Pinball Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 It seems to me that everything is stacked against bands these days I suspect that some of the reasons are: The high costs of touring with a band Venues often don't pay enough to support a band People just don't flock to see specific bands in the way they used too Cover bands seem favoured by audiences Money from recordings has shrunk to nowt and people expect to get their music free anyway Younger people tend to listen to specific tracks rather than buy albums or follow bands Not much record label support for artists Modern living! In my experience is that band members struggle to get time to practice and get to travel to gigs Unless bands are full time they really need a manager get money in from PRS, radio and gig royalties etc. It seems to me that everything is stacked against bands and I struggle to think of reallty successful bands that have come to the fore recently. Tell me that I'm wrong please as I love playing in and listening to a good band ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodinblack Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 I agree with most of that apart from: 36 minutes ago, Pinball said: Modern living! In my experience is that band members struggle to get time to practice and get to travel to gigs I don't believe that is any more true than it was at any time before, someone passionate about music will devote most of their time to it in the way they did before. I would also think it was easier to get to gigs now, vans are more common and pretty cheap. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 A band I love, and have been lucky enough to play gigs with, Booze & Glory started out in 2008. They released their 4th album last year, and have been pretty much on a world tour since then. They started out as an Oi band, but have shifted slightly to a street-punk band, still a minority genre, yet they`ve all had to give up work in order to be in the band full-time. It is possible, yes the odds are stacked against us originallers more than ever, but with a clear idea of what is wanted, band members who are prepared to put in the graft, and a good working ethic it can be done. Even if the aim isn`t to "make it" but to venture forwards you can still have a great time, accepting that "making it" isn`t what is wanted. We`ve no intentions of that, we`re too old, and too comfortable in regular working life, yet in the four years we`ve been together our profile has grown and we`ve had a blast doing it. We released our 3rd album last year, and already in 2018 have gigs booked in (if you include England, Scotland & Wales) 7 countries. There`s also possibility of an overseas tour with a larger band being proposed. Our albums on vinyl are with record companies but on CD we handle that ourselves, along with all of the other merch. So it is possible to do a whole lot more than you`d think, but it requires no passengers, lead, follow, or get out of the way really (I`m a follower btw). 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinball Posted January 1, 2018 Author Share Posted January 1, 2018 45 minutes ago, Woodinblack said: I don't believe that is any more true than it was at any time before, someone passionate about music will devote most of their time to it in the way they did before. I would also think it was easier to get to gigs now, vans are more common and pretty cheap. I agree with you about the devotion and it is easier to make music than it was. The problem in my experience is that going back a couple of decades most people worked Monday to Friday and had Sundays off. Now people commonly work evenings and weekends. For example in our band one person works in a care home, two in supermarket logistics so early starts and working weekends and I'm 9-5. In addition some have family care duties. My point is that it's not easy for bands with 4 or 5 members unless they are established or financially secure-unless you are lucky. 36 minutes ago, Lozz196 said: A band I love, and have been lucky enough to play gigs with, Booze & Glory started out in 2008. That is great but you have been going for 10 years. Hats off for your hard work but I think that things have got more difficult even since 2008. Promotion and getting paid gigs that will get you on the road with a band of 4 or 5 people sounds a tall order to me, unless you both really lucky and very good. I know of four very good local bands that have started up in the last 4 years (the life of my current band) and were successful e.g. morning TV, high profile gigs etc. but they all folded beciuase of the difficulties in keeping going and not being able to make a living out of it. Cover of Wedding bands on the other hand, they seem to do OK. Note: I have heard of your band, I must try and catch them sometime Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alyctes Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 Part of the problem, for me at least, is that tastes change (more electronica, etc.) and the market is more crowded - not least because there's an ever-longer list of stuff to listen to. The rise of electronic systems means also that there's less point in going to see live bands, because the interaction between people just isn't there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 56 minutes ago, Pinball said: That is great but you have been going for 10 years. Hats off for your hard work but I think that things have got more difficult even since 2008. Note: I have heard of your band, I must try and catch them sometime I`m not in Booze & Glory btw, just was lucky enough to play a few gigs on the same bill as them - they`re my fave band so was awesome. One was down your way too, at The Fleece. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat Burrito Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 We toured around Scotland in Summer '16 ; 8 days with a hired big splitter van and hotel rooms. We had to work hard with only 2hrs downtime on one day (in Edinburgh) but we managed to brake even. It's tough but you can do it. We lose on some shows but often manage to brake even. I guess the view we take is that music is art and we're not in it for riches. I play in a couple of other groups, one of which does covers, but this is just to keep playing and performing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteb Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, Pinball said: I agree with you about the devotion and it is easier to make music than it was. The problem in my experience is that going back a couple of decades most people worked Monday to Friday and had Sundays off. Now people commonly work evenings and weekends. For example in our band one person works in a care home, two in supermarket logistics so early starts and working weekends and I'm 9-5. In addition some have family care duties. My point is that it's not easy for bands with 4 or 5 members unless they are established or financially secure-unless you are lucky. More to the point, it is just as difficult for punters! Someone is less likely to go for a big night out watching a Saturday gig if they know they have to be up for work at seven o'clock on a Sunday morning. It makes it much harder for a band to pack out gigs, generate income and develop a following these days. Edited January 1, 2018 by peteb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezbass Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 There are plenty of new rock bands out there (well newish), some that spring to mind are: Von Hertzen Brothers; Volbeat; Tax The Heat; Broken Witt Rebels; The Fallen State. Check out Wyatt’s New Rock Show, Saturday nights on a Planet Rock. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The59Sound Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 Volbeat are definitely not newish haha! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marvin Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 5 hours ago, ezbass said: There are plenty of new rock bands out there (well newish), some that spring to mind are: Von Hertzen Brothers; Volbeat; Tax The Heat; Broken Witt Rebels; The Fallen State. Check out Wyatt’s New Rock Show, Saturday nights on a Planet Rock. I used to bump into the guys from The Fallen State regularly, we used to share the same rehearsal rooms. Nice bunch of guys...very loud though Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skybone Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 Yet we still do it. Why? Because of the creative aspect, because we don't want to play other peoples songs, or just simply, because. There's no money in it, it's hard work, but it's worth it because of the creative aspect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinball Posted January 1, 2018 Author Share Posted January 1, 2018 (edited) 52 minutes ago, Skybone said: Yet we still do it. Why? Because of the creative aspect, because we don't want to play other peoples songs, or just simply, because. There's no money in it, it's hard work, but it's worth it because of the creative aspect. I couldn't agree more, it's very enjoyable and rewarding. I'm ain a band that I think is a success, because we get a lot of fun out of it and we're producing recordings etc. (see the video below). I have also been in 3 or 4 other projects which have not shown much if anything in the way of results. The reasons for this are all covered somewhere in the origonal post. Making this was fun, satisfying and non commercial. I also know of some great more mainstream bands that seem to be getting nowhere very slowly: Edited January 1, 2018 by Pinball 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulWarning Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 I've pondered this question myself, the main way bands 'made it' in the old days was to get a record deal with all the professional promotion that entailed, there is so little money in record sales these days that record companies are very loathed to sign bands up Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 1 hour ago, PaulWarning said: ...record companies are very loathed to sign bands up Oh, I don't know; most record companies are rather revered for signing bands, I'd have said. I think you meant to type 'loath' or 'loth' (unwilling...), instead of 'loathed' (detested...). Just sayin'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skybone Posted January 1, 2018 Share Posted January 1, 2018 2 hours ago, Pinball said: I couldn't agree more, it's very enjoyable and rewarding. I'm ain a band that I think is a success, because we get a lot of fun out of it and we're producing recordings etc. (see the video below). I have also been in 3 or 4 other projects which have not shown much if anything in the way of results. The reasons for this are all covered somewhere in the origonal post. Making this was fun, satisfying and non commercial. I also know of some great more mainstream bands that seem to be getting nowhere very slowly: Enjoyed that. In the "good old days" one band I was in made a couple of albums, did a 2 week tour and numerous gigs around and about. It was fun, some of it was tedious, some of it was relentless, some of it was just plain dreadful, but I wouldn't change any of it (well, OK, not too much of it). Latest band we've just got a new singer on board, and it's going well. The next step is getting another song polished off, then a recording session at the end of the month. Hopefully, we can start looking to get some gigs booked, and see where it takes us. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josie Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 The Cadillac Three won "Best New Band" at the 2014 Classic Rock Awards. I first heard them play in about 2002 when they were promising high school lads (my younger son was their first drummer). They have hardly stopped touring in 15 years. Their last couple of UK tours have sold out in bigger and bigger venues - Mcr Academy in November was their biggest headline gig yet (almost 3,000). They told me this would be the first time they were going to make a profit on a tour - that's three guys traveling with very little gear and support personnel, keeping costs low. Any profit is coming from merch, not ticket sales - they have a fanatical fan base who will buy anything with their logo on it. (And they do keep prices affordable.) I'm completely in awe of how hard these guys have worked and for how long, to just begin to see the recognition and the reward. Well deserved. But 15 years of bl**dy hard graft ( as well as good management and luck) can be what it takes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 (edited) 58 minutes ago, josie said: The Cadillac Three... +1 to all of that. Our eldest was a member of Kiemsa for several years; I did their sound, then their lights for a bit longer, even. They had a keen and growing fan base, started playing in local venues and self-promoted concerts, and gradually climbed up to festivals and headlining bigger places, playing every week-end of the year and more. They called it a day after their very successful second German tour, and the 'Adieu' gig was jam-packed. In all of those years (over a decade...), only the sound guy (Vincent...) got a 'salary'; all the rest of their revenue from concerts, CDs and merch was ploughed back into the next venture. They parted excellent friends; I still see 'em now and again, and none regret the time, energy (in spades..!) and money poured into it all. Net result, as far as 'living wage' is concerned..? A huge negative. It was (and, I believe, still is...) just about impossible to be a musician in that category and get a mortgage, run a car or send kids through school. Great for the young, but not an easy career choice. Great times were had by all, though; I've the scars to prove it..! Edited January 2, 2018 by Dad3353 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinball Posted January 2, 2018 Author Share Posted January 2, 2018 Positive stories Dad and Josie. Another issue that makes is difficult for a band starting now is the way the promotional media and audience habbits is fragmented. When I started promoting our band 4 years ago I used to be on FB and Twitter and used to get a pretty good response from that. Now FB has changed and isn't as effective at reaching people and Instagram, Snapchat and watszap or whatever divide peoples time. I'm also on Reverbation, Ents 24 and need somewhere to sell gear so am looking at joining Bandcamp. That means that the amount of time spent infront of the PC has multiplied and the message about say our next gig is more difficult to get across. Add that to the change in audience habbits that seems to be going on and promotion is becoming a bit of a nightmare. Thank goodness there are so many festivals about as at least you know that there will be people there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard Smalls Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 Seems a bit odd to me that punters are very willing to pay £100 or so to see Metallica along with 5-10000 others, or even to pay £6 to see ABCD tribute band, but won't come and see an originals band playing for free. Fair enough, you know Metallica will be slick as will the covers band (hopefully!). But that doesn't mean the free originals band won't be as well! Perhaps there's less appetite for new live music, maybe they don't want to just take a punt? Or perhaps it was always so... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 On the punk scene you see people from all over the place at gigs, I might see someone in Blackpool one weekend, then bump into them in Penzance a few weeks later. Some people seem to spend their every weekend going to gigs. Now this might be an age thing, they`re all 40s/50s, so maybe it`s because that`s what they used to do in their youth and either are doing it again, now that kids have grown up/left home, or they`ve just always done it. But whichever, the punk scene gets good attendance, and not just for the bands that were around when punk first came out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The59Sound Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 I myself have tried to support the local scene but have given up. A lot of the original nights are free, some are a fiver to get in (none of which goes to the band - I know from playing the same venue). The problem I find is I don't think many bands are that good in my area; a lot of them have been doing the same sort of music for close to 20 years, maybe 10 for the younger ones. There might be a line up change here, an image change there but all their music sounds the same - no one is really doing anything different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulWarning Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 22 minutes ago, The59Sound said: I myself have tried to support the local scene but have given up. A lot of the original nights are free, some are a fiver to get in (none of which goes to the band - I know from playing the same venue). The problem I find is I don't think many bands are that good in my area; a lot of them have been doing the same sort of music for close to 20 years, maybe 10 for the younger ones. There might be a line up change here, an image change there but all their music sounds the same - no one is really doing anything different. yep, there's a lot of rubbish out there, after a couple of bad gigs most folk give up and stop going, the promoters have to share responsibility for this, they can't be bothered to do their homework and are just interested in how many mates a band can bring in, I've also found that a lot of smallish venues have a bloody awful sound (or soundmen) as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzmanb Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 Different for all bands not just rock.I was in an originals band in the 90s and the only way to get anywhere was gig,finding gigs was tough and you got paid zilch,then you knock the odd ep out and send it off in the post etc These days you dont need gigs to reach thousands of potential fans.The kids still have their bands like we did .My sons into grime and stuff and its a healthy as can be expected Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phil Starr Posted January 2, 2018 Share Posted January 2, 2018 New original rock bands? Rock is the music of my generation, the music of 40 years ago. It's a bit like asking why no-one writes original Dixieland Jazz, original Blues music or even original Britpop. Styles just come and go. Don't get me wrong I love all these and more but whilst there will always be people who love this style or that and will write tributes in the style they love most creative people will push the boundaries on from the music they grew up with. We're several generations on from true Rock so why would you expect people to doggedly stay in one place. There are plenty of successful bands and musicians around, music goes on and keeps changing, good luck to the kids there's no reason for them to humour our tastes. At least so far fashion still demands drummers and bassists 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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