Gigging without a car

[SpondonBassed]

21 minutes ago, PaulWarning said:

but you've got a lot more watts, Mr Popular 

Story of my life.  All the Watts but no idea!

[Dan Dare]

 

On ‎20‎/‎01‎/‎2018 at 09:54, Twanger said:

I don't think it's an issue of selfishness. It's not selfish to choose to live in a village and it's not selfish to choose not to have a car. The reasons I don't have a car are that they're too expensive, too much hassle, nowhere to park, traffic jams, unnecessary for daily life, and I have never really liked driving - I am not confident behind a wheel and feel much safer and more aware of what's going on on two wheels. I also don't have a UK driving licence. I learned to drive while living abroad, and got my licence in a non EU country. My licence is not recognised here.

The selfishness does not come in those decisions. The selfishness lies in what you expect other people to do about those decisions. I will not be playing in a band where I will be exploiting motorised musicians, so the issue doesn't arise. 

Maybe and maybe not. It's not so simple. If, for example, others are transporting/providing a PA or items of equipment you depend on to perform, then you are exploiting them, or depending on them, at any rate. If you're happy to pay them for their efforts, that's not so bad. However, if everyone decided that having a car was "too expensive, too much hassle, nowhere to park, traffic jams, unnecessary for daily life" and that they "have never really liked driving", where would you be then?

[Twanger]

45 minutes ago, Dan Dare said:

where would you be then?

Right where I am now. 

 

Edit to expand. I'm a bit surprised at the number of people who seem to think I'm freeloading because I don't drive. Look, I'm not saying no one should drive. I have my reasons for not driving, and I'm sticking with them. I realise that my choices mean I will not be gigging with a 4x10, but I'm happy with that. I started this thread because I'm interested in hearing about how other people cart their gear around by public transport, not to criticise people who do drive.

Edited January 21, 2018 by Twanger

[SpondonBassed]

10 hours ago, Dan Dare said:

 

Maybe and maybe not. It's not so simple. If, for example, others are transporting/providing a PA or items of equipment you depend on to perform, then you are exploiting them, or depending on them, at any rate. If you're happy to pay them for their efforts, that's not so bad. However, if everyone decided that having a car was "too expensive, too much hassle, nowhere to park, traffic jams, unnecessary for daily life" and that they "have never really liked driving", where would you be then?

Where do you stand on drivers giving up their cars when they feel it would be safer for everyone concerned?

I said I would never become one of those old boys who is clearly out of their depth in traffic due to old-age related issues.  Not only do I have the onset of cataracts but I have increasing rage issues because of the way that my grey hair attracts abuse from mardy twenty-somethings who think they have the right to take over the world.  I've always asked if my sight is okay for driving at each eye test and it is officially.  Despite the official all-clear from my optician I have found that in some circumstances I wasn't seeing everything I should.  That would be reason enough but there is the added complication.

My biggest fault is that I react to abuse without thinking.  Twice in the past I have got out of the car and intimidated an abusive driver back into his car after he'd decided to come over and sort me out!  The number of times that I have had to use my road experience to prevent an accident because of some youth's bravado getting him into trouble is remarkable.  It looked inevitable that this could only progress to the point where I am the problem so I have stopped driving.  I have no anger issues now.  I am not about to go back to that either.

Trust me.  You lot are much safer now that I do not own a car or motorcycle.  Can you imagine me behind the wheel of a white van?

[steantval]

On 21/01/2018 at 08:40, FinnDave said:

How do drummers manage in London? Do the venues mostly have house kits, so they just need socks sticks & breakables? I play a lot in Oxfordshire & Wiltshire pubs, and some are surprised we need electricity! We have to take everything, including lengthy mains extensions, as the only available socket maybe some distance from where we are expected to set up and play.

I cannot understand why a drummer or a bass player would want to play on equipment provided by a venue.

I would assume most of it would be sub standard stuff that’s been hammered.

I have my own individual sound based on the bass guitar and amplification I use and this also fits in with the overall sound of our band, using another amp that is provided just does not make sense to me.

Our drummer Ray has a couple of high end kits and top of the range cymbals, I’m pretty sure he would not be happy playing another kit , it comes down to your individual set up, it’s a personal thing.

[BigRedX]

34 minutes ago, steantval said:

I cannot understand why a drummer or a bass player would want to play on equipment provided by a venue.

I would assume most of it would be sub standard stuff that’s been hammered.

I have my own individual sound based on the bass guitar and amplification I use and this also fits in with the overall sound of our band, using another amp that is provided just does not make sense to me.

Our drummer Ray has a couple of high end kits and top of the range cymbals, I’m pretty sure he would not be happy playing another kit , it comes down to your individual set up, it’s a personal thing.

Because most of these gigs a multi-band affairs and you will have 30 minutes at best in which to get one band off the stage and another onto it and ready to start their set. Without a shared drum kit and some backline provided that isn't going to happen.

And as a bass player unless you have no PA support the contribution your rig will make to the FoH sound is going to be minimal.

[Twanger]

3 minutes ago, steantval said:

I cannot understand why a drummer or a bass player would want to play on equipment provided by a venue.

I would assume most of it would be sub standard stuff that’s been hammered.

I have my own individual sound based on the bass guitar and amplification I use and this also fits in with the overall sound of our band, using another amp that is provided just does not make sense to me.

Sometimes the options are using the venue's stuff or not playing. When I was playing in Ankara, most bass players and drummers were not rich. A full rig might cost $1000, but in Turkey that was three months average salary - and if you could find one for sale. I remember a new Fender Bassman 350 watt 2x10 combo turning up in one music shop and all the bass players standing around it drooling. That was, at the time, the only actually usable bass amp on sale in the city. Mostly the amps on sale were Marshall B65, Fender BXR 100  or Laney RB3s. I don't know if anyone actually bought the Bassman combo. Sometimes a rich kid would import something really special, but the rich kids didn't play bass.

You would be paid about a tenner for playing and get limited free beer. You used the house bass amp. It was the local economy. I would take my own amp in all cases other than two bars where they had good house amps, but for those gigs I would take my Sansamp and bypass the preamp stage. It was a different situation. All the bands on the circuit knew each other. They'd even swap personnel, and sub for each other when musicians were ill. 

All bars where music happened had their own FOH. Every single one. I don't know of any band which would take its own PA to a bar gig. I don't know any band which actually had a PA. 

It was a completely different context to one where professional, organised bands are transporting a whole setup to a gig for a specific contracted function. It was a cheap bar circuit.

The point is that there are many different ways of playing, and many different reasons for playing. My semi-pro days are over, and any playing I do now will be purely for the fun of it.

[mcnach]

2 hours ago, steantval said:

I cannot understand why a drummer or a bass player would want to play on equipment provided by a venue.

I would assume most of it would be sub standard stuff that’s been hammered.

I have my own individual sound based on the bass guitar and amplification I use and this also fits in with the overall sound of our band, using another amp that is provided just does not make sense to me.

Our drummer Ray has a couple of high end kits and top of the range cymbals, I’m pretty sure he would not be happy playing another kit , it comes down to your individual set up, it’s a personal thing.

 

Because it's practical.

You may prefer your drumkit, but if transport and/or setup times are an issue, your tolerance to provided kits increases.

Same with bass... I much prefer my own but if it's a hassle and they provide one, I go with it. It may not sound teh same, but it will not be THAT different. You're going through the PA in most cases, so your amp becomes a glorified bass monitor in those situations. I will use my own everytime I can, but if it is going to be a pain due to parking restrictions etc and I have an alternative? I'll use what they give me. I may not enjoy it quite as much (although sometimes you do get very good equipment) but we will still sound good out there even if onstage it's not amazing.

[stingrayPete1977]

I've said it before but if your songs need a specific bass sound to work live then you have bad songs. 

[steantval]

5 minutes ago, stingrayPete1977 said:

I've said it before but if your songs need a specific bass sound to work live then you have bad songs. 

Sorry Pete but I don’t get your statement.

Its got nothing to do with the songs, it’s the bass sound I have worked towards through purchasing high end amplification, using a different amp/cab will not be my sound.

If all amps/cabs sounded the same, why do we need ( and purchase) all the different makes and configurations that are currently available?

Over the years I have played many multiple band gigs and as a band we (as well as the other bands) have brought our own drum kit and back line amplification, 15 to 20 minute changeovers are no problem, the drummer has all his kit all set up backstage and just needs to carry it out plus our own individual back line gear, first song of the set is a sound check.

[EBS_freak]

I guess it all depends upon the gig - but relying upon gear to play bass is going to hold you back more as a bass player than anything else.

If you are the bass player that insists on all sorts of gear and as a consequence is a nightmare to work with... isn't worth the hassle. Maybe the increased use of modellers is people's ways of dealing with the perceived problem?

[mcnach]

14 minutes ago, steantval said:

Sorry Pete but I don’t get your statement.

Its got nothing to do with the songs, it’s the bass sound I have worked towards through purchasing high end amplification, using a different amp/cab will not be my sound.

If all amps/cabs sounded the same, why do we need ( and purchase) all the different makes and configurations that are currently available?

Over the years I have played many multiple band gigs and as a band we (as well as the other bands) have brought our own drum kit and back line amplification, 15 to 20 minute changeovers are no problem, the drummer has all his kit all set up backstage and just needs to carry it out plus our own individual back line gear, first song of the set is a sound check.

 

I do prefer my own gear... but if I am given something else I'll still get a similar enough sound. Not the same sound, but a similar enough sound. I understand preferring your own gear, of course! I use mine most times. But I really don't understand saying that you won't get 'your sound' with something else...

Edited January 22, 2018 by mcnach

[DJpullchord]

There is an argument that a half decent guitarist or bassist should be able to make any old crap sound tolerable.

[EBS_freak]

Here's a suitable analogy...

A £50 heap of junk car will transfer your donkey from A to B as will a brand new 30k one. The point is, the value of the car doesn't stop you getting from A to B.

Why should a bass rig stop you doing A to B in your performance. The gear may not perform to how you wish it would - but it certainly shouldn't be the main steer for getting you there.

 

Can you imagine any bass great turning down a gig because they aren't plugging into their favourite backline?

[discreet]

8 minutes ago, DJpullchord said:

There is an argument that a half decent guitarist or bassist should be able to make any old crap sound tolerable.

I agree up to a point... if you're recording, you may like to use a favoured bass for various reasons but live, it's not as important. To this end I've been selling off my decent basses and amps and replacing them with any old crap - and I sound pretty much the same.

Edit: Spent an awful lot of money before I figured this out.

Edited January 22, 2018 by discreet

[EBS_freak]

Just now, discreet said:

I agree up to a point... if you're recording, you may like to use a favoured bass for various reasons, but live it's not as important.

And in a studio environment, you'll have so much tweaking available to you, your favourite bass may end up sounding nothing like the sound of your favourite bass!

Similarly, if you are going through a PA live, what you do behind the desk has a bigger influence on your sound than the amp and cab... (unless you are running your backline far too loud that the volume overpowers your PA)

[discreet]

2 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

And in a studio environment, you'll have so much tweaking available to you, your favourite bass may end up sounding nothing like the sound of your favourite bass!

Exactly, my point was more that you may prefer it because of its familiarity rather than any inherent 'sound'. Same goes for gigs, I suppose. If you were about to do a gig and got handed a bass you'd never played before with an action that needed a taxi to get from the strings to the fretboard, it may just affect your performance.

[EBS_freak]

4 minutes ago, discreet said:

Exactly, my point was more that you may prefer it because of its familiarity rather than any inherent 'sound'. Same goes for gigs, I suppose. If you were about to do a gig and got handed a bass you'd never played before with an action that needed a taxi to get from the strings to the fretboard, it may just affect your performance.

True - but that's the physical interaction with the instrument. Anything after that is just taste - and that's subjective.

[discreet]

2 minutes ago, EBS_freak said:

Anything after that is just taste - and that's subjective.

It most certainly is.

[Twanger]

1 hour ago, EBS_freak said:

Can you imagine any bass great turning down a gig because they aren't plugging into their favourite backline?

I can imagine a bass great turning down a gig because they're plugging into a piece of crap.

[Len_derby]

2 hours ago, Twanger said:

I can imagine a bass great turning down a gig because they're plugging into a piece of crap.

Well, they might do now. But I think we can be certain that many times in their earlier career the outcome would have been different.

[josie]

4 hours ago, discreet said:

If you were about to do a gig and got handed a bass you'd never played before with an action that needed a taxi to get from the strings to the fretboard, it may just affect your performance.

Just a bit. I got caught out last summer when I unexpectedly had the chance to play in the jam at Carlisle Blues Festival with some absolutely top musicians and was handed a Jazz with tape-wound strings and a very high action. Highest profile gig of my life so far and I could barely get a note out of the d@mned thing. I'd have taken my own bass up on the train from Manchester if I'd even suspected it might happen.

Imho if someone knows they're in a "house" band and might have other people playing their bass, they have some sort of responsibility for it to be a fairly standard set-up, even if within the band they play something unusual. I imagine handing a five-string bass to all comers would not be universally popular.

 

[ambient]

4 hours ago, DJpullchord said:

There is an argument that a half decent guitarist or bassist should be able to make any old crap sound tolerable.

I saw Anthony Jackson do a masterclass with Mike Stern at my old university. He was playing through one of the university Ashdown combos, and sounded amazing.

[EBS_freak]

14 minutes ago, ambient said:

I saw Anthony Jackson do a masterclass with Mike Stern at my old university. He was playing through one of the university Ashdown combos, and sounded amazing.

Is that your way of saying Ashdown are crap? :-p

[ianrendall]

40 minutes ago, ambient said:

I saw Anthony Jackson do a masterclass with Mike Stern at my old university. He was playing through one of the university Ashdown combos, and sounded amazing.

Did he have to get a lift?