Amp choice conundrum

[Twanger]

I’m writing this more to work out what I think rather than fish for advice, but I would really appreciate any comments.

I am getting back into bass playing after a long absence, and I have choices to make. One is about amps. At the moment I am playing through a 3 watt Orange microcrush guitar amp which I am using as a headphone amp. It works well as long as my (passive) bass is going through some kind of preamp – I have a Sadowsky belt clip and an old model Sansamp BDDI both of which voice the bass well, and allow some EQ.  I have bought a cheap (£20) Behringer line mixer, which lets me run a computer/ mp3 player through at the same time.  In some ways, this is better than having a straight aux in to the amp, as I can balance the two stereo channels of the aux input to de-emphasise the bass guitar in whatever I’m playing along to. But with bass -> preamp -> line mixer -> amp -> headphones there are a lot of cables around the top of my chest of drawers which Mrs Twanger ain’t so keen on.

And there does come a time in a man’s life when headphone setups don’t always cut it.

But I don’t know – yet – whether my rediscovery of the bass is going to stick.  And if it does, will I remain a bedroom player, or will I play with others again? It’s 12 years since I last gigged, and 15 years since I last gigged on bass.

So I am going for an amp, but do I go for tone first or do I go for flexibility? I could go for something like a small Phil Jones amp, or a Micromark 801, which would sound great at home, and perhaps in acoustic jams, or I could go for a Fender Rumble 40, which would be better for any coffee shop gigs I may find myself playing? Now, I know Fender amps – I have played through a large number of Fender bass amps over the past 40 years - and I know that while they are excellent for jamming, rehearsing, playing out and even recording they do not, and never have, really articulated the tone of the bass in the way that a more hifi amp will. The new Rumbles are the best of the cheaper Fender amps I’ve ever played through, but to an extent you’re not getting your tone. You’re getting Fender’s take on your tone. Normally a good take, but still someone else’s.

But I don’t think you can really gig with the Markbass 801 - not the one I tried. And what I have read about the Phil Jones suggests the same. So I would end up needing another amp if I end up gigging. But with the Rumble 40, despite its “only 40 watts”, I think you could. I used to have a BXR 25 which was perfectly giggable acoustically. The Rumble 40 is much louder and punchier.

So. Do I get something good for home and another amp later, or something that is more like a Swiss Army knife, cheaper, and a fairly good for everything?

[Phil Starr]

You need to give us an idea of budget. If money is no object there are some lovely sounding and small combos that would do all you are likely to need. The AER Amp One and the Markbass Alain Caron models come to mind. Or one of the 3-500W class D lightweight amps with a decent 12" speaker if you don't mind separates. Your choice there is pretty unlimited but if your budget is limited to a Rumble 40 then you are asking a different question.

[Twanger]

That's a good point. I could afford a Phil Jones Cub. I could get a Rumble 500 on the never never. The AER types are beyond my means. Say £500 tops, but less is better. I need to justify what I spend. If I knew I was going to be gigging seriously, then I'd go straight out and spend what was necessary to buy what I needed. That ain't the case yet.

[Dan Dare]

You say you don't know whether you will stick with it, so I'd avoid buying new. You always lose money on new stuff when you sell it. I'd go for a something modest like a secondhand Rumble and see how things pan out.

[Twanger]

That's sensible. On the other hand, an investment in something new would boost the sticking with it-ness of it all.

[CameronJ]

Since you’re looking at Phil Jones anyway, how about this...

http://www.bassdirect.co.uk/bass_guitar_specialists/PJB_Flightcase_150w_combo.html

You wouldn’t make much (if any) of a loss if selling it on around these parts.

[Twanger]

Too many choices. But thanks for this. It's making me think...

[Lozz196]

Yep, for the same size/footprint as a 50 watt combo you could pick up a decent enough 1x12 cab and something like a Gallien Krueger MB200 or TC Electronic BH250 off of here/gumtree/ebay 2nd hand, and then have plenty enough power. Probably do that for £350ish, maybe less.

[Dan Dare]

5 hours ago, CameronJ said:

Since you’re looking at Phil Jones anyway, how about this...

http://www.bassdirect.co.uk/bass_guitar_specialists/PJB_Flightcase_150w_combo.html

You wouldn’t make much (if any) of a loss if selling it on around these parts.

Have to disagree. I sold a mint Flightcase and got a lot less than that for it.

[chris_b]

You want to start using an amp, need something small with a good sound and don't know if you'll be gigging.

I'd look at one of the Markbass 112 combos and add an extension cab if you decide to rehearse or gig.

[Dan Dare]

15 hours ago, Twanger said:

That's sensible. On the other hand, an investment in something new would boost the sticking with it-ness of it all.

Maybe. In my experience, if I find I don't like something, I don't like it.

[chris_b]

17 hours ago, Twanger said:

That's sensible. On the other hand, an investment in something new would boost the sticking with it-ness of it all.

Nooo. Why would you stick with playing bass only because you spent £500 on a new amp rather than £300 on a used one? I don't get that logic.

You should buy the best used amp for the least. Then if you decide to stick at it you can look at more expensive gear down the line.

[Dazed]

I smell GAS 😄

 

Personally I would buy something second hand, if it’s for use at home not something you will be relying on to gig with. 

The great thing about used gear is generally you can sell it on for what you paid. I got a Markbass 121 P combo in a trade a few years ago. Small, light, sounded great, flexible tonally. Ultimately overkill for my needs at home so I sold it for what it owed me. Basically a free rental for 12 + months. 

I knew I wouldn’t need anything to gig with. I wanted something very small light portable and sounded good. After looking around for a while i decided a Phil Jones Double4 was exactly what I needed. I was lucky and got a really good deal on one. 

My advice would be decide what you can realistically afford, avoid credit, define what you need from it now and then start looking. You can always trade up if you decide to take it further in future. 

Edited January 4, 2018 by Dazed

[Twanger]

All sensible stuff. And yes, you smell right. But I’m fighting it!!

[Andy H.]

I do plenty small gigs and jams with a Micromark 801. (Sure you didn’t try the 6” version = black speaker? That sounds great too but is pretty much limited to smaller acoustic sessions.) The 801 positioned carefully though can be quite surprising when pushed. I often put it on a beer crate to calm the bottom end. Have used it at smaller jams with drums and it did fine. Vastly preferred it to a PJB Bass Cub 100 which went straight back.

I do have (much) bigger rigs though. If it is going to be your only amp (meantime anyway) and just for home use / not too loud jams etc than the 801 is excellent and pretty much indestructible. But you can pick some nice and way more powerful combos for less second hand. Fenders can be good, don’t dismiss Peavey gear either - it works and generally keeps on working. Lots of other choices to GAS about too...

[Al Krow]

11 hours ago, Dazed said:

I smell GAS 😄

Personally I would buy something second hand, if it’s for use at home not something you will be relying on to gig with. 

The great thing about used gear is generally you can sell it on for what you paid. I got a Markbass 121 P combo in a trade a few years ago. Small, light, sounded great, flexible tonally. Ultimately overkill for my needs at home so I sold it for what it owed me. Basically a free rental for 12 + months. 

I knew I wouldn’t need anything to gig with. I wanted something very small light portable and sounded good. After looking around for a while i decided a Phil Jones Double4 was exactly what I needed. I was lucky and got a really good deal on one. 

My advice would be decide what you can realistically afford, avoid credit, define what you need from it now and then start looking. You can always trade up if you decide to take it further in future. 

Spot on. 

If you have up to £500 budget and like the 'one stop' solution of a quality Markbass combo then you could do far worse than a second hand Markbass121P or an 802. But there are a lot of great options out there. I personally would recommend going for a min 250W to give yourself enough headroom to jam with a guitarist and drummer and be comfortably heard.

[CameronJ]

On 03/01/2018 at 00:36, Dan Dare said:

Have to disagree. I sold a mint Flightcase and got a lot less than that for it.

Ah - I stand corrected!

[CameronJ]

How about this little rig? Collection only but a good price and you wouldn’t have to worry about having enough juice at jams and gigs.

 

[Twanger]

OK, I've decided to go all sensible for the time being. The point is that I don't actually NEED an amp just right now. I can go on playing through the headphones. The sound's good, and I don't annoy Mrs Twanger and the neighbours.  I'll only actually need an amp when I start playing with others. And the time to buy, perhaps, is when that happens. Then I'll have a real playing context in mind and would be able to make a more considered decision, based on, you know, real needs. Then I won't have to worry about a hypothetical playoff between tone and flexibility, or between sound and portability. I'll need a real tool to do a real job.

I know I am violating all the laws and precepts of the gods of GAS in doing this, but they'll have to forgive me!

Thank you for all your contributions to keeping me sane.

[CameronJ]

The GAS gods are angered but merciful. On this occasion you have been spared their wrath. Should you displease them once more you may not be so fortunate...

[Twanger]

Oh, I've made many sacrifices on the altars of the gods before - Rob Allen MB2 , Stu Hamm sig, '64 Jazz (yes, a real one), cusp Fender Showman head.....and haven't lost too much on the resale, so I think I have done enough to be let off this time.

[Andy H.]

Very sensible. You can always keep your GAS on a low flame by trying out any amps you get a chance to. That also has the side benefit of giving you an idea what might work for you in the future. There is plenty of great gear out there to scorch your bank balance one day.