How to setup a fretless

[dyerseve]

Hi Everyone,

Just purchased my first fretless and whilst I consider myself very capable of doing a full setup on a fretted bass(thank you john Caruthers) im not sure how best to setup a fretless in order to acheive the lowest possible action without buzzing.

Ive read that a straigh neck ie no relief is best for fretless? Obviously intonation will be the same as a fretted and easy enough given my fretless is lined. However I would be keen to hear your thought re. action at the nut and any other tips.

Would you guys only ever use flats on a fretless?

cheers

Chris

[martthebass]

Nut needs to be cut v. low so care needs to be taken to make sure you don't bottom out - I've had a few Stingray Fretless basses and they've all been cut so low that the strings dig into the wood behind the nut (and this is from the factory - nothing to do with me hacking at it).

I usually go pretty flat on the neck for maximum whaaah but it depends how light your touch is - IMHO it is the way to go but you have to adapt your attack style.

I have always used flats - more for the feel than for the potential damage on the board, I find them easier to slide; if you want a little more zing then half rounds are a decent option (I've used the Status Hot Wire half rounds in the past to good effect but I think these have been discontinued).

 

Edited December 19, 2017 by martthebass

[bartelby]

I have my Warwick set up with the strings barely above the board at the nut, the neck is pretty much flat.

I have La Bella Superstep rounds on it, as the exposed core at the bridge allowed for a lower action, but I super glued the board.

Which is resisting the rounds pretty well.

[dyerseve]

thanks guys. I have feeler gauges so if you want to advise a measurement for the action at the nut that would be great thanks.

re. the La Bella's I may have to check these out as currently the saddles on my bridge are as low as they can go but action is higher than I would like so these strings may be the answer im looking for otherwise a shim under the neck may have to suffice. Could you be so kind as to show a photo of how they sit on your bridge.

[bartelby]

Its only a tiny amount that they’re lower, but it was just enough for what I needed.

[dyerseve]

wow, never seen strings like that before. very helpful for heavier gauges with the warwick bridges as I sometimes have trouble fitting the B string on mine.

If I get stuck sorting my action on the fretless I will defo give these a shot, thanks for the recommendation

[bartelby]

They’re really nice strings. I’m tempted to use them on a couple of my other basses.

[MoonBassAlpha]

Quote

Was is Rotosound or Elites that used to do something similar, called PSD (Piano String Design)?

 

[Andyjr1515]

Ref nut and truss rod for fretless, I set the truss rod exactly the same as a fretted bass and the nut so that the strings are just touching the fretboard.  If in doubt, a gnat's whisker above the fretboard is better than a gnat's whisker digging into the fretboard.

Personally, I use D'Addario Chromes for fretless to reduce the fretboard ridges that round-wounds can sometimes quite quickly leave.

[fleabag]

Andy , i thought i had a low action on my fretless, but the massive ' mwah ' i always wanted is missing. Its ok on the G, ( but not brilliant ) but  gets less

as i go to the D and less on the A, and even less on the E

I have my fretless action set low at the nut, and you cannot slide a credit card under the strings at the nut.  Maybe i should have the strings just touching

the fretboard at the nut ?   I am annoyed that my fretless doesnt sing with mwah like some of the fretlesses i hear and even thought about having a fretless neck

built, and asked about this on the forums

[Andyjr1515]

14 minutes ago, fleabag said:

Andy , i thought i had a low action on my fretless, but the massive ' mwah ' i always wanted is missing. Its ok on the G, ( but not brilliant ) but  gets less

as i go to the D and less on the A, and even less on the E

I have my fretless action set low at the nut, and you cannot slide a credit card under the strings at the nut.  Maybe i should have the strings just touching

the fretboard at the nut ?   I am annoyed that my fretless doesnt sing with mwah like some of the fretlesses i hear and even thought about having a fretless neck

built, and asked about this on the forums

There may be other factors in play.  The most likely is string tension...I'm guessing (anyone know for sure?) that string makes or types with lower tension will mwah more than those with higher tension.  There is a table somewhere (google should find it) where someone has put down the actual tension values for different makes and types of bass string.

I'm not sure the neck itself will be the main factor....

[fleabag]

Hmm...never thought of string tension.

And maybe the neck isnt the problem but just the fretboard ?    Maybe the answer is to have a new fretboard, perhaps in  Ebony, which seems to be a favourite for fretless.   Or even Ebanol , maybe even better. How the hell does one get hold of Ebanol ?

Or a complete new bass              I had toyed with the idea of a piezo fretless. Most of the great fretless basses i have

heard have been piezo based.  The Stradi Symphony is just one of many on You Tube that sounds amazing

Edited December 23, 2017 by fleabag

[Andyjr1515]

 

5 hours ago, fleabag said:

Hmm...never thought of string tension.

And maybe the neck isnt the problem but just the fretboard ?    Maybe the answer is to have a new fretboard, perhaps in  Ebony, which seems to be a favourite for fretless.   Or even Ebanol , maybe even better. How the hell does one get hold of Ebanol ?

Or a complete new bass              I had toyed with the idea of a piezo fretless. Most of the great fretless basses i have

heard have been piezo based.  The Stradi Symphony is just one of many on You Tube that sounds amazing

I don't really know enough about this aspect (ie, achieving mwah!), but logically the nut won't have any effect because the mwah is created as you  run a 'fretted' point up the fretboard, and the neck likewise won't.  I'm personally sceptical that the fretboard would make too much of a difference, assuming that it is a relatively hard wood.  

Action height will and therefore neck relief will - if it is too high, then you won't get the vibration of the string interacting with the fretboard at the 'fretting' point. And string tension will - lower tension will vibrate more and therefore hit the fretboard more.  The pickups and /or eq might...piezo's and some other pickups emphasise the higher frequencies better and, logically, the mwah frequencies are the higher ones?

But maybe there are other factors.

If it was me, i'd check the action height, I'd try low tension strings and then, because it is probably the cheaper option, spend a day in a well stocked shop and try other basses.  Anyone else got a view?

[Manton Customs]

A few things to keep in mind...You've got to have a very true board to get consistent mwah. Otherwise as you bring the action down it'll choke rather than sing. A low action is important also.

Harder materials (such as an epoxied board) will mwah slightly more but you can still get a decent amount on a Rosewood board. There will usually be more on the higher strings though, no matter what the material.

The other thing is your technique. Light finger pressure and plucking closer the neck will give you more mwah.

[fleabag]

Thanks guys, very helpful

I have an expoxied rosewood board, so i;m guessing that i need to get the fretboard truer, as mr Manton has suggested.

I  think i need a pro to level board true for fretless, as i dont think i have the skill to do such work.  For certain, there is a choke point

on the D string right on the 6th fret.