scrumpymike Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 I've just taken delivery of an excellent Mesa Subway 800 purchased off this forum and decided to have a quick read of the user manual unexpectedly received with it. Having generally bought used amps without any paperwork, I don't have much experience in these matters but I was surprised that Mesa's quick set-up guide reads: set the master to 1 o'clock and then increase the gain to achieve the required volume. I've always first set the input level to the point where the overload indicator occasionally flickers on and off 'in extremis' (or more permanently for an overdriven sound), and then set the master to get the required volume. Any ideas why Mesa advise the opposite approach - is it a class D thing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fitzmaurice Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 I don't know why they say that either. It has nothing to do with Class D. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 If I recall correctly the Ampeg SVT3PRO has similar instructions/guidelines. I`ve always taken the "set the Gain to where the needle hits the red on hardest notes" approach on my amps, figuring that`s why it`s there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mep Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 I'm with you scrumpymike. I don't know about this amp. Does it noy have an input gain level light of some sort? What does it sound like and does it change much if you set the levels as you suggest? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrumpymike Posted January 3, 2018 Author Share Posted January 3, 2018 6 minutes ago, mep said: I'm with you scrumpymike. I don't know about this amp. Does it noy have an input gain level light of some sort? What does it sound like and does it change much if you set the levels as you suggest? Yes, it has the usual warning light and, yes, the sounds are noticeably different for the two opposite methods - exactly in the way that anyone who understands the control functions would expect. Adopting the Mesa approach and noodling around loud-ish at home through an 8ohm Barefaced SC (= 400 watts), the gain ends up around 10 o'clock and the sounds produced are sweet and clean. Done the opposite 'traditional' way produces sounds that are less clean and more dynamic, according to how far you crank up the gain pot - again, just as expected. OK, beats me why Mesa say do it their way. I think this is just a non-topic! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M@23 Posted January 3, 2018 Share Posted January 3, 2018 (edited) If you're on Talkbass might be worth asking them... Seem to remember one of their chief engineers was a regular poster. Edited January 3, 2018 by M@23 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 1 hour ago, scrumpymike said: OK, beats me why Mesa say do it their way. Why not? Sounds like they are recommending a clean and clear sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jazzyvee Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 I'm not into the edgy, gritty, overdriven or vintage sound so I always go for whatever gives me the cleanest sound at the volume I need for a gig. Usually for me that means having the master as far open as I can without hiss, which on my QSC PLX 2402 that means fully open but not so with my walkabout head. Then I bring up the input gain of my pre-amp till I get the volume I need. That always gives me a clean powerful sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrumpymike Posted January 4, 2018 Author Share Posted January 4, 2018 I suppose that the explanation offered by chris_b and jazzyvee is the only one that makes sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
warwickhunt Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 Oddly I watched a sound engineer (PA hire) set the desk master fader to '0' (ie max output), all of the channels in use to max and then started increasing the individual channel gains for voices/instruments (active PA cabs were at max). I asked why he didn't set each channel using the input gain and corresponding PFL meter and he said that his way was easier... just saying. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Fitzmaurice Posted January 4, 2018 Share Posted January 4, 2018 Setting up a PA desk is different. The last thing you want is to have clipping at the input stage, so that procedure would be more or less correct, at least as far as the individual channels is concerned. However, a good desk would not have the 0dB setting the max, either on the individual channels or any of the outputs. 0dB would typically be at least 10dB below maximum. Also, you wouldn't start with both the desk outputs and the power amp attenuators at 0dB. Doing so might result in the input gains being too low for acceptable signal to noise ratio. A knowledgeable engineer uses the input LED readout to be sure that the applied gain puts the signal strength in the Goldilocks zone. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_bass5 Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 GK also recommend having the master up high and adjusting the input stage, at least for the MB800 head i have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raggy Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 37 minutes ago, dave_bass5 said: GK also recommend having the master up high and adjusting the input stage, at least for the MB800 head i have. Yup, that seems to be the GK way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
franzbassist Posted January 18, 2018 Share Posted January 18, 2018 On 1/4/2018 at 13:15, Bill Fitzmaurice said: the Goldilocks zone. I am SO using this in future Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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