Working life of a MarkBass LM3

[martthebass]

This last year I've found myself in a band that gigs pretty much every weekend and has c.50 gigs booked next year.  I'm pretty happy with the sound and portability of my current MB set up which comprises, LM3, 2 x NY121 but to make sure I'm covered for breakdowns I carry a Promethean 500W head as a backup to the LM3.  The LM3 is one of the last of the Italian made units and I'm beginning to think about what to replace it with some time in the new year.  So a couple of questions; what would the expected life of a well looked after LM3 be - am I getting unnecessarily worried about its durability (it's never missed a beat in gigs/rehearsals) and what would make a suitable lightweight replacement?

[Delberthot]

There's no reason why it shouldn't last 20 years if looked after and not pushed too hard.

 

I'm the same as you - I could have basses and cabs of any age but I'm really panicky about my amps and change them every couple of years.

You've got a backup so worst case scenario you finish the gig with the Promethean and either get the MB checked or bin it and buy another

[mybass]

33 minutes ago, martthebass said:

This last year I've found myself in a band that gigs pretty much every weekend and has c.50 gigs booked next year.  I'm pretty happy with the sound and portability of my current MB set up which comprises, LM3, 2 x NY121 but to make sure I'm covered for breakdowns I carry a Promethean 500W head as a backup to the LM3.  The LM3 is one of the last of the Italian made units and I'm beginning to think about what to replace it with some time in the new year.  So a couple of questions; what would the expected life of a well looked after LM3 be - am I getting unnecessarily worried about its durability (it's never missed a beat in gigs/rehearsals) and what would make a suitable lightweight replacement?

Maybe get it checked up for any possible signs of internal wear n tear...Real Electronics in Sheffield deal with MarkBass repairs.....0114 2442969

[la bam]

Personally i always had a policy when i had the cash and wanted a new amp of sell the backup not the main, then promote the new amp to main and the existing main to backup. That way you always improve your kit without too much outlay.

Either way you are covered as you already have a good backup.

Edited December 29, 2017 by la bam

[M@23]

If it's well looked after and never missed a beat, I don't see why you should worry about it now. 

I'd only change if you want to go a different direction. The LM3 is still in production, so should the worst happen it is easily replaced. 

[JazzBass4624]

I have a made in Indonesia LM III and use it almost every day for either gigging or practice. If it would fail on me for some reason I would buy a new one without hesitation. For sure there are other good heads around but I can read and write with this little thing so why bother about anything else. If I were you I would feel quite confident with my LM3 and backup. If it gets damaged...buy a new one, they're just as good.

 

 

[mcnach]

6 hours ago, JazzBass4624 said:

I have a made in Indonesia LM III and use it almost every day for either gigging or practice. If it would fail on me for some reason I would buy a new one without hesitation. For sure there are other good heads around but I can read and write with this little thing so why bother about anything else. If I were you I would feel quite confident with my LM3 and backup. If it gets damaged...buy a new one, they're just as good.

 

 

 

This.

I don't think the Italy vs Indonesia production really has anything in it. I have a LM3 from 2009 as a backup (and home rig) and I'll probably get another if/when it fails. It's not the very best sounding amp, but it's an amp that never lets me down and always produces pleasant sounds.

[martthebass]

Thanks for the replies guys, I’ll stop giving myself concerns for the moment then and hope it gives me another few years of trouble free service

[MoJoKe]

If you look at the Markbass Facebook thread, Marco has been very vocal about the Italy/Indonesia (non)issue in the last few days...  I've used both for years (since 2009), and couldn't tell you the difference in sound or quality. Completely moot, old and irrelevant point now. Their unquestionably high quality and low failure rate speaks for itself. There is always going to be someone with an unlucky story to add to this (and I've had issues myself), but UK support/service is strong (as long as you didn't buy from Germany/Holland; wrong power rating for the UK), and compared to many manufacturers, far, far less issues of pro use with Markbass in my 40 years of bass amps... Oh, and my back stopped complaining a while back too!! 

[yorks5stringer]

UK declared voltage 230 volts

German declared voltage 230 volts

Dutch declared voltage  230 volts

All at 50hz so where is the difference in power rating?

[JazzBass4624]

I live in The Netherlands and subsequently have a regional version of LM. I have visited the UK many times and have always used my "Dutch gear" without problems.

Would be different if you took your stuff to the States though.

[MoJoKe]

9 hours ago, yorks5stringer said:

UK declared voltage 230 volts

German declared voltage 230 volts

Dutch declared voltage  230 volts

All at 50hz so where is the difference in power rating?

"Declared" is not the same as "the same"!  I researched all this when I recently bought a Samson Powerbrite Pro for my PA rack, and saw it showing 253 volts on the display!!

Here's how it works:

"For many years, mainland Western Europe has used a mains electricity supply rated at nominally 220VAC 50Hz. The UK used 240VAC 50Hz.

Currently, ALL Western European supplies are classified 230VAC. In reality there is no 230VAC supply unless you create one locally. 230VAC was a “standard” created during European "harmonisation" to give a single voltage standard across Western Europe, including UK and Irish Republic.

Although the ideal would have been to have a single voltage there were too many political, financial and technical obstacles to reduce UK voltage to European levels or to increase European voltage to UK levels, so a new standard was created to cover both. This was achieved by changing the tolerances of previously existing supply standards. UK voltage  to 240VAC + 6% and - 10% and European to 220VAC +10% and -6%  (thereby creating a manageable overlap) and we would call these two combined 230VAC, despite the fact that nobody was intentionally generating at 230VAC!

Depending on the voltage sensitivity of the product and the variance from nominal of the actual supplied voltage, it may not be advisable to use a 220VAC specific device in the UK or a 240VAC specific device in Mainland Europe etc. For instance a 240VAC supply can rise to as high as 254.4VAC and still be within tolerance, but the maximum rated voltage for a 220VAC product is only 242VAC. A 220VAC supply can drop as low as 206.8 within tolerance but the minimum rated voltage for correct operation of a 240VAC product is 216VAC It may work perfectly well either way but it could be, technically, outside the specification of the equipment with obvious implications. A 230VAC product must be compatible with all voltages across this range."

So, this is a potential problem way beyond Markbass, or any other bass amplifier.  In summary this means:
 
Equipment shipped within the EU is rated to manage 230VAC, but in reality this is 220VAC +10% which, at its highest acceptable level within the standard is 242 volts
 
The UK power supply is rated at 240VAC +6%, which gives an acceptable maximum tolerance output of 254.40 volts (and as said above, I have recorded 253 myself!)

In most cases you'll be absolutely fine buying electrical goods from Holland/Germany, but it’s therefore not surprising some of it occasionally gets fried - and it'll have to go back to the supplier/country for repair/replacement (your consumer rights are with the person you bought from).

Full article here: https://www.schneider-electric.co.uk/en/faqs/FA144717/

 

[MoJoKe]

1 minute ago, JazzBass4624 said:

I live in The Netherlands and subsequently have a regional version of LM. I have visited the UK many times and have always used my "Dutch gear" without problems.

Would be different if you took your stuff to the States though.

Absolutely, and ditto when I do a gig in Europe. Most of the time you'll be absolutely fine, but if you get a power spike, in the UK this can be "acceptably" higher within the UK tolerances than those of the EU.

As you say, the US is a different story.

[Dan Dare]

On ‎29‎/‎12‎/‎2017 at 12:21, la bam said:

Personally i always had a policy when i had the cash and wanted a new amp of sell the backup not the main, then promote the new amp to main and the existing main to backup. That way you always improve your kit without too much outlay.

Either way you are covered as you already have a good backup.

I do this, too. Re. the original question, I'd stick with what you have if it's working. As far as comments about variations in local power supplies are concerned, most good quality kit has universal power supplies these days (my AG700 does), which will adapt to most, if not all, circumstances.

[yorks5stringer]

2 hours ago, MoJoKe said:

"Declared" is not the same as "the same"!  I researched all this when I recently bought a Samson Powerbrite Pro for my PA rack, and saw it showing 253 volts on the display!!

Here's how it works:

"For many years, mainland Western Europe has used a mains electricity supply rated at nominally 220VAC 50Hz. The UK used 240VAC 50Hz.

Currently, ALL Western European supplies are classified 230VAC. In reality there is no 230VAC supply unless you create one locally. 230VAC was a “standard” created during European "harmonisation" to give a single voltage standard across Western Europe, including UK and Irish Republic.

Although the ideal would have been to have a single voltage there were too many political, financial and technical obstacles to reduce UK voltage to European levels or to increase European voltage to UK levels, so a new standard was created to cover both. This was achieved by changing the tolerances of previously existing supply standards. UK voltage  to 240VAC + 6% and - 10% and European to 220VAC +10% and -6%  (thereby creating a manageable overlap) and we would call these two combined 230VAC, despite the fact that nobody was intentionally generating at 230VAC!

Depending on the voltage sensitivity of the product and the variance from nominal of the actual supplied voltage, it may not be advisable to use a 220VAC specific device in the UK or a 240VAC specific device in Mainland Europe etc. For instance a 240VAC supply can rise to as high as 254.4VAC and still be within tolerance, but the maximum rated voltage for a 220VAC product is only 242VAC. A 220VAC supply can drop as low as 206.8 within tolerance but the minimum rated voltage for correct operation of a 240VAC product is 216VAC It may work perfectly well either way but it could be, technically, outside the specification of the equipment with obvious implications. A 230VAC product must be compatible with all voltages across this range."

So, this is a potential problem way beyond Markbass, or any other bass amplifier.  In summary this means:
 
Equipment shipped within the EU is rated to manage 230VAC, but in reality this is 220VAC +10% which, at its highest acceptable level within the standard is 242 volts
 
The UK power supply is rated at 240VAC +6%, which gives an acceptable maximum tolerance output of 254.40 volts (and as said above, I have recorded 253 myself!)

In most cases you'll be absolutely fine buying electrical goods from Holland/Germany, but it’s therefore not surprising some of it occasionally gets fried - and it'll have to go back to the supplier/country for repair/replacement (your consumer rights are with the person you bought from).

Full article here: https://www.schneider-electric.co.uk/en/faqs/FA144717/

 

Thanks for the fuller explanation.

[M@23]

13 hours ago, MoJoKe said:

If you look at the Markbass Facebook thread, Marco has been very vocal about the Italy/Indonesia (non)issue in the last few days...

Nice one. Just went and looked this up. Interesting stuff re: everything getting double checked and it being the same components. 

I'm the happiest I've been for years with my latest setup which is 100% Indonesian Markbass. 

[yorks5stringer]

3 hours ago, M@23 said:

Nice one. Just went and looked this up. Interesting stuff re: everything getting double checked and it being the same components. 

I'm the happiest I've been for years with my latest setup which is 100% Indonesian Markbass. 

I've one of each and apart from being made to jump through a number of ridiculous hoops  re getting a new rubber handle for a 13 month old 802 Minimark (photos and copies of receipt) have had no issues.

[mcnach]

8 minutes ago, yorks5stringer said:

I've one of each and apart from being made to jump through a number of ridiculous hoops  re getting a new rubber handle for a 13 month old 802 Minimark (photos and copies of receipt) have had no issues.

 

I had to get a new handle for my CMD121P combo: the metal blade inside the rubber bit had cut through the rubber (easily) and was slowly but surely sawing away at the PLASTIC bit that screws into the cabinet and holds the handle together. I only noticed because I was looking into getting a replacement for the fraying handle. Nearly half of the post had already been sawn into. Not good!!! 

I contacted MarkBass about that and they sent me a new handle, free of charge. They were very fast too. Of course, it was the same plastic one... so I sourced a better one with metal parts on eBay. Silly place to cut costs.

[yorks5stringer]

My handle went the same way.

I went back to the Retailer, who contacted the Distributor, who then contacted the Repairs Agent. Should have contacted Marco I reckon!

[mcnach]

1 hour ago, yorks5stringer said:

My handle went the same way.

I went back to the Retailer, who contacted the Distributor, who then contacted the Repairs Agent. Should have contacted Marco I reckon!

 

These days I often go to the company directly (depending on who it is), and they often deal with you pretty efficiently... and if not, well, nothing lost, go to the established channels

 

When my 2 month old TC RH450 head went up in smoke at a gig, a few polite questions on Talkbass let to TC contacting me directly and arranging a replacement: THEY contacted my local store, who had none in stock, and TC sent them one for me. My amp died on a Saturday night, on Sunday TC contacted me and on Monday afternoon they called me to say "pick up your new amp on Wednesday".

When I had issued with a *second hand* Source Audio pedal, I contacted them for ideas... they had me sent the pedal and came back a week later with a fresh power supply, all free of charge.

Nordstrand rewound a Jazz pickup for me. DiMarzio sent me a bunch of polepieces. Etc etc...