Vintage Instruments: Quality or Psychosomatics?

[FinnDave]

I've been playing bass for 45 years, and quite honestly, have never played anything that fits me any better than my small collection of fairly recent US Standard Precisions. Having them set up professionally rather than doing it myself was a bit of an eye opener, though.

[Cuzzie]

@Al Krow you are not mis quoting me again are you, or changing what I said......

[Al Krow]

Only the bit about the bass player being better, to give it some anonymising context, which to be fair he is right?

 

Edited January 2, 2018 by Al Krow

[Cuzzie]

If it speaks to you, it speaks to you 40 years or 40 seconds old, but the key is the set up, and probably newer instruments are easier to set up well for the average luthier/bassists who do their own

[Frank Blank]

1 hour ago, FinnDave said:

I've been playing bass for 45 years, and quite honestly, have never played anything that fits me any better than my small collection of fairly recent US Standard Precisions. Having them set up professionally rather than doing it myself was a bit of an eye opener, though.

I’m not far behind at 36 years playing. After years of attempting to have my basses set up by inexperienced bass techs who talked the talk without the requisite walk or staff in music shops who weren’t much better, I finally found Guitar Technical Services and after my first bass was set up there I realised not only that I had never had a guitar or bass set up correctly by anyone before but also that I had never even played a correctly set up bass. Eye opener indeed.

[BigRedX]

I've never understood the obsession with resale value.

Maybe because I've never bought any instrument with an eye to selling it on at some point. I've always bought because I have an actual need for the instrument at that particular moment in time. If I can afford it and it's something I'm going to use then I'll buy it. At the time I rarely think I'll be selling it later. If at some point I no longer need it I'll probably sell it or if I think I might use it again in the future it will go into storage. When I sell stuff sometimes I make money compared with what I originally paid for it, and sometimes I lose money. If I loose money, I look at the that amount as the rental value of the instrument for the time I was using it.

TBH the amount I've spent on guitars and basses in real terms is small beans compared with what I was spending on synthesisers in the 80s.

[Cuzzie]

Precisely the above

[Al Krow]

All basses get moved on in the end.

[GuyR]

14 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

I've never understood the obsession with resale value.

Maybe because I've never bought any instrument with an eye to selling it on at some point. I've always bought because I have an actual need for the instrument at that particular moment in time. If I can afford it and it's something I'm going to use then I'll buy it. At the time I rarely think I'll be selling it later. If at some point I no longer need it I'll probably sell it or if I think I might use it again in the future it will go into storage. When I sell stuff sometimes I make money compared with what I originally paid for it, and sometimes I lose money. If I loose money, I look at the that amount as the rental value of the instrument for the time I was using it.

TBH the amount I've spent on guitars and basses in real terms is small beans compared with what I was spending on synthesisers in the 80s.

An excellent and pragmatic approach. 

I don't necessarily agree there is a widespread obsession with resale value. Certainly with regard to vintage purchases, I never buy with any anticipation or purpose of potential future profit. I just like playing and having permanent unrestricted access to fabulous vintage basses and guitars. The notion that you might not lose money in the unpalatable event that you might need to part with them is at best a fringe benefit. Others may feel differently, but it is none of my business if they do.

[Woodinblack]

5 hours ago, Frank Blank said:

I agree. I suppose the modern construction techniques even the basses out into a plateau of quality whereas the hand assembly, as you say, turns out dogs, middle ground and gems. Do you really think that the lesser or middling ones really get destroyed or do they make it through history in the hands of less discering players until they are past the line and become vintage and valuable regardless of tone and playability?

I am sure some did, and I am always suspicious of the 'found in an attic never played since 1965' - why? You bought something really expensive back then and didn't play it? What was wrong with it? Almost certainly it meant you had something you preferred.

I have played some absolutely awful 1970s fenders both back in the day, and recently but also some good. I still like to think a lot of the poorer ones got burned, but maybe they didn't.

I know if I was buying an ibanez, I would be happy to buy it over the internet without playing it. If I was buying an older fender, I wouldn't dream of doing that!

[BigRedX]

12 hours ago, Al Krow said:

All basses get moved on in the end.

Really?

I still own my very first bass, and the main 4 basses I use these days (two Gus G3s, a Warwick StarBass, and a Sei Flamboyant) are the 4 perfect basses for me and I have no need or desire to sell them or replace them with something else. 

[BigRedX]

12 hours ago, GuyR said:

I don't necessarily agree there is a widespread obsession with resale value. 

To me it is certainly very noticeable when anyone buys or commissions a build of something unusual (for that read something that doesn't look like a Fender P or J). IMO if you buy or have something made for you with an eye on the potential resale value, you are very unlikely to end up with an instrument that you want to keep.

[Grangur]

All basses get sold in the end. That's why I think of myself as only being the custodian of mine. At least I like to think they will out live me. I can't see any reason why they won't even if certain components need replacing at some stage.

So, assuming I get to carry on playing 'til I go, it may be my family that sells them on. But you can be safe in the knowledge that all my basses will get sold one day.

Perhaps, @BigRedX you've devised a plan that none us us, mere mortals, have worked out?

[bassbiscuits]

I own one vintage bass - a 1970 precision.

I bought it 24 years ago, when it was merely old, but nice, because it played, felt and sounded great.

It wasn't for any sort of investment, or an ego trip. It was just the best secondhand bass i could afford at the time.

What distinguishes it from the other newer basses I've owned since, is that its very comfortable and played-in from 48 years of use. Its super lightweight because the wood has spent years drying out, it has a beautiful woody, mellow sound reflecting nearly half a century of the wood reverberating, the lacquer has all aged to a beautiful amber and the paintwork is far more authentic than any modern relic I've seen.

None of this makes it the best bass ever. But it is a very cool, usable instrument.

Replacing it with the equivalent USA P bass you could buy new today would give you a very different instrument, which some might prefer, but other might not. 

[Woodinblack]

40 minutes ago, BigRedX said:

To me it is certainly very noticeable when anyone buys or commissions a build of something unusual (for that read something that doesn't look like a Fender P or J). IMO if you buy or have something made for you with an eye on the potential resale value, you are very unlikely to end up with an instrument that you want to keep.

Agreed, you know if you get something custom it is going to lose you money if you ever sell it, compared to buying something like a fender custom shop. However, in the meantime you will probably have a much better instrument, so you are doing it for what you like, not what will sell.

Which is why I need to stop looking at that Maruszczyk frog page..

[BigRedX]

2 minutes ago, Grangur said:

All basses get sold in the end. That's why I think of myself as only being the custodian of mine. At least I like to think they will out live me. I can't see any reason why they won't even if certain components need replacing at some stage.

So, assuming I get to carry on playing 'til I go, it may be my family that sells them on. But you can be safe in the knowledge that all my basses will get sold one day.

Perhaps, @BigRedX you've devised a plan that none us us, mere mortals, have worked out?

Ideally I'd want my instruments buried with me in my Egyptian style hidden tomb. ;-)

In the real world I really don't care what happens to them when I'm dead. None of my family is sufficiently interested enough to want to have them once I'm no longer using them. Maybe by the time that happens some of them will be sought-after desirable instruments with a value to reflect this. maybe they won't. However unless my circumstances change in a way that I haven't yet anticipated they won't be sold within my lifetime. And that's what counts.

[Al Krow]

Egyptian style hidden tombs are generally not cheap, unless you can get a MIM version. The build quality is not noticeably different, provided they have been set up properly.

[Woodinblack]

25 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Egyptian style hidden tombs are generally not cheap, unless you can get a MIM version. The build quality is not noticeably different, provided they have been set up properly.

Their chinese manufactured brands are just as good these days if you are not a label snob, thats what I am going for!

[Dad3353]

1 hour ago, Al Krow said:

Egyptian style hidden tombs are generally not cheap, unless you can get a MIM version. The build quality is not noticeably different, provided they have been set up properly.

I had one, but can't remember where I hid it. 

[pmjos]

Best sounding bass I have every played was a 1962 Jazz. Hands down over anything else. The tone, the resonance, the attack, the feel, the weight and the look.  Now I would not have given a flying fudge had it have been made last year or by the WooHoo manufacturing company of Singapore. It was however hand made to the last nut by Fender in the Fullerton in 1962. These things are valued because they are good and in many cases better than good.  These are the very bones of our musical history and they are irreplaceable. There are many companies making a living building 'just like Leo' basses and charging an arm and a leg for them. They aspire to create 'that sound'.

Why if people have the money should they not want one? But who has that kind of money?

How many people on here have cars that cost over £15k and loose 20% plus every year. Err.....go get a cheap old junk yard dog and buy a vintage Fender. Keep it for5 years and make 30% plus. Hmmm................what can the attraction be?

 

 

[neilp]

22 hours ago, Al Krow said:

All basses get moved on in the end.

No. I have four basses and a double bass that are going nowhere

[Al Krow]

And when you're 93?

[Dan Dare]

Just now, Al Krow said:

And when you're 93?

Or brown bread?

[Al Krow]

Unless of you're course you're thinking of having them buried with you in a hidden Egyptian tomb as @BigRedX plans to (see above). We've advised that given the costs of such structures he should go for a MIM version or possibly a modern Chinese factory. Whichever option the tomb should be properly set up.

Otherwise...All basses get moved on in the end.

Edited January 3, 2018 by Al Krow

[Dan Dare]

Don't forget to leave a note in your will about the real value of those instruments you told the family you'd picked up for fifty quid. Otherwise they'll flog them to Cash Converters for bugger all.