Sustain? Discuss.

[ambient]

Good sustain would also be useful if you're covering a line that was originally played on a synth. I remember having to play a Massive attack song at uni that had whole notes in each bar. I played it on fretless. Birdland is another that springs to mind, and another I had to play at uni, (not surprising my anxiety problem resurfaced then ). Not songs that you get asked to play every day, but if you hit an open E in a song expecting it to ring out and it dies after half a bar?

[Lozz196]

The only time I want/need sustain is for a rock `n` roll ending to a song, with a lengthy sustained note at the end.

[leftybassman392]

Anybody play in a Pink Floyd tribute band?

[Frank Blank]

12 hours ago, T-Bay said:

I might be missing something with what you are asking but as sustain is a measure of the length of time a note sounds for, so why wouldn’t you want a better sustain characteristic? There are way too many songs to list, but to pick one - she sells sanctuary by The Cult, the bass starts with two ringing A notes so without sustain it would sound terrible. You can always mute a note if you want it to sound for less time.

She Sells Sanctuary - great song btw, well, not great, good.

I realise it is the length of time a note sounds for, what I'm trying to ascertain is (which is not adequately, or possibly at all) addressed in my initial post is why sustain appears to be one of the characteristics sought after by bass players when selecting a bass?

[Phil Starr]

I suspect most of us don't play with great technique, that's true of my own playing. If you want to observe note lengths properly then the longer notes have to sustain. Equally if your damping is sloppy then a bass that stops ringing quickly makes my messy playing sound crisper. There's not many bassists who play a good staccato for example a lot relying on palm muting and a pick to get a more staccato effect.

The other thing about sustain is that generally the lower tones last longer than the higher overtones meaning the timbre changes as the note decays, great if you are playing a pumping root note but not great if you are trying to play something more melodic.

I wonder if we all subconsciously choose basses with just the right amount of sustain for our playing style. I tend to pick up my (medium sustain) J bass rather than my sustaining American Deluxe P bass which shows up all my sloppy mistakes. Just saying.

The other factor is amplification, at high levels with a bit of feedback all basses sustain.

[Frank Blank]

12 hours ago, fleabag said:

There are scenarios for both muting and sustain, depending on the track, shirley ?

Very true, it's more why sustain appears to be one of the characteristics sought after by bass players when selecting a bass that I'm trying to get at?

[Frank Blank]

12 hours ago, Cato said:

I just did a quick test and was able to sustain a note at the 12th fret of the G for 20 seconds with vibrato before I got bored.

OK it's not technically pure 'one pluck and let ring' sutain but surely that's enough for any scenario?

It would certainly be enough for me.

[leftybassman392]

4 minutes ago, Frank Blank said:

why sustain appears to be one of the characteristics sought after by bass players when selecting a bass?

As has been said by Silverfoxnik and others, it's seen as a measure of construction quality.

Edited January 9, 2018 by leftybassman392

[drTStingray]

If you're intending to play music which calls for a bass part beyond just a half note thump - perhaps requiring notes to ring for two beats or more then it's an essential part of playing. Having a note ring and then stop it at a strategic point in a bar can be extremely effective.   Sustain and tone there of is often essential when playing ballads. 

In my experience, string through versions of basses can improve the quality and volume of sustain.

 

[charic]

I usually find a bass that has better sustain generally has a more pleasing tone to go along with it

[ambient]

Walk on the wild side with it 3 beat sustained note.

[KingPrawn]

10 hours ago, ambient said:

Exactly, fretless is where sustain really comes to the fore. Watch a good fretless player using a nice rocking side-to-side vibrato technique to try and squeeze every last bit of sustain out of the note.

Thank you for explaining my "left-hand wobble" in the correct terms.  .  That's why you're the teacher. Sustain is essential for feel and emotional attachment to particular styles of music.

[Delberthot]

45 minutes ago, Phil Starr said:

I suspect most of us don't play with great technique, that's true of my own playing. If you want to observe note lengths properly then the longer notes have to sustain. Equally if your damping is sloppy then a bass that stops ringing quickly makes my messy playing sound crisper. There's not many bassists who play a good staccato for example a lot relying on palm muting and a pick to get a more staccato effect.

The other factor is amplification, at high levels with a bit of feedback all basses sustain.

I developed a staccato technique over the years to compensate for big wooly sounding cabs so that I could hear myself properly and make it sound more punchy. I don't use a plectrum and I've never tried palm muting.

I've just realised that there's a song I play where I drop the E to D for the bridge. I then play the open D for a full bar then flip the lever back up to play the E for a further full bar so 2 bars in total.

[Skol303]

Longer sustain is generated by the note having more energy; and generally speaking that means it also has more harmonic content.

I could be wrong here… but by my reckoning more sustain therefore means more harmonics, which to some ears means better tone.

That would be my guess as to why good sustain is a desirable quality in guitars (and nothing to do with how long the note plays for).

Physics is fun, innit

[Skol303]

53 minutes ago, charic said:

I usually find a bass that has better sustain generally has a more pleasing tone to go along with it

^ This!

[discreet]

1 hour ago, Lozz196 said:

The only time I want/need sustain is for a rock `n` roll ending to a song, with a lengthy sustained note at the end.

True, but you can always use the tried and trusted 'fast string tickle' with the second finger to artificially extend the note, especially if the drummer is dragging out the ending somewhat... this gives you as much 'sustain' as you ever need and even gives you time to swear at the drummer, shout 'For f*ck's sake!' at everyone else and roll your eyes before the final denouément.

I've never understood those who will 'upgrade' a bridge thinking it will give more sustain. In my view it does not, and why would you want it to?

[Skol303]

17 minutes ago, discreet said:

I've never understood those who will 'upgrade' a bridge thinking it will give more sustain. In my view it does not, and why would you want it to?

Again, I could be wrong but I'm fairly sure that sustain is related to harmonics, which are definitely related to tone.

More sustain = more harmonics = 'better' tone (with tone being hugely subjective of course!).

Sustain is all about energy. I don't know whether a higher mass bridge adds more energy to the notes being played; perhaps it does but to what degree I dunno.

PS: to clarify I'm not talking about letting the note ring out here... I'm saying that if an instrument's materials/construction imbues it with greater sustain, then that instrument is likely to have a 'fuller' tone whether the notes are played long or staccato.

Edited January 9, 2018 by Skol303

[Huge Hands]

I play in a concert band where you're often reading parts originally written for tuba or arco on a double bass, so you can often get tied held notes across multiple bars.

Having said that, I don't think even the best sustaining guitars could go on for that long without dropping off dramatically in volume.

 

 

[White Cloud]

12 hours ago, chris_b said:

+1

To the OP - In my experience a bass that sustains well usually sounds better than average on the rest of the notes.

Sustain is essential to have but that doesn't mean that you have to use it on every note, but if you need it and the bass can't sustain then it's not a good instrument.

I agree with this - but can also tap into and relate to the original query made by the OP.

In my opinion I generally think that its much less relevant that a bass has exceptional sustain properties as opposed to those of our six string cousins...but it could still be a boon dependent on the musical circumstance.

[stingrayPete1977]

Life in the fast lane by the eagles, the open E is left ringing out under the bass solo bit. It wouldn't work with foam under the strings. 

[discreet]

16 minutes ago, Skol303 said:

I don't know whether a higher mass bridge adds more energy to the notes being played; perhaps it does but to what degree I dunno.

Umm... none.  *Hides in cupboard under stairs... ew, a spider! Runs away*

[Lozz196]

36 minutes ago, discreet said:

I've never understood those who will 'upgrade' a bridge thinking it will give more sustain. In my view it does not, and why would you want it to?

Yep, I only ever upgrade bridges to the ones with grooves in the base-plate, so that there`s less chance of slippage, as am rather ham-fisted/heavy-hitting.

[Cat Burrito]

I avoided sustain for years and was very much into dampening the sound. Only now after 30yrs of playing do I get that it's good to have options. Traditionally we do dampen rather than let it ring but as this thread suggests, there are those occasions where it is nice to let a note ring out.

[Jus Lukin]

-

Edited February 25, 2022 by Jus Lukin

[White Cloud]

1 hour ago, discreet said:

I've never understood those who will 'upgrade' a bridge thinking it will give more sustain. In my view it does not, and why would you want it to?

I'll nail my colours to the mast on this one - I have always upgraded my Fender stock bridges to Badass. My latest Fender has an Omega which is essentially the same thing. 

To my ears it enhances the high end, alters the dynamic on the over-tone and slightly enhances the stability and sustain...and just makes a distinct improvement to the overall sound of the instrument. Detractors may insist that this is a confirmation bias on my part...but to me I like what I like and I like what I hear and that is good enough!