Barking Spiders Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 The thread on Radiohead vs Lana del Ray got me thinking about sampling in general and where you peeps stand on this. At one end of the spectrum you've got wholesale unimaginative steals e.g. that krap P Diddy lifting of Every Breath You Take. Even if this was approved by Sting the track shows hip hop at it's least creative and most commercially cynical. On the other hand there are the likes of DJ Shadow and the Bomb Squad (early Public Enemy and Ice Cube albums) who use samples but in such a way you can't identify the sources. To me this is every bit as creative as putting together tunes using guitars, etc. Others say sampling is still lazy, talent free etc way of making music. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodinblack Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 Sampling, when done well is hard and very good. It is no less making music than any other way, in our own way we are all sampling the guitar and amp manufacturers products and all the keyboards are sampling something. I wouldn't really consider it related to the Lana del wossit case, that isn't sampling, that is copying. Although at some level, we all do that a bit too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skol303 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 "Sampling.. but is it proper music making etc?" Yes. Next! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ambient Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 Plunderphonics, it's even got a name. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bazzbass Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 artists that only use samples have no artistic talent, all they are are arrangers of pre-existing music, created by others. not even imho or ymmv ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonyquipment Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 Everything recorded is sampled whether it be from a synth or bass or voice or song it’s still a sample and if rhythmically nice, qualifies as music to me ! My opinion ofc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulWarning Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 isn't sampling a way of copying someone else's idea when you aren't good enough to play it yourself? I copy other people's ideas when songwriting, but at least I play them myself thereby put my on interpretation, style, on it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barking Spiders Posted January 10, 2018 Author Share Posted January 10, 2018 Good to see differences of opinion. I guess a lot depends on how stuff's being sampled, whether the 'artist' is a crate digger or just using digital techniques. Back in them dark days of the 1990s before it all went digital summat like DJ Shadow's Entroducing and The Avalanches Since I Met You were put together using 1,000s of micro samples from largely obscure LPs. Not easy to do well by any stretch, and these albums have been done very well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdown Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 Sampling is more than just lifting bars from previous recordings and creatively chopping them up. Sampling is also recording traditional Instruments chromatically, mapping the notes across a keyboard, then playing/recording/painting in those sampled patches. Midi mockups using Samples is big business these days, some of the works are so good that they can make it onto the final product/Film/TV etc, or mixed in with real Instruments in the final mix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlloyd Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 1 hour ago, bazzbass said: artists that only use samples have no artistic talent, all they are are arrangers of pre-existing music, created by others. not even imho or ymmv ! Using that same 'logic', all Australians are Fosters-swilling, cork-hat-wearing, culture-less surfing loafers. Slightly reductionist, no..? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
project_c Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 2 hours ago, PaulWarning said: isn't sampling a way of copying someone else's idea when you aren't good enough to play it yourself? I copy other people's ideas when songwriting, but at least I play them myself thereby put my on interpretation, style, on it Reinterpretation is exactly what sampling is too. You take a thing, change the context, and it becomes something new. (Sometimes it's creative and interesting, sometimes it's a load of rip off sh!te). Same as collage and painting, collage artists make art by cutting up photos and changing the context - most famous example is probably Sgt Peppers album cover, which is an iconic image, even though it's all sampled. Sir Peter Blake at work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverfoxnik Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 Lots of people write original songs, but some have more talent at it and reach a wider audience with their songs than others as a result.. IMO, the same is true of sampling; lots of people do it as a way to create music, but some do it with far more invention, imagination and skill than others and consequently, reach a wider audience. On a personal note, I think sampling is a totally valid artistic method for creating a new piece of work and is often used in different art forms as a creative tool.. Someone referred to collage for example and the Sgt. Pepper's album sleeve by Peter Blake, which is a great example. On a musical front, Massive Attack's 'Mezzanine' album from the late 90s has samples on it but is, in my opinion, a stunningly original piece of music. Just my 2p worth... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 Almost always, probably really always, my bass lines are things I have 'sampled', 'recycled', 're-used', 'heard before', 'reinterpreted', etc., and sometimes I don't even know where they came from, but they came from somewhere. And musicians have always copied, always sampled ... it's only the copying technology changing that allows new forms of sampling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdown Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 1 hour ago, Dad3353 said: Using that same 'logic', all Australians are Fosters-swilling, cork-hat-wearing, culture-less surfing loafers. Often trashing England at Cricket as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartelby Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 Anyone who says using samples to create new tracks doesn't take skill and massive amounts of talent are pretty clueless really. They need to sit down and listen to stuff created by The Bomb Squad, The Dust Brothers, Pop Will Eat Itself, vast chunks of The Prodigy are manipulated samples. Whether you like it or not it takes a lot of skill to piece together tracks like they do... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 5 hours ago, Skol303 said: "Sampling.. but is it proper music making etc?" Yes. Next! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el borracho Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 48 minutes ago, EssentialTension said: Almost always, probably really always, my bass lines are things I have 'sampled', 'recycled', 're-used', 'heard before', 'reinterpreted', etc., and sometimes I don't even know where they came from, but they came from somewhere. And musicians have always copied, always sampled ... it's only the copying technology changing that allows new forms of sampling. We used to do it pre-digital with tape loops. Had an old reel to reel tape recorder on it's back with spliced tape (there's a lost art!!) stretching across the studio around various mic stands. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 8 minutes ago, el borracho said: We used to do it pre-digital with tape loops. Had an old reel to reel tape recorder on it's back with spliced tape (there's a lost art!!) stretching across the studio around various mic stands. Did exactly the same. Happy days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cato Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 As far as I'm concerned any piece of equipment that can used to create music is a bona fide musical instrument in it's own right. There's a fair bit of snobbery about DJ decks, sampling software and the like from 'proper' musicians, but then apparently 'proper' musicians used to look down on electric guitars and keyboards, in the erroneous belief that those instruments somehow did most of the creative work by themselves, with minimal user input. I suspect that something similar is going on with the newest generation of instruments, but it will pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 1 hour ago, project_c said: ...Same as collage and painting, collage artists make art by cutting up photos and changing the context - most famous example is probably Sgt Peppers album cover, which is an iconic image, even though it's all sampled. Sir Peter Blake at work. That album also featured cut-ups of recordings of fairground music, steam calliopes etc. And other ground-breaking tape effects. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle psychosis Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 4 hours ago, bazzbass said: artists that only use samples have no artistic talent, all they are are arrangers of pre-existing music, created by others. not even imho or ymmv ! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maude Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 The Beastie Boys first album, License to Ill, samples Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath, AC/DC, The Clash, Steve Miller Band, Kool and the Gang, Barry White, Creedence Clearwater Revival and Joan Jetty and the Blackhearts among others and completely changes the style the sampled music. Arguably changed the face of hip hop and is a bona-fide classic in its own right. I'd hope that people who don't like hip hop would agree that The Beastie Boys were not talentless oiks stealing other peoples music. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maude Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 Obviously Joan Jetty is where Joan Jett keeps her boat moored, bloody predictive text 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 1 hour ago, Maude said: The Beastie Boys first album, License to Ill, samples Led Zeppelin, Black Sabbath, AC/DC, The Clash, Steve Miller Band, Kool and the Gang, Barry White, Creedence Clearwater Revival and Joan Jetty and the Blackhearts among others and completely changes the style the sampled music. Arguably changed the face of hip hop and is a bona-fide classic in its own right. I'd hope that people who don't like hip hop would agree that The Beastie Boys were not talentless oiks stealing other peoples music. And Led Zeppelin had their own methods for sampling other people's work. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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