Vintage Instruments: Quality or Psychosomatics?

[Bluewine]

3 hours ago, Al Krow said:

When it comes to craftsmanship, things don't necessarily improve. Are any of today's violins better than the ones Stradivarius made, or any of today's painters better than Michaelangelo, or playwrights better than Shakespeare? Genius is genius.

What will have improved is technology. Today's pups will, 9 times out of 10, be an improvement on stuff that was around 40 years ago and the same for the electrics / pre-amps. And if I was to hazard a guess at what the two single most important factors on bass tone on the bass itself (as opposed to the rest of the signal chain), I would go for (i) the pups and (ii) the preamp. 

So give me a modern well designed bass (whether based on a classic body shape or not) made from decent woods, without fear of a warped neck that time and low B string tension have taken their toll on or flaky electrics, and with some great pups and I'm pretty sure I won't be yearning for a better past.

I'm just not sure.

Production & quality control have come a long way since the 70s. The days where made in China or Korea automatically meant crap are pretty much over.

Not that I would by one but I've heard credible musicians rave about Harley Benton. Apparently you can by a perfectly good playable Jazz Bass for $149.00.

HB copy of a Fender Vintage Seriies Jazz. Looks pretty sweet to me.

Blue

Edited January 5, 2018 by Bluewine

[BigRedX]

10 hours ago, Al Krow said:

So give me a modern well designed bass (whether based on a classic body shape or not) made from decent woods, without fear of a warped neck that time and low B string tension have taken their toll on or flaky electrics, and with some great pups and I'm pretty sure I won't be yearning for a better past.

Actually the low B should be the least of your worries as, it will be the lowest tension string on your bass. 

[Woodinblack]

11 hours ago, Al Krow said:

When it comes to craftsmanship, things don't necessarily improve. Are any of today's violins better than the ones Stradivarius made

As an aside, yes they are. In a test that was done with a real Stradivarius (and other classics) and high end modern violins, the concert violinists picked out the modern violin as the better one.

When they later redid the test but told the players that it was a real Stradivarius, all of them preferred it. 

Shows how powerful the mind is over the senses.

http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/05/million-dollar-strads-fall-modern-violins-blind-sound-check

[Woodinblack]

8 hours ago, Bluewine said:

Not that I would by one but I've heard credible musicians rave about Harley Benton. Apparently you can by a perfectly good playable Jazz Bass for $149.00.

I did buy one and it was one of the best sounding and playing Jazz basses I have had (I have only had 2 though, both fenders). I would still have it apart from its one flaw, its extreme weight. The thing weighed a ton. Not sure if that is what gave it its sound, but it was too much for me.

[Bluewine]

25 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

I did buy one and it was one of the best sounding and playing Jazz basses I have had (I have only had 2 though, both fenders). I would still have it apart from its one flaw, its extreme weight. The thing weighed a ton. Not sure if that is what gave it its sound, but it was too much for me.

HB also has Thunderbird knock off with an active PU.

I wonder how it stacks up against what I considered those expensive Epiphone Thunderbirds.

Blue

Edited January 5, 2018 by Bluewine

[pmjos]

I think , like most threads on this subject, has got a bit silly.

Q.   Oh, hello is this the room where we can argue about the merits of vintage over new guitars or vice-versa........

A.   That depends on how old you are, your demographic, musical taste, political views on the acquisition of capital, experience as a musician, disposable income, personal values, ethnicity, Geo-social background, how big your house is, how many strings you like if you have a bad back, how many fingers you have or if you are mentally scarred because your evil grandad used to beat you with a 1961 Stacknob jazz bass neck that once belonged to Jaco..............

My point is that an instrument is only ever what it is. A few bits of wood and metal. That is it. It has not value save what we place on it -Its value new or old is entirely subjective.

Why ask 37,000 people what is better - go play some and decide for yourself. Go try some and form an opinion - tell us what you found. We are here for you.

 

[wateroftyne]

Just now, pmjos said:

I think , like most threads on this subject, has got a bit silly.

Q.   Oh, hello is this the room where we can argue about the merits of vintage over new guitars or vice-versa........

A.   That depends on how old you are, your demographic, musical taste, political views on the acquisition of capital, experience as a musician, disposable income, personal values, ethnicity, Geo-social background, how big your house is, how many strings you like if you have a bad back, how many fingers you have or if you are mentally scarred because your evil grandad used to beat you with a 1961 Stacknob jazz bass neck that once belonged to Jaco..............

My point is that an instrument is only ever what it is. A few bits of wood and metal. That is it. It has not value save what we place on it -Its value new or old is entirely subjective.

Why ask 37,000 people what is better - go play some and decide for yourself. Go try some and form an opinion - tell us what you found. We are here for you.

 

Yeah... I hate it when threads are ruined by discussion, too.

[discreet]

22 minutes ago, pmjos said:

I think , like most threads on this subject, has got a bit silly.

Not as silly as bad grammar, or putting a space in front of a comma. Ftang! Ftang! Snurble! Wibble! Fweep! 

[Beedster]

28 minutes ago, wateroftyne said:

Yeah... I hate it when threads are ruined by discussion, too.

Bassnotchat

[Beedster]

This from 10 years ago is relevant 

 

[dmccombe7]

1 hour ago, pmjos said:

if you are mentally scarred because your evil grandad used to beat you with a 1961 Stacknob jazz bass neck that once belonged to Jaco..............

 

 

So you've met my Grandad then 

[wateroftyne]

42 minutes ago, Beedster said:

This from 10 years ago is relevant 

 

I remember when that thread was all fields.

[Grangur]

1 hour ago, pmjos said:

I think , like most threads on this subject, has got a bit silly...

 

1 hour ago, discreet said:

Not as silly as bad grammar, or putting a space in front of a comma. Ftang! Ftang! Snurble! Wibble! Fweep! 

Hey, come on @discreet,  you can do better than that, there's a word missing! The subject of the sentence is missing. 

Corrected:     "I think, like most threads on this subject, this one has got a bit silly."

Come on, if you're going to split hairs, really go for the jugular.

[pmjos]

50 minutes ago, dmccombe7 said:

So you've met my Grandad then 

I am your Grandad............

[wateroftyne]

Actually, I'd take issue with the entire sentence, not just the grammar. I suggest the following:

"Like most threads on this subject, this has become a bit silly."

I've removed "I think..." as it's self-evident. I've then reversed what remains, arming the reader with context before delivery of the salient point.

Edited January 5, 2018 by wateroftyne

[Dad3353]

7 minutes ago, wateroftyne said:

Actually, I'd take issue with the entire sentence, not just the grammar. I suggest the following:

"Like most threads on this subject, this has become a bit silly."

I've removed "I think..." as it's self-evident. I've then reversed what remains, arming the reader with context before delivery of the salient point.

Not entirely convinced by the 'LIke most...'; I'd have preferred 'As with so many ...' 

Edited January 5, 2018 by Dad3353

[wateroftyne]

10 minutes ago, Dad3353 said:

Not entirely convinced by the 'LIke most...'; I'd have preferred 'As with so many ...' 

I agree, albeit with a tweak. So here's where we are now:

"As with most threads on this subject, this has become a bit silly."

Any other suggestions?

Edited January 5, 2018 by wateroftyne

[mikel]

11 minutes ago, Dad3353 said:

Not entirely convinced by the 'LIke most...'; I'd have preferred 'As with so many ...' 

Or if you were a Times reader.  "Am I alone in thinking this has become a trifle silly?" 

Edited January 5, 2018 by mikel
Spelling.

[pmjos]

I'm sorry, I come from Essex. English is not my first language - init

Edited January 5, 2018 by pmjos
Grammar correction

[dmccombe7]

12 minutes ago, pmjos said:

I'm sorry, I come from Essex. English is not my first language - init

Ok grandad 

PS Can you lend your Grandson £5k for an old bass 

Edited January 5, 2018 by dmccombe7

[discreet]

34 minutes ago, mikel said:

Or if you were a Times reader.  "Am I alone in thinking this has become a trifle silly?" 

Whats trifle got ro do with it? Am I alone in thinking it should be the subject of a separate thread? *sticks banana up bum and votes conservative*

[wateroftyne]

1 minute ago, discreet said:

*sticks banana up bum and votes conservative*

Ah, hello Mr. Rees Mogg! I had no idea you were a BCer..?

[Al Krow]

Can we go back to discussing Egyptian tombs, now, please? 

[Steve Browning]

45 minutes ago, wateroftyne said:

I agree, albeit with a tweak. So here's where we are now:

"As with most threads on this subject, this has become a bit silly."

Any other suggestions?

I think you should append the statistics that support your assertion that it is, indeed, 'most' threads.

[Grangur]

Just now, Al Krow said:

Can we go back to discussing Egyptian tombs, now, please? 

Oo er... Mummy's come in to check on us.