New Combo Day - Trace Elliot Content

[gary mac]

4 hours ago, discreet said:

I may consider one for the sound rather than volume, but it's quite a 'hauling commitment'. More experimentation needed.

The sound was the reason that I added it, never found the combo on its own, lacking in volume.🙂

[MoonBassAlpha]

I think the Celestion speaker in there has a lot of character too, and noticeably more top end than the Eminence 15" in the BF Compact. I had a conversation with Alex about the loudness of the Trace, and he suggested that it might be subtle mid-range distortion that helps the speakers sound so loud. Subjectively, the Trace combo was as loud as the Compact.

[discreet]

12 minutes ago, gary mac said:

The sound was the reason that I added it, never found the combo on its own, lacking in volume.🙂

Aaah... Ill check out my BFM as an extension cab tomorrow. It's going to have to sound pretty bloody good to warrant the extra faff, though.

[discreet]

11 minutes ago, MoonBassAlpha said:

I think the Celestion speaker in there has a lot of character too, and noticeably more top end than the Eminence 15" in the BF Compact. I had a conversation with Alex about the loudness of the Trace, and he suggested that it might be subtle mid-range distortion that helps the speakers sound so loud. Subjectively, the Trace combo was as loud as the Compact.

Could well be something in that! Or possibly they made 400W amps and said they were 200W...

Edited January 6, 2018 by discreet

[VTypeV4]

5 hours ago, discreet said:

No it's all good, thanks.  By 'lesser spotted' I presume you mean 'spotted less', i.e. rarer - and not 'smaller or fewer spots' as in 'lesser spotted woodpecker'?

Ha, yes indeed!  

Of the 15" combo models, I've owned two and both were great.

First was a late ('03 according to the serial) 715 GP7 with the illuminscent panel and black tolex same as the later V-Type and Commando ranges. I paid very little for it as a friend was no longer using it - he'd bought a bigger Laney rig. I only moved it on as another mate was setting a rehearsal place up and was desperate for a decent bass amp. He still has it and it apparently is still going well although I recall he fitted it with wheels.  

Secondly was a Twin Valve which are quite rare (see what I did there?) and horribly heavy but sound fantastic. They came with the Series 6 GP7 pre-amp but with valve stage as well as an all valve output stage (2x 6550 making a claimed 115w) which is MUCH louder than the numbers suggest. I did a full review of this in the reviews section. I only moved this on as I'd mistakenly sold the V4 (Trace, not Ampeg) few years before and the opportunity came around to get it back so needed the pennies. 

[discreet]

1 hour ago, VTypeV4 said:

...a Twin Valve which are quite rare and horribly heavy but sound fantastic. They came with the Series 6 GP7 pre-amp but with valve stage as well as an all valve output stage (2x 6550 making a claimed 115w) which is MUCH louder than the numbers suggest.

Wow. I'm going to keep an eye out for that... I had a 100W all-valve Burman amp and it was very loud indeed. Imagine how loud the combination of Trace watts and valve watts must be! 

[Paul S]

I remember the first time I used my Trace head with both Supercompacts - a bass player was standing right at the back of the venue - nothing large maybe 200 at a squeeze - and he said it was like being hit in the guts when I started to play

[Osiris]

16 hours ago, discreet said:

I know Ashdowns can stand a lot of signal on the input stage, but is there  any advantage in a high input level on a Trace? Is it better to whack up the master and control the volume level with the input, or vice-versa,? Or neither?

I had a GP12 SMX back in the day (which I grew to utterly despise but that's a whole separate topic ) which had the 'traffic light' input indicator lights on the input gain. The manual (which I may even have buried away somewhere) suggested that you turn the input gain until the red light clips then just back it off a touch until the amber light is on on for most of the time while you play with the red light just flashing occasionally. Probably something to do with signal to noise ratio or something, no doubt someone who understands these things far more than I do can explain?

Anyway, looking at the pics, yours doesn't have the traffic lights but it does make me think that Trace wanted you to run the input gain as high as you can. At least on some of their other models. Does that help? 

[VTypeV4]

8 hours ago, discreet said:

Wow. I'm going to keep an eye out for that... I had a 100W all-valve Burman amp and it was very loud indeed. Imagine how loud the combination of Trace watts and valve watts must be! 

Ha, you could knock holes in a wall with it! It was as perceivably loud as the V-Type 4808 (300w / 4x8") I'd had previously. My V4 is a monster..

[Merton]

31 minutes ago, Osiris said:

I had a GP12 SMX back in the day (which I grew to utterly despise but that's a whole separate topic ) which had the 'traffic light' input indicator lights on the input gain. The manual (which I may even have buried away somewhere) suggested that you turn the input gain until the red light clips then just back it off a touch until the amber light is on on for most of the time while you play with the red light just flashing occasionally. Probably something to do with signal to noise ratio or something, no doubt someone who understands these things far more than I do can explain?

Anyway, looking at the pics, yours doesn't have the traffic lights but it does make me think that Trace wanted you to run the input gain as high as you can. At least on some of their other models. Does that help? 

That’s essentially it, yes.

This combo has a single red led which has the same function as the red led on the traffic light system of the SMX series. When it starts flashing, back the gain down a notch or two. EQ changes will affect when this starts to clip

[verb]

19 hours ago, discreet said:

There is another Trace combo which is very similar to mine, only it is narrower and doesn't have the air vents either side of the amp head... do any Trace bods know what the difference is?

And does anyone have any idea when it was made? From what I can gather it's probably early to mid 90s, but apparently it's difficult if not impossible to find out from the serial number.

The narrower GP7 combo was available as the 715 which was rated at 100w, it didn't have a DI and it had an 8ohm speaker so there is only one speaker socket. There was a 200w version, 715S, which had a DI and a 4ohm speaker with two speaker sockets, this was also available as a sleeved head called the AH2007S. Also a 2x10 combo, which I think was 200w and called the 7210.

Trace Elliot also had the 200w GP12 1215.

The build date should be on a label inside the head section.

Edited January 7, 2018 by verb

[discreet]

4 hours ago, verb said:

The narrower GP7 combo was available as the 715 which was rated at 100w, it didn't have a DI and it had an 8ohm speaker so there is only one speaker socket. There was a 200w version, 715S, which had a DI and a 4ohm speaker with two speaker sockets, this was also available as a sleeved head called the AH2007S. Also a 2x10 combo, which I think was 200w and called the 7210.

Trace Elliot also had the 200w GP12 1215.

The build date should be on a label inside the head section.

Thanks for this... not sure quite how to access the amp head, can't see any screws...

Here's the combo atop my BFM Jack 12. I tried putting the Jack on top of the combo at first, but it's just too precariously top-heavy. This is a safer way round, though it looks a bit weird. Luckily all four castors have brakes. I'm just waiting for the family to clear off out of it, then I'll fire it up.

 

Edited January 7, 2018 by discreet

[MoonBassAlpha]

Ha! Did you purchase the weights before or after the Trace?

[RandomBass]

Trace, Elliot and Jack. Three Perfect Cousins.

Apologies to the Undertones.

Can't wait to read your words on those fellas!

Geoff

[VTypeV4]

The access for the combos is usually on top but the screws are covered by little plastic inserts you'll need to pop out first - my 715 and 4808 were like this.. With these out the amp should simply slide out but be sure to disconnect the speaker connection too.

[discreet]

31 minutes ago, MoonBassAlpha said:

Ha! Did you purchase the weights before or after the Trace?

Those are the current mrs discreet's 5kg weights... mine are 10kg each. And yes, all were purchased well before buying this Trace.

8 minutes ago, VTypeV4 said:

The access for the combos is usually on top but the screws are covered by little plastic inserts you'll need to pop out first - my 715 and 4808 were like this.. With these out the amp should simply slide out but be sure to disconnect the speaker connection too.

Thanks for this - there is some kind of rubber mat stuck to the top of the combo, I'll have to get the hair dryer out and get it off, hopefully without making too much mess. Then the mysteries within will be exposed.

[discreet]

48 minutes ago, RandomBass said:

Trace, Elliot and Jack. Three Perfect Cousins. Can't wait to read your words on those fellas!

I've just had a little session with both cabs - I had already imagined that the combo and Jack would sound amazing together. However... the BFM on its own sounds better than the internal speaker in the combo - no surprises there, it's a more sophisticated, better-designed and bigger box with an Eminence Kappalite 3012HO in it.

But when I connected both cabs up, the results were a bit disappointing. The ensemble sounded just like the combo speaker, only much louder. I did use a long lead and stand as far away as possible, but it would seem there is no advantage to be had from using the Jack apart from volume. And that isn't a problem with the combo on its own anyway.

I don't know if this means the cabs or drivers are mismatched, or what. But together they don't sound as good as I was hoping. When I rocked two Identical Jacks with a 100W all-valve Burman amp, the results were mindblowing.

But being positive, it means I don't have to haul the Jack as well as the combo, which is something of a relief to be honest. It's only 18kg, but it's an awkward shape with a top handle and it's never been easy to move around. Also the Jack and combo together look a bit Heath-Robinson and my OCD doesn't like that! 

Logically I could get a trace AH200 amp head and use it with the Jack for a better 'tone' overall, but then I'd have a superfluous combo knocking around and I'd only save around 6kg weight in total - despite the combo being that much heavier it's easier to move around as it's got side handles, it's narrower and it's on wheels... next logical step is to try a matching Trace cab, I suppose. But it would have to be a 1X15" Celestion in a tolex-covered cab that matches the width and depth of the combo... anyone know which one that is?

Edited January 7, 2018 by discreet

[stewblack]

Been lurking and loving this thread. Used to have this TE  combo years ago. It lived in my bar as the resident bass amp. It got used at jam sessions and as back up for visiting bands. I lost count of the number of bassists who went off to find their own TE combo after using it. Promoted instant love. No one believed the wattage back then either!

My most recent TE head blew up at a gig and took down the electrics in the venue too, leaving a drunken drummer pounding away in the dark unaware we were all suddenly silent. This thread has me gassing to get it up and running again. I'm buying a MarkBass rig because of my broken shoulder and dodgy back but a bit of TE goodness every now and then is food for the soul 😎

[discreet]

6 minutes ago, stewblack said:

I'm buying a MarkBass rig because of my broken shoulder and dodgy back but a bit of TE goodness every now and then is food for the soul...

I'll remind you of that when I bring you some grapes in hospital. 

Edited January 7, 2018 by discreet

[stewblack]

10 minutes ago, discreet said:

I'll remind you of that when I bring you some grapes in hospital. 

Ha! Just the head, I'm only getting the head fixed.

Hmmm. Wonder how TE will sound through a couple of MB cabs....

[VTypeV4]

35 minutes ago, discreet said:

Those are the current mrs discreet's 5kg weights... mine are 10kg each. And yes, all were purchased well before buying this Trace.

Thanks for this - there is some kind of rubber mat stuck to the top of the combo, I'll have to get the hair dryer out and get it off, hopefully without making too much mess. Then the mysteries within will be exposed.

Be sure to post some pics when you do!

22 minutes ago, discreet said:

... next logical step is to try a matching Trace cab, I suppose. But it would have to be a 15" tolex cab that matches the width of the combo... anyone know which one that is?

Trace 1153, most have the same driver as your combo - most have the front mounted ports too although some earlier ones have them mounted behind the grill and the box is slightly shallower (front to back) - probably identical size to your combo. Some also come with an HF component but there seems to be fewer of these about. There's also the option of pretty much any other Trace cab from the era too as they're the same width, 1048H (4x10 + HF), 2103H (2x10 + HF), 1153 (compact 1x15), 1518 (large 1x15), 1818 (1x18 - same size as 1518 & 1048H)..

[discreet]

5 minutes ago, VTypeV4 said:

Trace 1153, most have the same driver as your combo - most have the front mounted ports too although some earlier ones have them mounted behind the grill and the box is slightly shallower (front to back) - probably identical size to your combo. Some also come with an HF component but there seems to be fewer of these about. There's also the option of pretty much any other Trace cab from the era too as they're the same width, 1048H (4x10 + HF), 2103H (2x10 + HF), 1153 (compact 1x15), 1518 (large 1x15), 1818 (1x18 - same size as 1518 & 1048H)..

Thanks very much for that long list of options! Trace were certainly a very busy company...

[VTypeV4]

6 minutes ago, discreet said:

Thanks very much for that long list of options! Trace were certainly a very busy company...

And the 1084 - 8x10 although it's 4 ohm so you'd have to pull the internal speaker on your combo. You'd need to recover from the hernia and back surgery first of course as they were 84Kg!

All good - hope it works out for you if you choose to add. 

[discreet]

1 hour ago, VTypeV4 said:

And the 1084 - 8x10. You'd need to recover from the hernia and back surgery first of course as they were 84Kg!

All good - hope it works out for you if you choose to add. 

Thanks very much, but my 8x10 days are definitely over, barring some miracle situation where I don't have to haul one...

Edited January 7, 2018 by discreet
Spelling

[discreet]

OK, I need to slide out the amp head and find out when my combo was put together. My OCD demands it and so do certain other BassChatters.  However, there is a thick rubber mat glued to the top, obviously to stop things from sliding around, such as an extension cab, I'm guessing. Very sensible, but it's got to come off as it's covering the plastic plugs under which lurk the screws holding the chassis in.

If I can get the four corners off first I can access the screws and slide out the amp head. Then I can really get to work softening the glue with a hair dryer and get my plastic spatula under the mat without fear of overheating the amp in any way. That stuff is really on there!