Mesa gear query

[Pow_22]

As a baked-in Ampeg Valve fan boy I was really taken aback by the sound Mani got on the Roses tour a few years back.  He was using a Big Block 750 through what I assume was an 8x10 and had a very thick, beefy and valvey type tone.  Enough for me to consider replacing my V4B with one, resisted so far tho

[LukeFRC]

2 hours ago, Pow_22 said:

As a baked-in Ampeg Valve fan boy I was really taken aback by the sound Mani got on the Roses tour a few years back.  He was using a Big Block 750 through what I assume was an 8x10 and had a very thick, beefy and valvey type tone.  Enough for me to consider replacing my V4B with one, resisted so far tho

I think he was selling that very amp off recently...

[mcnach]

6 hours ago, dmccombe7 said:

So the D800 doesn't compare with D800+ ? Does the additional EQ offered make that much of a difference or can you still get a decent tone form the more basic D800. 

A lot of people using Mesa gear mention that the flat settings on their amp gives them the tone they like. Is that not the case with the D800 range. ?

I'm curious to know if using the same cabs with both amps did you use the same or similar EQ settings or did the flat settings on both sound the same.

Dave

 

To me the semiparametric mids on the D800+ is a nice touch but I didn't need it. I found the D800 nice, but a little 'dark'. The D800+ has a 'bright' switch which stays on permanently in mine and gives it a character that I like a lot, before I touch the EQ. Turning up treble on the D800 just wasn't doing it. Now, the D800+ has a built-in adjustable High Pass Filter, which is its secret weapon, to me. The thing I love the most about the D800+ is that I can get fat, well defined lows without being boomy/overpowering. Playing a little with the voicing and HPF controls, and adjusting the bass EQ gets me a really nice sound easily. I cannot describe it better than that... The D800 was ok for me but didn't give me GAS. I am very happy with the D800+, however.

[dmccombe7]

Cheers McNach that explains it and i get what you mean. 

Had a wee listen to some of your bands there. Nice rounded tone with URANG MATANG. Bands sound tight and looks like all having fun. 

Dave

[blackparkas]

I have the M9 Carbine Head and tha PH412 and PH215 enclosures.

I´ve loved my Sunn 300T for many years, but it broke down on me a summer with a lot of gigs and I had to buy something quick.
Enter the M9.

For me, there is nothing on the market that could make me wanna change gear.
Except maybe for the Mesa Strategy or the Fender Super Bassman.
But since the M9 is rather lightweight (remember I´m used to the Sunn, SVT:s etc) it´s going to stay forever...

I mostly play a 65 P-bass with the M9 and the PH215-speaker.
When I play metal, i use one of my Warwicks with the M9 and PH412, but I could easily use the 215 for the metalstuff as well.

I like lots of mids and pretty much low end.
I don´t like so much top-treble-fizzle...


If lightweight isn´t important.
I´d skip the Subway-cabs.
I´ve only tried the smallest ones but they didnt work for me at all...

The D800 is the best Lightweight amp around, if you ask me.
The only lightweight amp that doesn´t feel like a compromise soundwise.
It´s all there.

But I´d go for Powerhouse Cab.
The 215 and 412, 810 and 610 are really easy to move around with handles everywhere and not Aguilar/Ampeg-heavy....

[mcnach]

46 minutes ago, dmccombe7 said:

Cheers McNach that explains it and i get what you mean. 

Had a wee listen to some of your bands there. Nice rounded tone with URANG MATANG. Bands sound tight and looks like all having fun. 

Dave

 

Thank you

Yeah, it's got to be fun, we don't make enough money to put up with the whole thing if it weren't

[Wolverinebass]

1 hour ago, blackparkas said:

But I´d go for Powerhouse Cab.
The 215 and 412, 810 and 610 are really easy to move around with handles everywhere and not Aguilar/Ampeg-heavy....

The 4x12 weighs 61kg. Not exactly light on a set of stairs I'd wager. Pity. If it was 20kg lighter I might buy it.

[silverfoxnik]

9 hours ago, Pow_22 said:

As a baked-in Ampeg Valve fan boy I was really taken aback by the sound Mani got on the Roses tour a few years back.  He was using a Big Block 750 through what I assume was an 8x10 and had a very thick, beefy and valvey type tone.  Enough for me to consider replacing my V4B with one, resisted so far tho

Interesting...

I've just bought a Big Block 750 and it sounds fantastic to my ears when paired with a Berg 212 AE; and that's when using it with range of different basses, 4 and 5 strings, active, passive etc..

It's loud but with plenty of headroom, has very good mids and loads of low end. More importantly, it has that 'authority' and 'heft' (or should that be 'weight') that I would normally associate with an all valve amp. 

I say that because I've A/B'd it against my Ampeg V4BH - which has a lovely warm and sweet tone to it - and it compares really well and, whilst it's not quite as warm sounding, it's got more detail in the mid range and more power, as well as a fantastic overdrive sound to it. 

Overall, I'm very impressed with the Big Block and as my introduction to Mesa's bass gear, it's created a very good first impression.

 

[blackparkas]

4 hours ago, Wolverinebass said:

The 4x12 weighs 61kg. Not exactly light on a set of stairs I'd wager. Pity. If it was 20kg lighter I might buy it.

Well, it certainly doesn´t feel like 61kg.
I´ve had som big cabs and the PH412 I have is WAY lighter than an Ampeg 810 or the Aguilar 412 (had them both)
I would have guessed around 50-55kg, since it feels just a tad heavier than the Marshall JCM800 412.
It also has handles on the top, sides and on the bottom.
Sooooo much easier to move/lift compared with the Ampeg or Aguilar who only has handles on the top.
I lift it in and out of cars by myself.
Stairs?
I´d rather take the PH412 than the Ampeg/Aguilar fridges, of course it makes things easier if you´re two.
But if you´re into cabs in these sizes, you get help lifting it in stairs etc anyway.
What 412 cab weights 40kg and still delivers just as good?

Mine is a the vintage-type.
Is it perhaps lighter than the standard?

[Wolverinebass]

13 hours ago, blackparkas said:

Well, it certainly doesn´t feel like 61kg.
I´ve had som big cabs and the PH412 I have is WAY lighter than an Ampeg 810 or the Aguilar 412 (had them both)
I would have guessed around 50-55kg, since it feels just a tad heavier than the Marshall JCM800 412.
It also has handles on the top, sides and on the bottom.
Sooooo much easier to move/lift compared with the Ampeg or Aguilar who only has handles on the top.
I lift it in and out of cars by myself.
Stairs?
I´d rather take the PH412 than the Ampeg/Aguilar fridges, of course it makes things easier if you´re two.
But if you´re into cabs in these sizes, you get help lifting it in stairs etc anyway.
What 412 cab weights 40kg and still delivers just as good?

Mine is a the vintage-type.
Is it perhaps lighter than the standard?

The Aguilar is 67kg. Yeah, I'd imagine if you have the cloth grill on the Mesa you're saving your back for maybe 5kg, but it's still heavy. The only 4x12s I know that are less are the GK (43kg) and Schroeder (37kg). I hasten to say I've not played them.

[chris_b]

14 hours ago, blackparkas said:

But I´d go for Powerhouse Cab.
The 215 and 412, 810 and 610 are really easy to move around with handles everywhere and not Aguilar/Ampeg-heavy....

Your Mesa amp sitting on a Barefaced 610 would sound like thunder.

[blackparkas]

4 hours ago, Wolverinebass said:

The Aguilar is 67kg. Yeah, I'd imagine if you have the cloth grill on the Mesa you're saving your back for maybe 5kg, but it's still heavy. The only 4x12s I know that are less are the GK (43kg) and Schroeder (37kg). I hasten to say I've not played them.

I´ve owned a Aguilar DB412 and I own a PH412.
It must be more than 7kg between them in real life, beyond the tech-specs...
The PH412 I can lift in and out of the car by myself.
The Aggie was ALMOST impossible to manage by myself.

[blackparkas]

3 hours ago, chris_b said:

Your Mesa amp sitting on a Barefaced 610 would sound like thunder.

Probably!
But I don´t like 10´s.
Twelves and even better - 15" is the perfect match for me.
But I´m not looking for amps/cabs.
I´m totally home with my gear.
It´s still lightweight compared to the Sunn 300T and 2 JCM800-cabs.

[40hz]

FWIW the M-Pulse 600 is the best bass head I've ever used in my 14 years of playing. That thing sounded beyond belief. IMO, UK pricing on Boogie stuff is mad however.

[Steve Browning]

15 hours ago, 40hz said:

FWIW the M-Pulse 600 is the best bass head I've ever used in my 14 years of playing. That thing sounded beyond belief. IMO, UK pricing on Boogie stuff is mad however.

Certainly, of the 'newer' stuff. I would still use my Bass 400 if it were lighter but there's very little in it and the weight of the Bass 400 is what tips the scales. The same with the Subway cabs. I got of my Diesel 2x15 because I just didn't need it any more. The two Subway 15s do the same job and just as well.

[dmccombe7]

I've got 15" 12" and 10" cabs that i can use as a mix and match if you like but i'm finding the 12" cabs are more the ideal speaker size for me.

Combines a decent low end depth with reasonable mid to high end clarity. I don't use a treble heavy EQ so 12" just seem to fit that bill better.

Listened to some of the Mesa review VIDS on youtube and altho not much in it i can hear the difference between the 12" & 15" cabs but their 12" cab is so sweet sounding and that's the Subway range with the D800 amps 

I could see me trying that rig out in Guitar Guitar if in stock. 

Listened to comparisons of M6 Carbine against D800 and tone does seem very similar ie they both have that lovely warm smooth but clear tone that i like.

Its a lot of money for D800+ and 2off Subway 12" cabs tho. Think its circa £2500 so might need to sell off some gear first.  

[Al Krow]

22 minutes ago, dmccombe7 said:

Listened to comparisons of M6 Carbine against D800 and tone does seem very similar ie they both have that lovely warm smooth but clear tone that i like.

Oooh that's interesting - I didn't find that the D800 came anywhere near close enough to the warmth / creamy tones of my M6. 

Did you manage to A/B them through the same gear?

If you were looking to save money, I'd really recommend getting a VK or BF cab instead of the Mesa cabs. They really are both very good alternative options.

[HazBeen]

Venture MPulse 600 as my main (basically a slant head version of the MPulse 600), I have tried to find a lighter alternative but as far as the sound goes the warm, round defined tone it gives me is one of the best bass tones I’ve ever had and has not been surpassed since buying my 1st MPulse. I tried a D800 which was a great amp, but a little dark for my taste.

I also owned a Walkabout 15 (sold it to Beedster of this very parish) which was great for smaller gigs, sounded different to the MPulse but had the same warm, round tone.

I tried an M6 which personally did not do it for me compared to the MPulse, the BigBlock 750 I tried was another tone I loved, wouldn’t mind having one.

And the 400/400+ is still one of the most highly regarded all valve amps out there.

[Sean]

1. What makes owners of Mesa gear like it so much. (general question about Mesa gear ie build quality, support and availability) - Sound, build quality, character. I have more compliments about my sound when using Mesa gear than any other.

2. What is it that made you pick that particular amp over others. (in respect to other Mesa amps or cabs and maybe in respect to other manufacturers gear) The 400+ is iconic. There's a reason it's one of the default models on Logic Pro X. It gives me a sound I absolutely love. Bass = 3, Treble = 3, MIddle = 10. I have a Walkabout Scout 12 too and use that with it's own 1x12 combo or with a BF TWO10. Both have very similar flavour sounds and cut through the mix. The 400+ is used either through a BF Big Twin 2 or a SIX10.

3. Is there a favoured set up that majority of owners prefer or would prefer. Not particularly. I change mine depending on the venue, my mood, whatever.

4. Can you describe briefly your preferred tone (ie, warm, mellow, mid-punch, heavy bottom end, high top end are just some things i can think off). A middy clank not unlike Duff McKagan, a thumping P-bass with flats depending on the song. Both the 400+ and the Walkabout get me where I need to be. Once you've learned how to quickly adjust teh knobs on the go, it's not an issue.

5. what bass do you generally use with it. (just to give me an idea of whether your bass is passive, active or has a deciding influence on how your tone might sound) Yamaha BB2024x, Valenti P-bass, G&L2500

6. Finally what Mesa gear would you recommend for a Mesa Virgin like myself playing mostly classic rock with a Jazz bass but occasionally depping for other music genres doing pup / club material. A Walkabout Scout or a Walkabout with a quality 210 would probably serve you well.

The DI on Mesa gear is weird. You have to be aware that if you change the master volume setting it will affect the signal out so if you tweak up your volume on stage the desk is going to get a hotter signal. Worth mentioning to a soundman just in case.

My 400+ measured the power output at approximately 245W clean and 350W maximum when clipping as done by MJW Amps during a service. Transients could well be higher. It's not stupidly powerful but it is loud through a good cab.

As a comparison, my MJW Taranis 200 (4 x KT88) is 253 clean and 544 fully clipped.

[Sean]

I’ve just been on the Mesa site for the first time in years. Wow! They’ve stripped the bass range back massively!

I understand them ditching things like the Titan V12, Big Block 750 etc but surely not having a bass combo is a gap? 

A combo with a D-800 that slides out to replace the Walkabout Scout seems like an obvious one. 

Do combos really only appeal to the low end and mid range of the market? 

[Al Krow]

15 minutes ago, Sean said:

Do combos really only appeal to the low end and mid range of the market? 

Nope! I see that @discreet has had a road to Damascus conversion and got himself a TE combo...and I suspect he's not 'low end', although his low end will no doubt be very capable...

I have a Mesa M6 carbine combo. But the point is it's 80lbs and therefore staying in my bass cave!! I'll maybe gig it one day when I'm playing Wembley (just to clarify that's the underground station - probably Jubilee rather than Metropolitan Line) in the meantime my Markbass combo (at 37 lbs and 500W) works a treat for pub gigs. And as far as the PMT store in Cambridge is concerned, ALL Markbass gear is too high-end for their customers (they basically stock Ashdown and Orange)  

[mcnach]

2 hours ago, Sean said:

 

The DI on Mesa gear is weird. You have to be aware that if you change the master volume setting it will affect the signal out so if you tweak up your volume on stage the desk is going to get a hotter signal. Worth mentioning to a soundman just in case.

 

 

Is this using pre or post? If post, then many amps behave that way. If pre... I'm surprised any amp behaves that way  My D800+ does not behave that way, for sure.

[Sean]

1 minute ago, mcnach said:

 

Is this using pre or post? If post, then many amps behave that way. If pre... I'm surprised any amp behaves that way  My D800+ does not behave that way, for sure.

Actually there’s no choice of pre or post. There’s an explanation for it in the manual for either the WB or the 400+. 

[Steve Browning]

3 minutes ago, Sean said:

Actually there’s no choice of pre or post. There’s an explanation for it in the manual for either the WB or the 400+. 

Yes. The first thing I did, with my 400, was to get the DI converted to pre.

[dmccombe7]

On 1/6/2018 at 11:35, Al Krow said:

Oooh that's interesting - I didn't find that the D800 came anywhere near close enough to the warmth / creamy tones of my M6. 

Did you manage to A/B them through the same gear?

If you were looking to save money, I'd really recommend getting a VK or BF cab instead of the Mesa cabs. They really are both very good alternative options.

I'm afraid I've only listened to youtube comparisons. Not been able to find many amp heads in local shops in Glasgow to do a proper comparison.

I've tried the VK cabs when i visited Bass Direct to buy my Dingwall and they sound good, sounding very much like the Berg cabs i've had over past few years. I have my Berg HT322 that will never be sold. Its the best cab i've ever come across altho its no lightweight.

Not actually seen or heard a BF cab in real life only on Youtube clips and they do sound very good but would never buy one without trying it first.

I just have a notion for Mesa as its something i've never tried. Saw Cetera use his Mesa cab with Dressed To Kill but band were thru PA so no real idea what stage sound was like. Not sure what amp he was using at the time. That's as close as i've been to a Mesa.

I'm not really looking for options but more curious as to why people like them so much and what their preferences are with regards heads and cabs.

The more info i can reap the better if i do decide to go for Mesa rig. I would probably buy the amp first and try with my Berg cab and then all things being good look at the lightweight Mesa 12" cabs and then sell on my Markbass rig.

Dave

 

Edited January 11, 2018 by dmccombe7