So I went fretless shopping today....

[Twanger]

...and dropped into a couple of London's elegant emporiums for the first time in 15 years. 

I was impressed. Remembering the old Bass Cellar in Denmark street, it was good to be served by pleasant, considerate staff. I see the Bass Cellar is no more. Not surprised.

But still. I tried a MIM jazz, a bottom of the range Ibanez, a Godin 5 string with a piezo and an Overwater, on sale second hand. The first thing I noticed was how good the basses were. The current Mexican Jazz bass is head and shoulders above the old MIMs I recall from the 90s. Well made and well set up with a neck to die for. I have no idea if the neck is quarter sawn or not, but the whole thing reeked of good value for the price. The pickups were better - MUCH better - than the pups on the old MIMs. No buzz, for one thing. The old ones weren't even reverse would/ reverse polarity. I wasn't so keen on the flatwound strings the bass came with. The shop guy said they were Fender strings. They were sticky and too stiff - I'm used to TIs. The real shock was going back to a four string after having played 5s for so long. It felt a bit claustrophobic. And having played a 24 fret bass for so long, I really noticed the lack of easy access to the high neck.

The Ibanez SR was the cheap bass - around £300 and Indonesian made. It was well made, too. Active electronics were OK, and again I was impressed. You could never have got a bass of that quality for that price 20 years ago. It was a five string, and I found I could happily deal with the closer string spacing. My own fiver at home has 19mm spacing. But I'd be worried about a 4 string SR - the neck might be too skinny.

The Godin was a bit niche. I really don't like piezos. They sound good in your bedroom or if recording, I guess, but for me electromagnetic pickups may not sound "authentic" but they sound good, which is much more important. I'm glad I found that out.

The Overwater was a second hand bass, and I really appreciated the quality. But it was active, and also had a really skinny neck. And there's something about neck through basses I don't like. They always sound a bit bland to me. I once had a neck through Yamaha BB something or other, and I had the same reaction to that. Bolt on works for me. All personal taste, or course.

So, I know now that I am looking for:

1. A passive bass with electromagnetic pups.

2. Bolt on neck, not too skinny.

3. Easy access to the higher parts of the neck.

4. Not too worried about 4 or 5 strings. Also not worried about lined/ unlined.

The Fender came closest to what I'm looking for. Is there something I've missed? I saw no Warwicks, for example.

 

[Hellzero]

It's not really fretless shopping as you didn't buy anything. 

The problem with fretless basses is to find some to try in shops, but you were lucky, I would say. 

If you want to buy a very good bass, just try the second hand luthiers basses, they are the best you will find as they resell for peanuts.

Be patient, look here on BassChat and everywhere else and you'll get the right one.

Edited December 20, 2017 by Hellzero

[EliasMooseblaster]

Presumably what you knew as The Bass Cellar is now Wunjo Bass - which has been relegated back to an underground location in the last couple of years. Nice folks in there; I've obviously been in there a bit too often as they seem to recognise me!

Was the Jazz a black one with a white plate and a lined neck? There's an outside chance it may have belonged to me previously! Great basses either way.

A bit surprised you didn't stumble across any Warwicks - my first fretless was a Warwick/Rockbass Corvette that I bought from Wunjo (and part-ex'ed for the aforementioned Jazz), and they also seemed to have one or two fretless Warwicks or RBs knocking about when I went in, usually buried among all the fretless 'rays.

[Twanger]

Comment noted, Hellzero. Well, it was the beginning of the shopping process - how about that? I realised I wouldn't know what I wanted unless I went and tried stuff.

And, Elias, no. I tried a new MIM at another place in Camden Town.

Point about keeping an eye on the "for sale" page here is noted.

[White Cloud]

Thanks for sharing your experience with that eclectic little collection of basses. Funny that you should mention Warwick...they make fabulous, growly fretless basses and are available second hand for a snip.

[LoneFurrow]

Good luck with the hunt, @Twanger 

A few thoughts: 

1) There's an MTD ZX5 fretless in the For Sale section that might be of interest - here. 

2) If it's not too much of a trek, you might want to head to Leamington Spa to visit the fine store there. At the very least, it's worth browsing their website to get some ideas.

3) There are at least a couple of stores in Camden I've found - one more generic guitar / bass store, the other dedicated to basses. I'd head to the latter if you haven't already. 

[NickA]

" Is there something I've missed? "   What you need my friend.... is a Mk1 4-string wal custom fretless :¬)

[Twanger]

17 minutes ago, NickA said:

" Is there something I've missed? "   What you need my friend.... is a Mk1 4-string wal custom fretless :¬)

Yes. I see your point. I had a look at their website - "prices start from £5500". I'll sell my zimmer frame.

[Grahambythesea]

When looking for a fretless 5 a little while ago, I read various reviews and then decided to take a chance on something that was from a reputable maker and had good reviews. I the. Found on line a bass at a very good price which I thought, if I have made a mistake , I can sell this on at at reasonable .price. I got a fretless Spector Spectorcore 5 string. Very well made in his own factory in Korea, comes with magnetic pickup and piezo, a bonus which I now really like. I find the string spaci g a little narrow but not a huge problem.  Plus it's quite light, has an ebony board and has an wry nice looking maple cap to boot. May be a risk is worth taking?

[NickA]

2 hours ago, Twanger said:

Yes. I see your point. I had a look at their website - "prices start from £5500". I'll sell my zimmer frame.

... and the 2nd hand ones don't cost much less (http://www.bassdirect.co.uk/bass_guitar_specialists/Wal_MKI_Fretless_1983.html). 

I guess they keep their value tho, so you can always sell to fund yr retirement; however, I reckon there's a bubble going on right now, possibly fuelled by collectors from the US who want gold plated hardware and fancy colour finishes on the back of the falling pound; so you could end up in negative equity ... best wait for the crash, and buy only then! :¬)

Back in 1998, mine cost £650 and a Yamaha BB2000 in px (wish I'd kept the Yamaha and paid the balance)

Anyway Wals are active and you want a passive .. could do worse than that Fender MIM jazz TBH.

[alyctes]

I'm after a Spectorcore fretless five, personally.  I can't see affording a new one though. 

[Twanger]

Thanks for the replies.

My allergy to piezos is real. It goes for acoustic guitars as well. I've tried all sorts, from the bog standard under the saddle to blended systems, and I have never been happy with them - I think it's a lack of urgency in the sound. I keep wanting to like piezos, but I never have.

The active hangup I'm less sure of. It's a bit irrational, because I use a Sadowsky preamp - I have a belt clip which still works, despite lying fallow for years. I like  passive roll off tone controls, particularly on a precision. It's clearly very subjective, but both the active basses I've  had - a Yamaha BB (can't recall the number) and a Stu Hamm Urge I just couldn't get on with. It always seemed that the preamp came between me and the bass, and I couldn't really decide what the bass really sounded like. What it's own actual character was.

It's more than likely that I just like classic Fender tones, and so tend to judge everything by that standard. That being the case, I'll probably go for the Fender. But I ain't rushing.

[Funkfingers]

Wot? This far into a thread and no mention of the Musicman Stingray? 

Fender-like feel. Magnetic pickup. Only the EQ is active. In my opinion, the two-band Bandaxall type sounds better than the three-band.

[EliasMooseblaster]

9 hours ago, Twanger said:

I like  passive roll off tone controls, particularly on a precision...It's more than likely that I just like classic Fender tones, and so tend to judge everything by that standard. That being the case, I'll probably go for the Fender. But I ain't rushing.

It's a more expensive option than the MIM Jazz, but have you had a look into the Tony Franklin fretless Precision? To my mind it's the best fretless Fender make: the P pickup sounds wonderful, and the J pickup in the bridge is possibly the best of its kind I've come across. Thicker neck than the Jazz as well - definitely more of a Precision profile - and the unlined ebony board just looks wonderful!

(Only drawback is they cost about four times as much...)

[Twanger]

3 minutes ago, EliasMooseblaster said:

(Only drawback is they cost about four times as much...)

Yup. That looks like my dream bass, but I have to live in the real world!

[Hellzero]

9 hours ago, Funkfingers said:

Wot? This far into a thread and no mention of the Musicman Stingray? 

Fender-like feel. Magnetic pickup. Only the EQ is active. In my opinion, the two-band Bandaxall type sounds better than the three-band.

Hum, with a Baxandall EQ you "cut"  the mids when boosting the highs and lows which is THE sensible point of a fretless, the place to create the sound.  

If you want to have your fretless really singing, the key frequency is 800 Hz, so it's better to have a 3 bands EQ with an 800 Hz boost because a 2 bands EQ Baxandall type won't do the job here...

[NickA]

The wal has tone controls like a passive fender, ie low pass with an adjustable cut frequency.  But it has one per pickup and the option of boosting the volume at (and just below) the cut frequency.    Active yes, but does what a passive does with extras.  I'm usually turning the mids DOWN on mine, so the concept of boosting the mids to get a more "fretlessly" sound is a bit foreign to me.

With the response curve shown above (similar to what my Warwick has) you can still boost the mids (quite close to 800Hz in fact) by cutting the bass and treble then turning up the volume.  Never quite saw the point of a mid boost / cut unless it's a "parametric" one with an adjustable centre frequency.  Plus there are always the amp EQ controls .. so unless you change tone a lot whilst playing (or can adjust the pickup frequency responses individually .. as per modern Wals and some Alembics) tone controls actually on the bass are probably not that important.

Of course, some of the best fretless playing ever was on a passive fender jazz (plus two expensive amps and a bit of chorus).

[Hellzero]

And what about Percy Jones, Mick Karn, to name two old fretless active bass player and Alain Caron to name a modern one or even Alfonso Johnson. Some of them played fretless when someone was still practicing sport and not playing bass...

Try to boost the 800 Hz zone on your fretless with your on board or out board preamp and you'll hear that your fretles bass is singing and growling...

[Hellzero]

Maybe what you are looking for and the guy living in Antwerpen surely speaks English : https://www.zikinf.com/annonces/dispannonce.php?annonce=1504535

[NickA]

Shame the pickups are switched rather than blendable ... but having a bridge pickup will surely help get that fretless growl.

Meanwhile a bit of experimentation shows that mid lift helps my fretless jazz bass a-like, especially if using the neck pickup.  But the Wal has so much mid range anyway, that any boost is over-kill. 

Mick Kahn and Percy Jones are two of my favorite bass players btw .. and reasons why I own a Wal!  For fretless, IMHO, active usually beats passive as you're trying to squeeze out all the tone you can; but there are still notable exceptions (ie Jaco!)