Mesa gear query

[dmccombe7]

2 hours ago, Sean said:

1. What makes owners of Mesa gear like it so much. (general question about Mesa gear ie build quality, support and availability) - Sound, build quality, character. I have more compliments about my sound when using Mesa gear than any other.

2. What is it that made you pick that particular amp over others. (in respect to other Mesa amps or cabs and maybe in respect to other manufacturers gear) The 400+ is iconic. There's a reason it's one of the default models on Logic Pro X. It gives me a sound I absolutely love. Bass = 3, Treble = 3, MIddle = 10. I have a Walkabout Scout 12 too and use that with it's own 1x12 combo or with a BF TWO10. Both have very similar flavour sounds and cut through the mix. The 400+ is used either through a BF Big Twin 2 or a SIX10.

3. Is there a favoured set up that majority of owners prefer or would prefer. Not particularly. I change mine depending on the venue, my mood, whatever.

4. Can you describe briefly your preferred tone (ie, warm, mellow, mid-punch, heavy bottom end, high top end are just some things i can think off). A middy clank not unlike Duff McKagan, a thumping P-bass with flats depending on the song. Both the 400+ and the Walkabout get me where I need to be. Once you've learned how to quickly adjust teh knobs on the go, it's not an issue.

5. what bass do you generally use with it. (just to give me an idea of whether your bass is passive, active or has a deciding influence on how your tone might sound) Yamaha BB2024x, Valenti P-bass, G&L2500

6. Finally what Mesa gear would you recommend for a Mesa Virgin like myself playing mostly classic rock with a Jazz bass but occasionally depping for other music genres doing pup / club material. A Walkabout Scout or a Walkabout with a quality 210 would probably serve you well.

The DI on Mesa gear is weird. You have to be aware that if you change the master volume setting it will affect the signal out so if you tweak up your volume on stage the desk is going to get a hotter signal. Worth mentioning to a soundman just in case.

My 400+ measured the power output at approximately 245W clean and 350W maximum when clipping as done by MJW Amps during a service. Transients could well be higher. It's not stupidly powerful but it is loud through a good cab.

As a comparison, my MJW Taranis 200 (4 x KT88) is 253 clean and 544 fully clipped.

Thanks Sean for your fantastic descriptions. Gives me a general idea of how you use your set up and how that differs slightly from my preferred tone.

Thanks for that. One other thing MJW Taranis ? Never heard of them but just googled and they look tidy but not knowing enough about them i wouldn't buy one without trying it first.

Dave  

[Sean]

24 minutes ago, dmccombe7 said:

Thanks Sean for your fantastic descriptions. Gives me a general idea of how you use your set up and how that differs slightly from my preferred tone.

Thanks for that. One other thing MJW Taranis ? Never heard of them but just googled and they look tidy but not knowing enough about them i wouldn't buy one without trying it first.

Dave  

@dmccombe7 the Taranis is currently a one off 😉.

It’s essentially the same power section as a Matamp GT200 or Orange AD200 but with two channels each with its own style preamp circuit and EQ.

One EQ is a Fender style EQ and the other is the Baxendale-James type. 

The channels are clean/driven vintage-ish and the other is driven modern to absolute filth with a switch that gives Ch2 two different characters.

It also has power switching options where it can go to half power across all four Kt88s or can be switched to run on two valves or can run on half power to two KT88s. Handy for recording at sensible volumes while caning the big tubes for that bottle-warmth.

It has a voice selector switch that gives it four distinctly different characters, one of which is great for guitars.

It’s all way over the top but is incredibly versatile and it cost about the same as a GT200.

I think the intention is that MJW will make a much more straightforward Taranis if anyone wants one. Mine was like an experimental (mental?) venture.

 

Edited January 6, 2018 by Sean

[chris_b]

29 minutes ago, dmccombe7 said:

Not actually seen or heard a BF cab in real life only on Youtube clips and they do sound very good but would never buy one without trying it first.

I just have a notion for Mesa as its something i've never tried.

If you've never heard either then you're taking pot luck which ever way you jump.

There is one way you can try a Barefaced cab. Order one and if you don't like it you can return it within the first month and get your money back. If you buy the Mesa cab first and don't like it, you're stuck with it.

 

[Sean]

3 minutes ago, chris_b said:

If you've never heard either then you're taking pot luck which ever way you jump.

There is one way you can try a Barefaced cab. Order one and if you don't like it you can return it within the first month and get your money back. If you buy the Mesa cab first and don't like it, you're stuck with it.

 

@dmccombe7

I have a BF SIX10 and a BF Big Twin 2 and use them both (not at the same time but I could) with the 400+. They’re very different beasts indeed. The SIX10 gives the most plug and play result, the Big Twin 2 because it’s so transparent needs more tweaking based on the room.

Both of them absolutely kick the back side out of the Mesa 410 Diesel I used to have. Weighed a ton and was worthy but didn’t do the amp any favours. I have no experience of the Powerhouse cabs. 

[dmccombe7]

1 hour ago, chris_b said:

If you've never heard either then you're taking pot luck which ever way you jump.

There is one way you can try a Barefaced cab. Order one and if you don't like it you can return it within the first month and get your money back. If you buy the Mesa cab first and don't like it, you're stuck with it.

 

I think Guitar Guitar in Glasgow has the Subway D800 amps and new lightweight Subway cabs so i can at least try them. 

The BF cabs get a lot of praise on BC i must admit and that many people can't be wrong. Are all BF cabs lightweight ?

The BF cabs are quite expensive too so whichever way i go i will want to try before buying especially as both Mesa and BF are gonna cost a few quid.

Dave

[Sean]

15 minutes ago, dmccombe7 said:

Are all BF cabs lightweight ?

 

In comparison to other equivalents, yes. A lot of people also don't like them but I think since BF released the 10" versions they have wider appeal. Definitely worth trying. I'm sure you'll have someone who owns one close enough to you and willing to let you have a go. I think BF has a network of people who are willing to let you have a go. Maybe contact BF through FB.

[wateroftyne]

Give TKS cabs a look, too. I used them with my Walkabout, and IMO they're a perfect match. Lightweight, but old-school ceramic drivers from Eminence.

 

[Sean]

Bergantino cabs are also fabulous. Expensive and they don't come up used very often but match with the 400+ and WB very well.

[Al Krow]

You may have seen this already? £375 seems like a bargain for something that normally costs around £1,100?!

[Aside: interestingly Mr Greek is after a VK112 in its place. Having recently got a VK 210 from a fellow BCer, I'm really happy to recommend them. It is more articulate and brighter than my Mesa 2x12 - but the Mesa has a lovely / warmer tone, so both have their place in the Krow bass cave!

I'll have to admit if I hadn't got that 210, I would now be very tempted to get Peter Gales' nearly new VK410, if only he were willing to post it!]

 

[dmccombe7]

48 minutes ago, Sean said:

Bergantino cabs are also fabulous. Expensive and they don't come up used very often but match with the 400+ and WB very well.

I've had 2 of the AE112 cabs and didn't realy like the sound from them. Never could really put my finger on it what was wrong with them. Lack of depth ? just wasn't for me.

I did get my Berg HT322 cab from Karlfer on here few yrs back and with old fashioned speakers its just so different and can handle anything i put thru it. With the horn off it gives me a deep but mid clear tone. Its just a very heavy bugger to humph around especially if upstairs at all. Def a 2 man lift altho i have lifted on my own but its a back breaker.

 

[dmccombe7]

58 minutes ago, wateroftyne said:

Give TKS cabs a look, too. I used them with my Walkabout, and IMO they're a perfect match. Lightweight, but old-school ceramic drivers from Eminence.

 

Is that just your backline i'm hearing on this clip WoT.

Sounds nice and clear and it suits the music you're playing but for me i prefer a little more low end for classic rock. That's maybe just down to how you have the amp set up for your own personal sound. I'm sure i've heard you on other clips with various bands and your sound was a bit deeper too. Did you not play at a Lindisfarne gig recently cause i'm sure that's what it was. Also have to say i like your playing. Very smooth, confident and make it look easy. Very nice. 

41 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

You may have seen this already? £375 seems like a bargain for something that normally costs around £1,100?!

[Aside: interestingly Mr Greek is after a VK112 in its place. Having recently got a VK 210 from a fellow BCer, I'm really happy to recommend them. It is more articulate and brighter than my Mesa 2x12 - but the Mesa has a lovely / warmer tone, so both have their place in the Krow bass cave!

I'll have to admit if I hadn't got that 210, I would now be very tempted to get Peter Gales' nearly new VK410, if only he were willing to post it!]

 

Did see the Mesa 15" for sale but until i get a chance to try the Mesa gear i'm gonna hold off buying. I was steering more towards the 12" speaker as they tend to suit what i do more than a 15" or 10's. Also like the idea of trying their lightweight cabs as i already have some sturdy cabs including Orange 115 and 210 but my Berg HT322 seems to cover everything i do apart from the weight of it of course.

I've tried the Vanderkleys and they were good but not good enough for me to want one i'm afraid.

Dave

[mcnach]

@dmccombe7 If you're in Biggar, we're not that far. I have a couple of BF Two10 and a Mesa D800+, if you want to meet sometime and have a little taste, maybe also in combination with your existing amp/cabs if you like. I used to have a pair of BF BigBaby 2, which unfortunately can't be compared directly, but I have a reasonable recollection of what they were like.

The cab that @wateroftyne was using is a TKS S212, if I'm not mistaken? I still own two TKS S112 that I could bring too if interested. Their bottom end is very tight and precise, some say a bit lacking by default, but you can add a bit of bass EQ from your amp and they respond gloriously. They are very very light. The reason I got the Two10s was that I was a bit afraid of pushing the S112s too hard, and I could get a sufficiently similar sound from the Two10, but the Two10 has the bottom end by default and can take a lot more... But the TKS S112/S212 are beautiful sounding cabs.

I used to have a pair of TKS 1126 that were monsters. Very clean, very big sounding. 

 

Edited January 6, 2018 by mcnach

[Al Krow]

32 minutes ago, dmccombe7 said:

I've tried the Vanderkleys and they were good but not good enough for me to want one i'm afraid.

Dave

Aha!  Fyi having A/B'd BF and VK I ended up going for VK; and for me they are certainly on a par (albeit with different characteristics) to Mesa cabs. There are obviously some great cabs out there and mcnach's offer sounds like an excellent one. Have fun honing in on your ideal cab and I look forward to finding out what you end up going for.

[wateroftyne]

41 minutes ago, dmccombe7 said:

Is that just your backline i'm hearing on this clip WoT.

Sounds nice and clear and it suits the music you're playing but for me i prefer a little more low end for classic rock. That's maybe just down to how you have the amp set up for your own personal sound. I'm sure i've heard you on other clips with various bands and your sound was a bit deeper too. Did you not play at a Lindisfarne gig recently cause i'm sure that's what it was. Also have to say i like your playing. Very smooth, confident and make it look easy. Very nice. 

Thank you - you're very kind :-)

Yeah, it's definitely a taste thing - I like nice tight low-mids, but the cab could easily soak up more lows if needed.

[dmccombe7]

Thanks McNach for such a generous offer to let me try out some seriously good gear (currently listening to Urang Matang on FB at the moment ) I might take you up on that at some point.

I started the thread to find out a little more about why people prefer or like their Mesa gear and at some point i was looking to try some out for myself just to see what the attraction is. 

Why did people go for Mesa rather than something cheaper like many of the excellent suggestions offered on the thread. ?

We seem to be drifting into suggestions for other cabs and altho i appreciate how people prefer their own individual cabs its more my curiosity about the Mesa gear that's driving my interest. I have some reasonable Berg, Orange, Markbass and Trace cabs at the moment and tried a few others like Ampeg, Aguilar, Ashdown, EBS, Vandekley and probably some others i've forgotten in studios or various shops over past few years. There are still some cabs i've not tried but at the moment i'm really more curious about the Mesa gear.

I'm not sure its GAS for Mesa but more just curiosity.

Hope i haven't offended anyone in any way by saying that especially when everyone has been exceptionally helpful.

Dave  

[chris_b]

Hey Dave, you've got to work out what's the best for you. No one else can make that decision for you.

[dmccombe7]

Appreciate that Chris and i'm reasonably happy with my Berg HT322 cab apart from its weight. I'm using it with a GK1001Rbii head and i'm quite happy with it too. 

Its just that when i read about people with Mesa gear and their love for it and the fact they tend to stay with Mesa once they've made that initial leap, i start listening to review clips on Youtube and i hear a nice warm rounded tone with mellow lows and nice clear mids that's different to my own gear.

Just makes me wonder if i'm missing something there. 

I guess its down to trying them out for myself and if i'm missing something then time for a change of gear.

Gonna start selling off some of my gear to make some space in the bass cave. I seem to have acquired a fair bit over the past year that's no longer being used. That might provide some cash towards a new lightweight rig.

If the Mesa Subway lightweight gear sounds as good as its described and the vid clips sound i may replace my Markbass with Mesa. I def like that warm mellow lows but clear mids tones.

It would be nice to have one amp head that sounds great with lightweight cabs and my Berg HT322

Dave

 

 

[LukeFRC]

1 hour ago, dmccombe7 said:

Why did people go for Mesa rather than something cheaper like many of the excellent suggestions offered on the thread. ?

I think when it comes to cabs, there are EU based makers who make cabs as good or better. Paying a premium for Mesa ones doesn't seem to make sense... I'm sure they are very good, but there are lots of good cabs about .

With the amps though - what else is there in the same kinda sonic sphere? @wateroftyne suggested Handbox ... but of the two one has brand recognition (and you can presume on long term support) and is less of a risk of the unknown, and you can google, or start a thread like this, and find lots of user reports. I think it's easier to justify spending the extra on the amp front. 

It's been a good thread this though, it made me think again about amp choice. I think I'm pretty happy with my amp. I think the only ways I would change it would be to go all valve route, or to go for a more hi-fi cleaner sound (specifically wish I had bought the Warwick Hellborg rig that came up on here a while back!) The combo is lovely, but there's part of me that just enjoyed plugging separates into one another! 

 

[LukeFRC]

2 minutes ago, dmccombe7 said:

Appreciate that Chris and i'm reasonably happy with my Berg HT322 cab apart from its weight. I'm using it with a GK1001Rbii head and i'm quite happy with it too. 

 

 

 

you know that GK sound when you have the Master almost at full and use the preamp gain as a volume control.... and the whole thing starts to sound bigger and fatter than if you have the Master down? 
Imagine that more rounded and organic. That's how I would describe the Mesa sound.
 

When I bought my walkabout it was trying it against the GK1001Rbii and 2x10 combo I had, and the mPulse 600 and Walkabout through ashdown 810, barefaced 115 (awful sounding) and the Mesa 112 scout cab.... 

[wateroftyne]

1 hour ago, LukeFRC said:

With the amps though - what else is there in the same kinda sonic sphere? @wateroftyne suggested Handbox ... but of the two one has brand recognition (and you can presume on long term support) and is less of a risk of the unknown, and you can google, or start a thread like this, and find lots of user reports. I think it's easier to justify spending the extra on the amp front. 

 

FWIW, Handbox have been around for years, just not in the UK. But I agree they could do with upping their English content, and how a UK warranty would work if it’s needed.

[peteb]

17 hours ago, wateroftyne said:

Give TKS cabs a look, too. I used them with my Walkabout, and IMO they're a perfect match. Lightweight, but old-school ceramic drivers from Eminence.

 

I don't suppose that you know where can you get TKS cabs in this country these days?? @wateroftyne

Edited January 7, 2018 by peteb

[mcnach]

5 hours ago, dmccombe7 said:

Thanks McNach for such a generous offer to let me try out some seriously good gear (currently listening to Urang Matang on FB at the moment ) I might take you up on that at some point.

I started the thread to find out a little more about why people prefer or like their Mesa gear and at some point i was looking to try some out for myself just to see what the attraction is. 

Why did people go for Mesa rather than something cheaper like many of the excellent suggestions offered on the thread. ?

We seem to be drifting into suggestions for other cabs and altho i appreciate how people prefer their own individual cabs its more my curiosity about the Mesa gear that's driving my interest. I have some reasonable Berg, Orange, Markbass and Trace cabs at the moment and tried a few others like Ampeg, Aguilar, Ashdown, EBS, Vandekley and probably some others i've forgotten in studios or various shops over past few years. There are still some cabs i've not tried but at the moment i'm really more curious about the Mesa gear.

I'm not sure its GAS for Mesa but more just curiosity.

Hope i haven't offended anyone in any way by saying that especially when everyone has been exceptionally helpful.

Dave  

 

No problem, just PM if/when you feel like it

Urang Matang... ha! That is a fun band to play with. None of the recordings is me, however. I was briefly in the initial incarnation of the band, before they had a name... a month or so in, the drummer (my friend who brought me in) had some family issues and we stopped. That was early 2010. Then I got busy with other bands, and they eventually reformed with someone else. Fast forward to summer 2016... their bass player can't continue and they have like 10-12 gigs over the next 3 months, and they contact me. And what was a temporary situation became permanent. We were supposed to work on new material and be recording this year but there are... "internal disagreements" and we may be reaching the end. But... anyway, long story about nothing, sorry!  Thanks for listening!

Back on track: why did I choose Mesa?

I had borrowed a D800 a while back and compared it to my Streamliner 900 and Little Mark III... I liked it better than the other two. It felt "bigger" in a way that the other amps did not, hard to describe... but the LM3 was good enough so I did not feel I needed another amp. The Streamliner was my backup, but then I sold it and decided to get a second LM3: they're reasonably common and cheap used.

However, meanwhile I got seduced by the Barefaced Two10, and got a couple of them, the 4ohm version. My plan was then to get that second LM3, and I could use them as master/slave when I needed more power for both cabs. That would be the cheaper option. But I saw the D800+ had now a bright switch that allegedly 'fixed' its dark character that some commented on (including myself), a semiparametric EQ for low and high mids, and more interestingly: an adjustable HPF. It is ok for 2ohm... so I decided to have a go, knowing I could return it if I didn't like it. But I liked it, a lot. And that's my story.

I'm full of boring long stories today

[dmccombe7]

1 hour ago, mcnach said:

 

No problem, just PM if/when you feel like it

Urang Matang... ha! That is a fun band to play with. None of the recordings is me, however. I was briefly in the initial incarnation of the band, before they had a name... a month or so in, the drummer (my friend who brought me in) had some family issues and we stopped. That was early 2010. Then I got busy with other bands, and they eventually reformed with someone else. Fast forward to summer 2016... their bass player can't continue and they have like 10-12 gigs over the next 3 months, and they contact me. And what was a temporary situation became permanent. We were supposed to work on new material and be recording this year but there are... "internal disagreements" and we may be reaching the end. But... anyway, long story about nothing, sorry!  Thanks for listening!

Back on track: why did I choose Mesa?

I had borrowed a D800 a while back and compared it to my Streamliner 900 and Little Mark III... I liked it better than the other two. It felt "bigger" in a way that the other amps did not, hard to describe... but the LM3 was good enough so I did not feel I needed another amp. The Streamliner was my backup, but then I sold it and decided to get a second LM3: they're reasonably common and cheap used.

However, meanwhile I got seduced by the Barefaced Two10, and got a couple of them, the 4ohm version. My plan was then to get that second LM3, and I could use them as master/slave when I needed more power for both cabs. That would be the cheaper option. But I saw the D800+ had now a bright switch that allegedly 'fixed' its dark character that some commented on (including myself), a semiparametric EQ for low and high mids, and more interestingly: an adjustable HPF. It is ok for 2ohm... so I decided to have a go, knowing I could return it if I didn't like it. But I liked it, a lot. And that's my story.

I'm full of boring long stories today

And here's me listening to the FB VIDS to see how your bass actually sounded and what you were aiming for. 

Your way into Mesa is good as i've had the Streamliner 600 that i found a little limited in EQ altho it had a nice general tone and with the valve pre-amp had a decent warm feel to it but always felt it lacked depth if that's the right word. I was also using Berg AE112 cabs and i've never been sure if it was maybe the cabs that were the problem. Sold the amp first so will never know. I have the Markbass 121P combo and ext cab that i generally just use when i don't fancy humphing heavier cabs up stairs. I've never had a bad sound from it to be fair but i'm finding the Mesa D800 range has that warm mellow rounded sound that i quite like. 

I've tried various 10" cabs of varying combinations ie 1x10, 2x10, 4x10, 6x10 and even the Ampeg and Hartke 8x10's but i've always found them a bit too much mid and not enough low warmth with the exception being when i used an old Orange OC120 bass head with the Hartke 8x10. The all valve head seemed to provide that warmth sounding tone but the whole thing was just way too heavy for me. Don't fancy the all valve route either after trying a few i find they lack some clarity and again not sure that's the best way to describe what i mean.

By the sound of it you'd think i had made my mind up to go Mesa with 12" cabs 

Big decision is whether i would go Subway D800 series or Walkabout or M6 / M9 heads. 

My preferred heads are valve pre-amp with SS power stage. The lightweight heads for me lack something but listening to the D800 might be the change i've been waiting for where they've managed to retain their respeccted Mesa tone using D class power stage.

Edited January 7, 2018 by dmccombe7

[wateroftyne]

3 hours ago, peteb said:

I don't suppose that you know where can you get TKS cabs in this country these days?? @wateroftyne

I don't - I've always just dealt direct with Tommy...

[mcnach]

7 minutes ago, dmccombe7 said:

And here's me listening to the FB VIDS to see how your bass actually sounded and what you were aiming for. 

Your way into Mesa is good as i've had the Streamliner 600 that i found a little limited in EQ altho it had a nice general tone and with the valve pre-amp had a decent warm feel to it but always felt it lacked depth if that's the right word. I was also using Berg AE112 cabs and i've never been sure if it was maybe the cabs that were the problem. Sold the amp first so will never know. I have the Markbass 121P combo and ext cab that i generally just use when i don't fancy humphing heavier cabs up stairs. I've never had a bad sound from it to be fair but i'm finding the Mesa D800 range has that warm mellow rounded sound that i quite like. 

I've tried various 10" cabs of varying combinations ie 1x10, 2x10, 4x10, 6x10 and even the Ampeg and Hartke 8x10's but i've always found them a bit too much mid and not enough low warmth with the exception being when i used an old Orange OC120 bass head with the Hartke 8x10. The all valve head seemed to provide that warmth sounding tone but the whole thing was just way too heavy for me. Don't fancy the all valve route either after trying a few i find they lack some clarity and again not sure that's the best way to describe what i mean.

By the sound of it you'd think i had made my mind up to go Mesa with 12" cabs 

Big decision is whether i would go Subway D800 series or Walkabout or M6 / M9 heads. 

My preferred heads are valve pre-amp with SS power stage. The lightweight heads for me lack something but listening to the D800 might be the change i've been waiting for where they've managed to retain their respeccted Mesa tone using D class power stage.

 

ha ha!  sorry about that!

Your description of the Streamliner sounds like what I would say. It didn't lack lows and the preamp section add some nice warmth... but it felt lacking in weight somewhat. Like you, I used to own a CMD121P combo to which I occasionally added an extra cab, and it never let me down even if it didn't always make me smile. It's what made me get my first LM3 head. 

I have not tried the other Mesa heads, but the D800/D800+ have some 'quality' that I don't find in other compact heads. When testing it against an LM3 I could not put my finger on it... but after I bought the D800+ and used it for a bit, I am very happy I did. I have used it a lot with Urang Matang, without PA support, in mid-size bars, beer gardens etc, and it has always behaved (with the pair of Two10) brilliantly. Getting a fat, well defined, with serious low mids and no 'boom' has always been easy. I generally play a Stingray... I love my mids, but I want a strong low end too. No problem. 

The voicing knob on the D800 changes the character of these amps a lot. I thought it would be some kind of contour control, but it isn't. With it fully anticlockwise you approach Markbass LM3 territory. As you turn clockwise the knob, it becomes more... 'organic'. I tend to have it around 9-10 o'clock... It doesn't one inherent voice, it covers quite a lot of ground. If weight is a consideration, you should definitely try one of those (D800+ in particular) before going for the bigger ones, and see what you think. Over on TalkBass there's a long thread on the Mesa Subway range. There's a few people who own/ed the M6 or M9 and they generally like the D800. Some say they still prefer their M6/M9 while others say that tweaking this that way gets you in M6/M9 territory and they love it. I don't know personally. The designer participates in that thread and had some comments about how to get that sort of character out of the D800... worth checking, but it's a LONG thread