New range from fender.

[fretmeister]

1 hour ago, Twanger said:

Absolutely. Fender is for bass players who know what they like and like what they know. When was the last time Fender introduced a new design that actually stuck? What happened to the Urge? The Roscoe Beck model? Come to that, which artist sig has stuck other than the Jaco bass, which seems to have been around for ever? 

Geddy Lee and Marcus Miller models have been around for years.

[Chiliwailer]

11 minutes ago, chris_b said:

Whenever Fender comes out with a new design. . . . no one buys it. It seems they have not been managed very well and need to draw a line under the past. Expect a reissue of all their models with new names to differentiate now from before.

After all the only difference between an Anderson Strat and a Lull P bass and the Fender originals is quality of manufacture, sound and playability. I'd expect the new models will be better made so that Fender is better placed to be able to compete, and start reducing that massive debt.

I tried a Pro Jazz last year and I liked it. I thought it sounded better than the ASJV I had at the time. Still too heavy for my glass back but if it could shed a few pounds I'd have been tempted.

Interestingly, I’ve had 3 Lull’s and liked them all, but they never had the heft of my Fenders, they were more polite versions of the Fenders I’ve owned. 

I took my 2015 USA Std Jazz to Bass Direct last year to compare to the Lull Jazz they still have, with a view to buy it, but the Std smashed it for tone. Not saying it’d smash all Lull’s, just saying. 

[wateroftyne]

That's the thing with Fender, ain't it? No matter what they do, they're accused of being either too outlandish, or too dull...

[Twanger]

14 minutes ago, fretmeister said:

Geddy Lee and Marcus Miller models have been around for years.

This'll turn into a "What have the Romans ever done for us?" session. But you are right.

[Rumple]

Over £1700 gulp!

[Twanger]

Damn good basses, though. I like Fender. Always have. Man and boy.

[chris_b]

17 minutes ago, Chiliwailer said:

Interestingly, I’ve had 3 Lull’s and liked them all, but they never had the heft of my Fenders, they were more polite versions of the Fenders I’ve owned. 

I took my 2015 USA Std Jazz to Bass Direct last year to compare to the Lull Jazz they still have, with a view to buy it, but the Std smashed it for tone. Not saying it’d smash all Lull’s, just saying. 

This is exactly what the "new" Fender has to do in order to start competing. They've been complacent for far too long and were sleeping walking their way into bankruptcy. The new lines have to be better than before so they can fight back in a very reduced marketplace. They have to start impressing the guys who look at this news and think, "Yeah, so what!"

I'm impressed that you have a Fender that sounds better than a Lull. That would be my go-to bass if I found  one. Sadly, I bet it's not under 4kg.

Edited January 16, 2018 by chris_b

[CameronJ]

Fender really need to start looking at what other builders are doing. The likes of Maruszczyk, Sandberg, Lull, Sadowsky, Moolon...the list of builders who seem to make better Fenders than Fender themselves at competitive price points is as long as my arm. There’s little incentive for many of us to buy a brand new Fender and the sale of used models obviously brings no new revenue in for the company. Out of interest, anyone know how Fender are doing, financially?

[fretmeister]

21 minutes ago, Rumple said:

Over £1700 gulp!

That's my thought.

I'll have a 50s Mex any day.

[FinnDave]

Purely a personal observation, but it seems that the enthusiasm for 'boutique' basses expressed on this forum doesn't translate into mass sales. I would think that the number of players who equate 'bass guitar' with Fender must be in excess of 75% of all players of the instrument. In the real world, rather than the rarified atmosphere of a specialist forum, I have never heard any negative comments when I have turned up with a US Fender. They are an industry standard, and are likely to remain so for many years to come. Say what you like about more modern designs, technology, etc, the truth is most bass players regard a Fender bass as an essential tool if you expect to be taken seriously by anyone considering hiring you. A Fender bass will keep it's value far better than any beautifully crafted, hand made special, simply because they have such a wide appeal.

Go ahead and tell me I'm talking out of my backside, but you won't change my opinion.

[CameronJ]

4 minutes ago, FinnDave said:

Purely a personal observation, but it seems that the enthusiasm for 'boutique' basses expressed on this forum doesn't translate into mass sales. I would think that the number of players who equate 'bass guitar' with Fender must be in excess of 75% of all players of the instrument. In the real world, rather than the rarified atmosphere of a specialist forum, I have never heard any negative comments when I have turned up with a US Fender. They are an industry standard, and are likely to remain so for many years to come. Say what you like about more modern designs, technology, etc, the truth is most bass players regard a Fender bass as an essential tool if you expect to be taken seriously by anyone considering hiring you. A Fender bass will keep it's value far better than any beautifully crafted, hand made special, simply because they have such a wide appeal.

Go ahead and tell me I'm talking out of my backside, but you won't change my opinion.

To be fair, you’re right.

[paul_c2]

100% agree. I see Fender - not in a bad way - as the "Vauxhall Astra" of guitar manufacturers. They are high-volume, middle of the road, dependable. Yes there's more interesting/exotic stuff out there, but its irrelevant for much of the time. 

I can't really specifically comment on their most recent financial status or the new prices, because I've always been the kind of person to buy used. Guitars don't really "wear out", or go out of date, well not in the same way as eg cars or operating systems, and s/h prices are better than new, so it just makes sense.

Yes, I have a Fender too (of course!). And yes, I did try a number of other basses, before choosing Fender.

[EliasMooseblaster]

Hang on... "Original '50s / '60s / 70s"? Could this be an attempt to recreate the earlier success that Squier had with the Classic Vibe series?

I agree with all the above points that Fender are basically damned if they do, damned if they don't. To wit, I've always thought it a pity that the Blacktop and Modern Player series seemed to sink without trace. I do wonder why they don't try a series that addresses some of the perceived problems with the original designs - a 5-string that doesn't divide opinion and actually gives them serious inroad into the ERB market; or a standard bridge which isn't just a BBOT (even Gibson seem to be moving away from the dreaded 3-point, for crying out loud...).

[fretmeister]

1 minute ago, FinnDave said:

Purely a personal observation, but it seems that the enthusiasm for 'boutique' basses expressed on this forum doesn't translate into mass sales. I would think that the number of players who equate 'bass guitar' with Fender must be in excess of 75% of all players of the instrument. In the real world, rather than the rarified atmosphere of a specialist forum, I have never heard any negative comments when I have turned up with a US Fender. They are an industry standard, and are likely to remain so for many years to come. Say what you like about more modern designs, technology, etc, the truth is most bass players regard a Fender bass as an essential tool if you expect to be taken seriously by anyone considering hiring you. A Fender bass will keep it's value far better than any beautifully crafted, hand made special, simply because they have such a wide appeal.

Go ahead and tell me I'm talking out of my backside, but you won't change my opinion.

You are absolutely right about the appeal of the good old Fender bass, and that many producers will say "have you bought your Fender?" when turning up to a studio.

But that's also because the producer / engineer is damn lazy and hasn't found out how to record other basses. Steve Swallow's anecdotes about that very problem are quite revealing. He only plays his Harvey Citron bass and nothing else. He's booked because of his "sound" and yet every time "Where's your Fender...?"

 

I'm not convinced much holds it value anymore - a quick look at the classifieds or ebay shows that, but a US Standard is one that suffers less soul crushing depreciation than others. But that doesn't seem to be true of the Vintage range or of the Mex range. Other brands have it worse, but only in comparison to the US Standards and not the others.

 

But despite all that the main thing is - Fender claim things are new when they are not. They haven't done anything innovative in the world of bass guitar since they designed the jazz bass. For that reason spec changes (not upgrades) reek of money for old rope and price gouging. Fender churn them out on highly efficient CNC machines and the used market is saturated. A US Fender doesn't hold it's value as much as it used to and until Fender reduce production numbers to just meet demand rather than just running the CNC machines at full throttle all the time the depreciation will increase.

 

The entire point of the Vintage models is to go back in time to the glory days. Of course they look lovely and no doubt some prefer those older designs. But to charge more for a demonstrably poorer design is taking the fosters. Either that or bassists (me included because I really want a relic'd jazz like Bobby Vega's!!) are gullible nobbers.

[Chiliwailer]

45 minutes ago, chris_b said:

This is exactly what the "new" Fender has to do in order to start competing. They've been complacent for far too long and were sleeping walking their way into bankruptcy. The new lines have to be better than before so they can fight back in a very reduced marketplace. They have to start impressing the guys who look at this news and think, "Yeah, so what!"

I'm impressed that you have a Fender that sounds better than a Lull. That would be my go-to bass if I found  one. Sadly, I bet it's not under 4kg.

Actually Chris, I'm fairly certain it's a shade under 4kg! Thing is, though I've bonded with it more than any Jazz I previously owned, I'm sure there are better Jazz's out there. I was genuinely shocked at how it stood up to the Lull, I mainly bought it for the feel whilst thinking that the tone would be good enough for my needs, the Lull was a GAS attack I was pleased to leave behind. 

Fender is marmite, you either love them or go on a forum and get out that pent up anger!  

Edited January 16, 2018 by Chiliwailer

[discreet]

So... skimming through today's threads we learn that you're probably best off with an old Peavey TNT combo and a used Fender bass.

Hooray! Ten years of membership to find the best gear was totally worth It!

[kodiakblair]

1 hour ago, wateroftyne said:

That's the thing with Fender, ain't it? No matter what they do, they're accused of being either too outlandish, or too dull...

They do a nifty line of underpants and pencil cases.

[Ndldean]

The LPB 60s P bass has me going all weak at the knees.... a few months of wear on that and I'll be in heaven...

[wateroftyne]

1 minute ago, Ndldean said:

The LPB 60s P bass has me going all weak at the knees.... a few months of wear on that and I'll be in heaven...

A few months? Remind me never to lend you any of my stuff :-D

[discreet]

Blue with tort... blooargh!!

[FinnDave]

12 minutes ago, discreet said:

Blue with tort... blooargh!!

Gotta agree, that colour combination doesn't exactly inspire me, and I'm a great admirer of tort 'guards. I have black, white, and two sunburst Precisions, all with tort guards, all look fine to my eyes (obviously, or I'd change them!)

[FinnDave]

1 hour ago, paul_c2 said:

100% agree. I see Fender - not in a bad way - as the "Vauxhall Astra" of guitar manufacturers. They are high-volume, middle of the road, dependable. Yes there's more interesting/exotic stuff out there, but its irrelevant for much of the time. 

That's me then, six Precisions, one Jazz and an Astra estate! And the car before that was an Astra hatchback, simply outgrew it.

[Cato]

7 hours ago, Doctor J said:

Fender slightly modify the same old things and give it a new name, the same depressing business model they’ve followed for quite some time. They are in one hell of a rut. It’s sad that a company once known for such revolutionary innovation have descended into being their own tribute band.

Sad as it may be, people don't want innovation from Fender.

They've launched a number of original non-classic designs over the years, all have them have been commercial failures.

[timhiggins]

Its nice to play and have played all sorts of bass's but when it comes down to it my most played and recorded bass 

is my fender jazz it's also been the most popular with other band members and producers.

[Marvin]

American Professional, Elite, Vintage and now Original series. 

There just seem to be too many ranges to me. There's no point in Fender doing 'new', its customer base just won't buy any of it. If it were me, I'd go for a simplified product range of what they do best.