Conan Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 On 14/02/2018 at 17:21, wateroftyne said: The WB-100 is ... just there. Big, fat notes. I'm not going to use the word 'heft'. Oh, bugger. I just used the word 'heft'. I have a short loan of this amp, and gave it a bit of a blast at home last night. It's being used at band practice tonight, so I'll get a chance to see how it sits in that setting... Totally agree with Michael's description above though. I don't have a lot of experience with big old valves, and always wondered what all the fuss was about - but there is just so much 'authority' to the sound of this amp. Even at (relatively) low volume at home, the sound filled the room. It has few features, but they all seem to do quite a lot! The "Feedback" switch in particular. Odd one that. It sounds immense on the "rock" setting, slightly emasculated on "pop" and seriously flabby and deflated on "funk"! I didn't have much time to really explore the possibilities, but for me I think I would just leave it on the "rock" setting. The distortion is lovely, and very useable. For a couple of years I have been using a Behringer BDI21, and although I'm pretty happy with it, I realise that the sound I was trying to achieve exists in this amp! I somehow manages to sound clean and dirty at the same time (no, I don't know what i mean by that either!), but it's largely down to that word "authority" again. Other might call it heft... So first impressions are very good. The sound in my head can also be the sound in the room... It's not heavy, but feels substantial and solid. My one slight concern is that (in it's current spec) the back of the amp is not covered by the case. Maybe I am a bit over-nervous about the valves because I'm not used to seeing them, or maybe because it's not mine and I am paranoid about damage - but I would prefer some rear coverage... Looking forward to drowning out trying it with the rest of the band this evening!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted February 22, 2018 Author Share Posted February 22, 2018 51 minutes ago, Conan said: I have a short loan of this amp, and gave it a bit of a blast at home last night. It's being used at band practice tonight, so I'll get a chance to see how it sits in that setting... Totally agree with Michael's description above though. I don't have a lot of experience with big old valves, and always wondered what all the fuss was about - but there is just so much 'authority' to the sound of this amp. Even at (relatively) low volume at home, the sound filled the room. It has few features, but they all seem to do quite a lot! The "Feedback" switch in particular. Odd one that. It sounds immense on the "rock" setting, slightly emasculated on "pop" and seriously flabby and deflated on "funk"! I didn't have much time to really explore the possibilities, but for me I think I would just leave it on the "rock" setting. The distortion is lovely, and very useable. For a couple of years I have been using a Behringer BDI21, and although I'm pretty happy with it, I realise that the sound I was trying to achieve exists in this amp! I somehow manages to sound clean and dirty at the same time (no, I don't know what i mean by that either!), but it's largely down to that word "authority" again. Other might call it heft... So first impressions are very good. The sound in my head can also be the sound in the room... It's not heavy, but feels substantial and solid. My one slight concern is that (in it's current spec) the back of the amp is not covered by the case. Maybe I am a bit over-nervous about the valves because I'm not used to seeing them, or maybe because it's not mine and I am paranoid about damage - but I would prefer some rear coverage... Looking forward to drowning out trying it with the rest of the band this evening!! Cheers, Conan! Yep - my R-400 has a vinyl cover, and if the WB-100 was staying with me, the first thing I'd do would be to get one made for that, too. Really it would be to protect the tolex and keep moisture out, but I'm like you - the sight of big glass bottles through the grille makes me slightly paranoid. I guess it is paranoia - guitarists lug these things around all the time without giving it a second thought. I suspect the feedback switch will make more sense at volume. I left it in centre (rock) position most of the time, but during rehearsals I tried it on the 'pop' setting and it felt tighter, almost solid-state. Possibly useful in a boomy room, or at louder volumes. The 'Funk' setting didn't grab me, but I didn't really spend much time on it. Maybe it's a slap thing? Enjoy the rehearsal - don't forget to pull the bass back if you need to, and go easy on the contour (at first, anyway). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conan Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 15 minutes ago, wateroftyne said: go easy on the contour (at first, anyway). Yeah, the "contour" control seems to work in a similar way to the VPF on my Little Mark 2. I like my mids, so I rarely use it. That said, there is one song in our covers set (World shut your mouth by Julian Cope) that requires a much more scooped sound, so it is useful for that (as will be the contour control I guess). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pow_22 Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 I really quite fancy trying a R-400. The only thing stopping me is the apparent inability to change all but one of the valves. The design (on pics) seems to suggest 2 of the valves are inaccessible due to the chassis overhanging on top of the valves. A for sale ad on Talkbass from an owner further backs this up. Has anyone with a R-400 got a guts shot of the valves in particular? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted February 22, 2018 Author Share Posted February 22, 2018 1 hour ago, Pow_22 said: I really quite fancy trying a R-400. The only thing stopping me is the apparent inability to change all but one of the valves. The design (on pics) seems to suggest 2 of the valves are inaccessible due to the chassis overhanging on top of the valves. A for sale ad on Talkbass from an owner further backs this up. Has anyone with a R-400 got a guts shot of the valves in particular? I've just asked Leszek about this, 'cos it seems a bit daft if that were the case. His reply began with 'Nonsense!' :-) - he says the valves are inserted at the end of the manufacturing process, and are easily accessible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pow_22 Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 Interest peaked in that case Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodinblack Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 (edited) Isn't this it: If so it seems pretty easy to access As in Quote Unfortunately I can't help you re: the WB100 valve head as I've never played one, and I think Leszek is still tweaking the spec. All I know is that the front-end is the same as the R-400, which IMO is a great thing. re: the 12AX7 - I'm not too technical, but is this the pic you're referring to? Let me know what you mean, and I'll ask Leszek... Edited February 22, 2018 by Woodinblack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pow_22 Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 (edited) See on this pic the far right hand valve looks inaccessible to me. Don't know if its the angle but the black overhanging 'amp shell' seems to be blocking it in? Edited February 22, 2018 by Pow_22 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted February 22, 2018 Author Share Posted February 22, 2018 2 minutes ago, Pow_22 said: See on this pic the far right hand valve looks inaccessible to me. Don't know if its the angle but the black overhanging 'amp shell' seems to be blocking it in? I think there's enough clearance for it to pop out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodinblack Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Pow_22 said: See on this pic the far right hand valve looks inaccessible to me. Don't know if its the angle but the black overhanging 'amp shell' seems to be blocking it in? That looks pretty accessible to me. It is almost certainly not touching the metal (as that would risk damage), which means it can be pulled up and forwards. Valve basses have a level of flexibility. I would also say, it almost certainly doesn't have the valves put in until the unit is assembled (you never leave the valves in when you are moving the boards around), so that valve was put in when that board was there, therefore it can come out as easily Edited February 22, 2018 by Woodinblack 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPJ Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 I was told by the man himself that you can only change one of the preamp valves. Hi Tom, You can change the first tube on 12AT7 (ECC81). Change only the first, when You look on front panel - first from left. You must do it very carefully - when You pull the tube from socket, hold second tube by finger, not pull PCB board. ECC81 is ok. May be JJ - they are cheap and quite reliable Regards Leszek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodinblack Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 That sounds like he means you only change the valve to a different type for sound reasons, not because you physically can't get it out. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cattytown Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 On 1/10/2018 at 19:59, wateroftyne said: I'm trying to convince myself I don't need one...! This. I already have a CTM-100 and Bassman 135... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JapanAxe Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 ^^ What does 'need' have to do with it!? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPJ Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 6 hours ago, Woodinblack said: That sounds like he means you only change the valve to a different type for sound reasons, not because you physically can't get it out. I sent an email asking him about swapping the preamp valves as my basses were driving the front end too much for my tastes. The reply was that only the one valve could be changed for different gain, not all three. I guess I was expecting to be able to change them all. I did try swapping it but of the three or four valves I had, all but the original didn’t want to go in the socket without a fight. I would have thought that valve pins would be pretty standard sizes but apparently not. I ended up putting the original valve back in. The r400 amp sounded great when I could tame the input. I’d love to hear the all valve one through my F112. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodinblack Posted February 22, 2018 Share Posted February 22, 2018 If you wanted less gain at the input stage wouldn't it make more sense to either just replace the passive components, or just replace the input valve anyway, assuming it was a standard input which had two halves of the first valve making the input buffer and gain? If you wanted to replace the other valves, you would be changing the whole character of the amp rather than the gain. Obviously it would be your amp to do what you want with, but if you want to make changes like that you might as well redo the whole preamp, which would defeat the point of getting a specific amp, unless you actually liked the chassis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TPJ Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 Electric stuff is voodoo to me :). I just wanted to drop the gain by swapping the preamp valves. I thought they’d all be swappable but it’s just the one. I don’t know how it all works, nor do I really want to. I just wanted it to sound good which it did to a point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conan Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 22 hours ago, wateroftyne said: Enjoy the rehearsal - don't forget to pull the bass back if you need to, and go easy on the contour (at first, anyway). So... I humped the WB100 along to my regular band rehearsal last night. My usual rig is my Markbass LM2 through either my Barefaced Compact (G2) or TKS H115. Last night I decided to push the boat out and bring both cabs! Partly to allow the amp to push out its full power through 4 ohms, and partly just because I could! Problem was, we were not in our usual room, so the whole set-up and sound was a bit alien. The floor was wooden/laminate rather than the carpet of our usual room, and the arrangement and size were different too. Anyway, to cut a long story short I couldn't get a sound I was happy with in the full band situation Way too much bass for a start (even with the bass control fully anticlockwise). Not enough mids (for me - I do tend to like a very mid-rich tone) and no mid control other than the contour, which reduces them further. Volume was probably sufficient, but my drummer is not particularly hard-hitting even though i think we were louder than usual last night. And that was through TWO quality 8 ohm cabs that are very sensitive. If you play in a proper loud band, I fear that this amp may not have enough headroom - especially if you use a clean sound. All that said, it was only a 2 hour rehearsal, and we are bedding in a new singer - so I didn't have a huge amount of time to explore the amp's capabilities with my cabs. The core tone was still very nice, but it just didn't wow me like it did at home. I would have liked a bit longer with it, and in our usual room to see if it was me that was the issue rather than the amp, but on the basis of last night's experiences I certainly wouldn't be splashing out around £800 on one of these. Please don't take that as a condemnation of the amp, but rather as a criticism of the testing conditions. To sum up then - a lovely amp, but just not for me (in this current band anyway). Thanks for the trial Michael, and I would love to hear how other people get on with this amp! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted February 23, 2018 Author Share Posted February 23, 2018 15 minutes ago, Conan said: So... I humped the WB100 along to my regular band rehearsal last night. My usual rig is my Markbass LM2 through either my Barefaced Compact (G2) or TKS H115. Last night I decided to push the boat out and bring both cabs! Partly to allow the amp to push out its full power through 4 ohms, and partly just because I could! Problem was, we were not in our usual room, so the whole set-up and sound was a bit alien. The floor was wooden/laminate rather than the carpet of our usual room, and the arrangement and size were different too. Anyway, to cut a long story short I couldn't get a sound I was happy with in the full band situation Way too much bass for a start (even with the bass control fully anticlockwise). Not enough mids (for me - I do tend to like a very mid-rich tone) and no mid control other than the contour, which reduces them further. Volume was probably sufficient, but my drummer is not particularly hard-hitting even though i think we were louder than usual last night. And that was through TWO quality 8 ohm cabs that are very sensitive. If you play in a proper loud band, I fear that this amp may not have enough headroom - especially if you use a clean sound. All that said, it was only a 2 hour rehearsal, and we are bedding in a new singer - so I didn't have a huge amount of time to explore the amp's capabilities with my cabs. The core tone was still very nice, but it just didn't wow me like it did at home. I would have liked a bit longer with it, and in our usual room to see if it was me that was the issue rather than the amp, but on the basis of last night's experiences I certainly wouldn't be splashing out around £800 on one of these. Please don't take that as a condemnation of the amp, but rather as a criticism of the testing conditions. To sum up then - a lovely amp, but just not for me (in this current band anyway). Thanks for the trial Michael, and I would love to hear how other people get on with this amp! That's interesting.. cheers, Geoff. Did you get a chance to try the LM2 to take the room / volume out of the equation? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conan Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 (edited) 28 minutes ago, wateroftyne said: That's interesting.. cheers, Geoff. Did you get a chance to try the LM2 to take the room / volume out of the equation? No I didn't unfortunately. A bit of a flawed test in so many ways... Hopefully the info will be useful, but i wouldn't want it to cloud anyone's judgement as the amp could be perfect for other users. Edited February 23, 2018 by Conan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted February 23, 2018 Author Share Posted February 23, 2018 9 minutes ago, Conan said: No I didn't unfortunately. A bit of a flawed test in so many ways... Hopefully the info will be useful, but i wouldn't want it to cloud anyone's judgement as the amp could be perfect for other users. I understand. We all know that in some rooms, lots of waves bouncing around at volume sound like crap :-) It must have been frustrating not being able to hear the mids, and tempting to turn it up. Did the feedback switch make any difference? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conan Posted February 23, 2018 Share Posted February 23, 2018 28 minutes ago, wateroftyne said: Did the feedback switch make any difference? Yes. In fact, on the "rock" setting, it was all a bit "full-on", and also sounding a bit scooped, so I reverted to the "pop" setting, which helped smooth things out a bit. Those controls are a bit of an enigma to me! Anyway, when you get it back this afternoon you will be able to see the settings I ended up with, as they are still set like that! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted February 23, 2018 Author Share Posted February 23, 2018 Ha ha... I’ve just got to the gig and switched it on leaving it set as you had it last night (bass right off) and it’s just a barky, unusable honk...! i reset it back to flat, and it’s lovely again. I think there was definitely something wacky about that rehearsal room :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conan Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 On 23/02/2018 at 20:03, wateroftyne said: I’ve just switched it on leaving it set as you had it last night (bass right off) and it’s just a barky, unusable honk...! That's my tone baby! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tm486 Posted February 28, 2018 Share Posted February 28, 2018 I would quite like to give this a try whilst it's still in Newcastle if that's ok. I've never tried an all valve head, and I was impressed with the Red Fighter I tried when that was here for a trial. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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