-Downtime

(Cubase/Nuendo don't use iLok, so I can't comment on how that works for recovery, if indeed iLok do recover for you).

 

At present, I have an assistant composer gig for about three months (virtual tea boy & Midi house keeping/score prep) with someone over in LA.

This works through using Steinberg VST Connect Pro. As far as I know, there is no DAW other than Cubase/Nuendo using this system (it works a treat as well).

https://www.steinberg.net/en/products/vst/vst_connect/vst_connect_pro.html

 

 

 

Edited December 20, 2017 by lowdown

[gjamer]

Fruity loops looks brill, is it quite straight forward to record simple guitar, bass, vocal audio tracks with.

[gjamer]

I've used guitar tracks pro in the past, which is Cakewalk based if I'm not mistaken. Thought it was good and quite easy to understand, it was a bit "jittery" but I was using a crap PC at the time. I've since upgraded so it might be worth re-visiting.

[BigRedX]

1 hour ago, Twigman said:

Cakewalk Sonar

Lifetime updates forever package

Has just been discontinued by Gibson (not the first time they have done this with music software they have acquired) so your lifetime updates are now worthless.

[charic]

I've tried a fair few DAWs in my time and it definitely comes down to what works best for you rather than which is the best.  Especially as the field is levelling out these days

For me though:

Cubase, Cakewalk, Reaper - Unintuitive and restricts my creative flow

Protools - For me, this is by far the best for recording and basic edits, my current DAW (now available monthly if you have an iLok)

Reason - Incredibly intuitive and creative, lends itself really well towards the creative process.  Definitely my favourite for writing!  Unfortunately I don't have access to it anymore

Logic - Absolutely brilliant DAW, probably the best "all rounder" for me.  Recording is intuitive enough (although I prefer Pro Tools in this regard) and writing isn't "hindered" although it isn't as good as Reason in this regard.  Mixing and editing is it's strongest suit and the workflow is/was overall quite simple.

[cheddatom]

I've been using Cubase a long time, so I'm very used to it. When I went to uni we recorded on Pro Tools for a while, which I really liked. There were features such as group editing that saved so much time and hassle - then I figured out Cubase has the same features, you just need to find them. Now I like them both equally as multi-track recorders. Cubase wins it for me based on it's MIDI capabilities. In terms of routing I've never felt restricted at all. If a channel has audio on it, it's an audio channel. If it's got MIDI data on it, it's a MIDI channel. If I just want a channel I can route in and out of I use "group channel". I've never bothered with effects channels or whatever the other ones are. These three types do everything I could ever want. Copying settings between channels is easy, routing I/O of all channels is very easy... I suppose it's all intuitive when you're used to it. I bought my copy 2nd hand from Ebay for about half price.

I tried Reaper on my laptop a while ago, encouraged by the comments about the "small footprint" as my laptop is lacking in power. I really struggled to understand it. I'd have done a tutorial if I had the time, and hopefully I will at some point as I'd like it to work on ideas when away from the studio

I briefly tried logic while at uni and that seemed pretty intuitive but I never got much time with it

[Al Krow]

Finding this both an interesting and at same time confusing thread!  A key project for me in 2018 will be to get up to speed with a DAW and make use of the Focusrite 6i6 I got earlier in the year. From a previous thread I'd understood that Reaper was the way to go but a number of experienced users on here are suggesting it's actually not that intuitive and e.g. Logic Pro is better?

However am I correct that Logic Pro is only available for Mac, so as a Windows user that is not going to be an option?

In which case do I stick to the plan to go ahead with Reaper or go for something like Protools instead?

Unfortunately usual life constraints on time mean that I probably need to decide on one DAW and get stuck into learning and using that rather than having the luxury of being able to pick and mix.

[charic]

3 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Finding this both an interesting and at same time confusing thread!  A key project for me in 2018 will be to get up to speed with a DAW and make use of the Focusrite 6i6 I got earlier in the year. From a previous thread I'd understood that Reaper was the way to go but a number of experienced users on here are suggesting it's actually not that intuitive and e.g. Logic Pro is better?

However am I correct that Logic Pro is only available for Mac, so as a Windows user that is not going to be an option?

In which case do I stick to the plan to go ahead with Reaper or go for something like Protools instead?

Unfortunately usual life constraints on time mean that I probably need to decide on one DAW and get stuck into learning and using that rather than having the luxury of being able to pick and mix.

Reaper is free to try and I would go that way just to dip your toe.

ProTools is available on a monthly license BUT I think it requires an iLok which will affect your costs.

What are you hoping to use it for? Recording ideas? Writing?

 

[cheddatom]

I'd say no matter which DAW you choose, it'll take you a while to get used to it. Purely in terms of value for money Reaper probably wins

[BigRedX]

If you are starting from scratch, it doesn't really matter which DAW you pick, there will be a big learning curve but once you have got to grips with your DAW that will be the one that you'll probably stick with as learning another way of working will just be too much hassle.

I terms of standard features AFAICS all modern DAWs are on a fairly even footing. However if you intend to do a lot of work with MIDI instruments (either external or plug-ins), rather than simply treating it as multi-track tape recorder, then I would go with a DAW that has its roots in sequencing such as Cubase, Logic, or Digital Performer, and steer clear of Reaper or ProTools.

I would also steer clear of anything that uses hardware copy protection especially iLok. IME these devices fail at the most inappropriate time and as many iLok users discovered the zero downtime option doesn't always work.

[discreet]

47 minutes ago, cheddatom said:

I'd say no matter which DAW you choose, it'll take you a while to get used to it. Purely in terms of value for money Reaper probably wins

This. If you've not used a DAW before, any of them will seem daunting and unknowable at first. There is no option that doesn't have a fairly steep learning curve. Reaper is the most affordable and will do everything you need to do.

YouTube tutorials are handy.

[Al Krow]

50 minutes ago, charic said:

Reaper is free to try and I would go that way just to dip your toe.

ProTools is available on a monthly license BUT I think it requires an iLok which will affect your costs.

What are you hoping to use it for? Recording ideas? Writing?

 

Mixture of recording ideas and writing.

In terms of midi interfaces, I'm assuming everything will be routed via my Focusrite (inclduing possible midi output from e.g. an Alesis SR18 drum machine) - so was presuming it wouldn't be a major issue. Not sure if I am likely to be encountering the need for other midi interfaces?

Reaper does seem like a good value option, and I appreciate that there is going to be a learning curve involved.

But for me making sure that I am investing my time in getting up to speed on an intuitive and flexible DAW outweighs the cost savings, so I would be comfortable with spending an extra £150 to £200 (and deferring getting another bass pedal! )  if that means I'm not spending a lot of time getting up to speed on a less good DAW.

So happy to spend the extra if it means I won't end up tearing my hair out, if you get my gist?  

[Hellzero]

To me, even if I'm back on an old AKAI DPS16, the best intuitive DAW is Nuendo coupled to Wavelab Pro, but the cost is prohibitive. Used them  both when I had my little recording studio, with Reason for "electronic" parts and the results were simply top of the cream, but you have to own an ultrafast PC with an ultra performant sound card and top notch monitors... So, certainly the best pack, but the total cost will be, say, out of the real world.

[Hellzero]

And I forgot the mixing desk...

[discreet]

13 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

...happy to spend the extra if it means I won't end up tearing my hair out, if you get my gist?  

There is no scenario in which you won't be tearing your hair out, however much you spend.

[charic]

28 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Mixture of recording ideas and writing.

In terms of midi interfaces, I'm assuming everything will be routed via my Focusrite (inclduing possible midi output from e.g. an Alesis SR18 drum machine) - so was presuming it wouldn't be a major issue. Not sure if I am likely to be encountering the need for other midi interfaces?

Reaper does seem like a good value option, and I appreciate that there is going to be a learning curve involved.

But for me making sure that I am investing my time in getting up to speed on an intuitive and flexible DAW outweighs the cost savings, so I would be comfortable with spending an extra £150 to £200 (and deferring getting another bass pedal! )  if that means I'm not spending a lot of time getting up to speed on a less good DAW.

So happy to spend the extra if it means I won't end up tearing my hair out, if you get my gist?  

You're welcome to swing by mine sometime if you want to give protools a try without an outlay (although my studio is a bit cramped)

Ofcourse if you don't mind forking out for an iLok then you can trial protools for 30 days otherwise free, reaper is free to try without the need for an iLok. Reason is probably the wildcard to give a try and again looks like it's got a free trial

https://www.propellerheads.se/en/reason

The thing about Reason is that it is FUN in a big way. I haven't met a soul that didn't light up the first time that I showed them that you could rewire the backs of all the consoles in reason

[lowdown]

Presonus Studio One is worth demoing. You get 30 days.

It’s mostly drag and drop. One of the easiest to be up and running in no time.

https://www.presonus.com/products/Studio-One

[charic]

Looks like you've got 6 months of various free trials

[Al Krow]

Cheers guys. I can see there is going to be no substitute for downloading a few of these and having a quick play!

Reaper, Protools, Reason and Presonus to check out then, and then jump and hope for the best! 

[ambient]

Why I love Logic Pro, though I’m sure other DAWs will do the same.

I’ve been doing a remote session for a guy over the last day or so. It’s a kind of prog-rock thing in 7/4, very, very minimal percussion and drums. All he sent me was a WAV of the track. 

I imported it into Logic Pro, and using the tempo detect the tempo fluctuates quite a lot. So just playing along and recording was ridiculous. There are piano stabs at the start of each bar that you need to hit, which isn’t easy when they don’t fall exactly where you anticipate them. They were only maybe a fraction of a second out, but it sounds messy if you don’t get them exact. The tempo detect function though will not only detect the tempo but also add a click to record along with.