Learn To Read Music

[Bilbo]

There is no ramming going on (I don't teach so there is no opportunity to ram anything anywhere), I am just saying how marvellously helpful it is as a learning tool over and above the 'sight reading on a gig' idea. Obviously,  there are great players who don't read. Good for them. They found another way.

[mikel]

Like most things in life there are many ways to improve creativity. If something sounds good, to you, then it is. Most of my creative moments on both bass and drums have come from happy accidents, or what seemed at first like mistakes. It could be argued that if you simply follow convention you will end up with nothing new. If the aim is to write commercial music then learning to read and following tried and tested chord progressions will probably do it.

[paul_c2]

But the two aren't mutually exclusive - you can be "creative" AND know how to read music. One does not prevent the other from occurring.

[mikel]

11 minutes ago, paul_c2 said:

But the two aren't mutually exclusive - you can be "creative" AND know how to read music. One does not prevent the other from occurring.

Exactly, cos thats not what I said. The OP suggested his grasp of melody, and his ability to compose better music, would be enhanced by learning what others have done by reading their music. Possibly, but possibly not. I suggested there were other ways, like experimentation. Not knocking reading merely adding to the debate by offering alternatives.

[paul_c2]

OK no worries, I obviously misinterpreted "It could be argued that if you simply follow convention you will end up with nothing new. "

[mikel]

2 hours ago, paul_c2 said:

OK no worries, I obviously misinterpreted "It could be argued that if you simply follow convention you will end up with nothing new. "

I don't see any problem with "Could".  A wise man once said "If you do what has always been done, don't be surprised if you get what has already been got".

[Bilbo]

My point was that progress is more systematic, quicker and more strategic. I wouldn't want to wait for happy accidents. 

[mikel]

4 hours ago, Bilbo said:

My point was that progress is more systematic, quicker and more strategic. I wouldn't want to wait for happy accidents. 

Depends how long it takes you to learn to sight read music properly.

[ianrendall]

I learnt the church organ for many many years before taking up bass. The first year of organ playing was solely on the pedals (bass clef) which in retrospect gave me a great head start. I got to grade 7 organ and grade 6 theory in the end.

My boring advice would be to buy a keyboard and learn from that. Maybe have a few lessons or theory lessons, maybe even singing lessons even if you’re not a singer. Listen to music genres that you wouldn’t normally listen to, even JS Bach. It’ll give you a fresh perspective if nothing else. 

[mikel]

24 minutes ago, ianrendall said:

I learnt the church organ for many many years before taking up bass. The first year of organ playing was solely on the pedals (bass clef) which in retrospect gave me a great head start. I got to grade 7 organ and grade 6 theory in the end.

My boring advice would be to buy a keyboard and learn from that. Maybe have a few lessons or theory lessons, maybe even singing lessons even if you’re not a singer. Listen to music genres that you wouldn’t normally listen to, even JS Bach. It’ll give you a fresh perspective if nothing else. 

Yep, agreed. Listen to as much music as you can. The ears are the best tool you have. Its music, its an art, not a science, there is no right or wrong just what sounds good to you.

[Dad3353]

4 hours ago, mikel said:

Depends how long it takes you to learn to sight read music properly.

Reading dots and sight-reading dots are not quite the same. It's not required to read 'on sight' to be able to appreciate notation, and it's extremely beneficial to read, even slowly. Sight-reading takes, typically, much more practise, and needs to be maintained, or it gets lost. Reading, on the other hand, only gets better and better, even if practising sporadically. There are not so many musicians that can really sight-read.

[paul_c2]

Worth also pointing out, there are very few situations where you have to sight read, and even then its normal to have an amount of time between being first shown the music and playing it. Even in a music exam situation, you're given 30 secs looking at it and can try bits out if you want, before doing the whole thing. In those 30 secs, its worth having a quick look at anything that looks complicated; and turning the page if its >1 page of music just in case there's anything interesting/difficult. But then.....that's for music in general, for bass guitar, AFAIK, none of the formal exams require sight reading off of standard notation anyway.

Having said that, sight reading just develops naturally from practice, I don't think there's anything particularly special about it, you just get better and quicker at reading and better at playing a variety of stuff. It is true that "you are what you practice".

[lowdown]

Up until recently, I was a full time pit/show player (30 years). Sight reading was a must for that type of work. Vary rarely would you have access to the score/charts before rehearsals. (Although for potential deps , the pad would get copied and sent out to them during rehearsals or early in the run). Depending on the show, rehearsal periods could be from two days to two weeks, usually in three hour periods/sessions, two or three times a day. The way I looked at it, come press night or opening night, you were not sight reading, you were looking at the dots (you had already played over the show/tunes many times and had become vary familiar with the charts, arrangements & notes) You had got through the ‘sight reading period’ and had taken most of it on board. Saying that, I did come across players who after several months, still had the heads buried in the charts.

Having depped many times on shows as well, I found depping to be real hard for ‘sight reading’. No room for errors on the first couple of shows (no rehearsal crutch to fall on for mistakes). Going in cold, hopefully with plenty of preparation under your belt. Sometimes even sitting through one or two shows beforehand to get a feel for the show, arrangements and the conductor(s).

On two occasions (two shows), I had to (what was called) ‘baby sit’ deps. They play and you sit next to them in case of any disasters...strange, but true and after speaking to the deps afterwards, very nerve wracking.

 

Even Orchestras usually get good rehearsal time, so the actual sight reading diminishes. On the Scoring stage for films, that is where sight reading is heavy. No time for serious rehearsing.

 

So yes, reading notes and sight reading are two different beasts. The more notes you read through practice, the more fluent you become.

Edited January 20, 2018 by lowdown

[Bilbo]

Having improved my reading,  I am now finding dozens of books that I have had for years are now accessible in ways they were not before. I guess it must be the same as learning to read later in life and all of literature becoming available. 

[lowdown]

3 minutes ago, Bilbo said:

Having improved my reading,  I am now finding dozens of books that I have had for years are now accessible in ways they were not before. I guess it must be the same as learning to read later in life and all of literature becoming available. 

Yeah, I recently have found a couple of sites to download full orchestral/film scores. I can follow the score while listening to the track. A real learning curve for me, regarding picking up composing and arranging tips.

[Dom in Dorset]

I was forced to start sight reading a few years ago playing for pantomimes. The problem is that I don't have the time or opportunity to do it for the rest of the year so every time I get  panto gig I have to re-learn what I picked up the previous year. The MD offered to send me the score in tab but I stick to conventional notation as I'm hoping I may be able to use it for none bass related activities too some day.
As others have said the basic principals are simple enough , you just need to put in a vast amount of practice. like learning a language you'll only become fluent if you use it regularly.

[dmccombe7]

I very rarely use Tablature these days but i like to keep my hand in. Altho i took lessons for a year (40 years ago) I'm in no way a sight reader but can work my way thru it........slowly.

I find i'm using BASS TAB far more these days but i'll use whatever i can get my hands on.

Its easier to get TAB for free whereas you generally need to pay for proper Tablature or music sheets

Edited January 20, 2018 by dmccombe7

[lowdown]

21 minutes ago, dmccombe7 said:

It's easier to get TAB for free whereas you generally need to pay for proper Tablature or music sheets

Here you go.

Free Bass transcriptions to download...(actually, there are quite a few,  free (Bass) transcription sites on the net - down in theory as well).

 

Quite a few Chuck Rainey charts here.

http://www.lowdownbass.net/transcriptions/

 

Although a Big Band site, some Tower of Power Bass charts in among the full scores.

http://www.mindformusic.com/big-band/80-artists/345-tower-of-power

 

A few Quincy Jones charts as well.

http://www.mindformusic.com/big-band/80-artists/315-jones-quincy

Edited January 20, 2018 by lowdown

[peteb]

 

[fretmeister]

I forgot my folder for rehearsal this morning. I relied on memory. Went fine.

 

Until we got to 2 new tunes I had never even listened to before. Was given a trad score. No chord names above bars, just fly stinky poo. Nothing so embarrassing as having to sit and write each note name on the music while 25 other people wait. 

 

I must practice more.

 

 

[ambient]

On 17/01/2018 at 19:06, Bilbo said:

Invent a key signature acronym.

 

Flats = Boys Eat And Drink Guiness Crisps Freely

Sharps = Frank Carson Gets Dad An Elephant Bugle

 

...or whatever sits easily in your mind.

 

A good way to remember flat keys, especially to those playing a 5 string bass, is by remembering the notes at the first fret of each string. So they only need look quickly at their bass to see what the key would be, e.g the first fret on the B string is a C, E string F, A string Bb, D string Eb etc, and remembering that it starts with none, then one flat, then 2 etc.

Sharp keys are the cycle of 5ths, so start  on the same C, move up in intervals of a 5th, so up a string along 2 frets is 1 sharp and G, up a string and along 2 frets is 2 sharps and D, etc.

Edited January 20, 2018 by ambient