Gigging without a car

[ambient]

11 minutes ago, ianrendall said:

Did he have to get a lift?

It was London, he probably went by tube, which is how must people seem to get about down there. Including musicians.

[ianrendall]

7 minutes ago, ambient said:

It was London, he probably went by tube, which is how must people seem to get about down there. Including musicians.

Strapped a couple of his massive Foderas to his feet and waterski’d I expect. 

[discreet]

19 minutes ago, ianrendall said:

Strapped a couple of his massive Foderas to his feet and waterski’d I expect. 

Or maybe used them as wings.

[mcnach]

4 hours ago, josie said:

 

Imho if someone knows they're in a "house" band and might have other people playing their bass, they have some sort of responsibility for it to be a fairly standard set-up, even if within the band they play something unusual. I imagine handing a five-string bass to all comers would not be universally popular.

 

 

I'm not sure... anybody with a reasonable level of competence should be able to work with a 4/5/6 string bass... it may not be as comfortable as their favourite instrument, but it won't be unplayable. If I wanted to make sure I'd be able to join the house band and be really comfortable, I'd bring my bass. 

[SpondonBassed]

17 hours ago, discreet said:

Exactly, my point was more that you may prefer it because of its familiarity rather than any inherent 'sound'. Same goes for gigs, I suppose. If you were about to do a gig and got handed a bass you'd never played before with an action that needed a taxi to get from the strings to the fretboard, it may just affect your performance.

 

13 hours ago, josie said:

Just a bit. I got caught out last summer when I unexpectedly had the chance to play in the jam at Carlisle Blues Festival with some absolutely top musicians and was handed a Jazz with tape-wound strings and a very high action. Highest profile gig of my life so far and I could barely get a note out of the [email protected] thing. I'd have taken my own bass up on the train from Manchester if I'd even suspected it might happen.

Imho if someone knows they're in a "house" band and might have other people playing their bass, they have some sort of responsibility for it to be a fairly standard set-up, even if within the band they play something unusual. I imagine handing a five-string bass to all comers would not be universally popular.

 

I would say that the only responsibility the house band has is to hand you an instrument that is in tune.  That's not cast in stone either.

I'd love to agree with you though.  I've done an Open Mic where I've been caught out by an insistence that I play the house bass despite having my own with me.  I was stood in the wrong spot for the monitor too because the cable was short and routed badly.  I was more crap than usual because of it so I get your point.

Next time I went to that pub it was with @PaulWarningand Wendy as their guest.  I suppose because we appeared as a trio for the first few numbers I didn't get pressed into using the house bass.  I was still rubbish but I felt much more capable and probably sounded a bit better too.  When I came away I revised my ideas about these sorts of sessions.  Like yourself, I will always want to play my own bass but I am ready to go regardless.

Getting asked to step up when you aren't ready is also something I have experienced.  It didn't go very well but it won me the notoriety of a short piece of video on twitter when someone kindly clipped out a relatively botch-free part of my meagre effort.  I did have my own bass for that but I could just as easily been handed the house bass.

My point is that you can't predict what you'll be given but you are expected to make do. I see it as a necessary part of my development on my way to becoming a well-rounded player to meet these circumstance and cope.

'standard set-up' - what is that anyway?  We had a thread a while ago where BC members compared action at the 12 fret.  I'm still trying to pick the bones out of that one.

Oh yes, OT; my housemate gave me a lift to the local OMs and I got a taxi home each time.  @Len_derby was kind enough to invite me and give me a lift to the other OM out of town.

Last year was the busiest bass year I've had.  That's not saying a lot by average standards but it is a booster for my timid ego.  This year I aim to build on it.  No car though.  Wish me luck.

[wateroftyne]

I've worked with loads of musicians who don't / can't / won't drive, and they all fall into different categories.

Some of them assume they're making their own way unless offered a lift, and are extremely grateful when that happens.

The worst ones are the ones who half-expect to be picked up and dropped off by someone else, for petrol money or 'a couple of drinks', forgetting that the driver has to leave earlier, get home later, and pay a chunk of money for having a car in the first place.

Good luck to any drummers out there without a car...

(I appreciate life is different in central London, etc. so the above doesn't apply)

Edited January 23, 2018 by wateroftyne

[Wolverinebass]

3 minutes ago, wateroftyne said:

I've worked with loads of musicians who don't / can't / won't drive, and they all fall into different categories.

Some of them assume they're making their own way unless offered a lift, and are extremely grateful when that happens.

The worst ones are the ones who half-expect to be picked up and dropped off by someone else, for petrol money or 'a couple of drinks', forgetting that they have to leave earlier, get home later, and pay a chunk of money for having a car in the first place.

Good luck to any drummers out there without a car...

(I appreciate life is different in central London, etc. so the above doesn't apply)

Okay. I haven't driven in 15 years due to having had a really bad accident. Nobody was hurt and even though it wasn't my fault, I'm never going to drive again because of that.

About a year ago I auditioned for a band that had a tour booked and festivals etc. I learned the songs and the audition went well. Or at least until they asked how I got to the studio (I hasten to add, having a car wasn't in the ad). I said I'd got the train and then walked. What then followed was the most excruciating 30 minutes of asking me why I don't have a car and every single other hypothetical situation you could imagine.

So, here we go. They tended to meet in Dartford if they were playing out of London. How do I get there with my stuff? A taxi. It's 5 miles. What about playing up London? They were based in Kent. Well, I live about 600 yards from the A2 so you're driving past my house anyway. I'll give you whatever you want for petrol. If you don't want to do that, I'll take the pod and make my own way there. Old school.

Despite that and the fact that I was happy to have them rehearse and record at my studio for nothing the fact that I didn't have a car was more important than any of these things.

None of what I said is taking the fosters. They however felt that was unacceptable and although didn't say why, didn't give me the slot. How I laughed when they didn't get anyone else for almost a year and had to cancel all their dates. 

Incidentally, I don't drink anymore so nobody would be ferrying me hither and yon whilst I was thrashed.

[discreet]

46 minutes ago, Wolverinebass said:

...having a car wasn't in the ad...

I've read lots of 'bass player wanted' ads (like many here) and the words 'must have own transport and gear' appear so often that they are surely implied if they do not. While I sympathise with your situation, from the perspective of a driver who has many times ferried people (and their gear) about - even nice, sober appreciative people who offer petrol money - I can tell you that it's a complete pain in the bum.

Maybe this band of drivers had similar experiences and just didn't want to put themselves through it again. Another point is that it's difficult for car-owners to imagine how anyone can possibly get about using only public transport, because they never have to use it!

Edited January 23, 2018 by discreet

[Twanger]

This country seems to be divided into car owners and non car owners! 

I totally get a working band requiring its members to have transport. But I don't get why a hobby player should be held to the same rules.

[discreet]

12 minutes ago, Twanger said:

This country seems to be divided into car owners and non car owners!

It really is. I understand the environmental, political and financial reasons why people would not want to own a car, but in the real world I just wouldn't be able to function as a bass player without one - in my opinion. Of course, it comes in useful for other things as well.

12 minutes ago, Twanger said:

I totally get a working band requiring its members to have transport. But I don't get why a hobby player should be held to the same rules.

What is the difference between a working band and a hobby band and what are their requirements and expectations? I suspect it's more complicated than merely just the difference between a pro or semi-pro band and an amateur band. This point could probably do with a thread of its own...

Edited January 23, 2018 by discreet

[FinnDave]

10 minutes ago, Twanger said:

This country seems to be divided into car owners and non car owners! 

I totally get a working band requiring its members to have transport. But I don't get why a hobby player should be held to the same rules.

It's nothing to do with 'rules'. just a simple matter of what's practical. If you live and play in a city with decent public transport, it would seem that you can get along without needing a car. For people who live in more rural areas (like me) then a car is essential if you expect to have any chance of playing with people any distance away. I'm currently rehearsing with a band 100 miles away, with a gig planned in a couple of months over 200 miles away. I suppose I could do that by train, but I'd need a lift or a taxi to get and from the station at each end, and I certainly wouldn't be taking more than one bass and a minimal kit bag. I can see how it would work, but most of us who have experience of gigging with a non-driving member of a band know that it inevitably falls on the other band members to move them and their kit around. Obviously, exceptions are made in the event of sickness or injury (my wife drove me to and from rehearsals and gigs when I was confined first to a wheelchair and then on crutches after an accident).

[discreet]

2 minutes ago, FinnDave said:

I'm currently rehearsing with a band 100 miles away, with a gig planned in a couple of months over 200 miles away.

What a long, strange trip that'll be...

[FinnDave]

8 minutes ago, discreet said:

What a long, strange trip that'll be...

Quite honestly, it'll just be One More Saturday Night

[steantval]

20 minutes ago, Twanger said:

This country seems to be divided into car owners and non car owners! 

I totally get a working band requiring its members to have transport. But I don't get why a hobby player should be held to the same rules.

I assume what you mean by working bands, these are pro players and do it entirely for a living and by hobby players you mean guys/gals who play at the weekends in bands but it is not their main occupation.

I would hazard a guess that this site membership is probably split to a max of 20% pro players and the rest are as you call them “hobbyists”.

I come under the “hobbyist” category and I do not reside in or anywhere near London, we book gigs up to a 45 mile radius of where we are based.

I have been in a total of eight bands since the 80’s and one criteria in all of them is that everyone has their own transport.

[Wolverinebass]

19 minutes ago, discreet said:

I've read lots of 'bass player wanted' ads (like many here) and the words 'must have own transport and gear' appear so often that they are surely implied if they do not. While I sympathise with your situation, from the perspective of a driver who has many times ferried people (and their gear) about - even nice, sober appreciative people who offer petrol money - I can tell you that it's a complete pain in the bum.

Maybe this band of drivers had similar experiences and just didn't want to put themselves through it again. Another point is that it's difficult for car-owners to imagine how anyone can possibly get about using only public transport, because they never have to use it!

See, I'm not buying this at all. By extension, this argument suggests that having a car trumps musical aptitude, production skills, enthusiasm, availability and whatever other skills (marketing or whatever) you might have or be able to bring to the table. Surely this can't really be the case across the board?

If someone lived in the wrong direction I'd never make issue of it and just sort it out myself or make a judgement call about if it was feasible to join in longevity. No problem. They were being unreasonable.

I accept that cover bands carry pa's and whatnot, but originals are a totally different kettle of fish for the most part. 

[EBS_freak]

1 hour ago, wateroftyne said:

The worst ones are the ones who half-expect to be picked up and dropped off by someone else, for petrol money or 'a couple of drinks', forgetting that the driver has to leave earlier, get home later, and pay a chunk of money for having a car in the first place.

Singer I know, whenever I do gigs with him, he expects this as he is a nervous driver. It's kinda annoying - but he's the best vocalist I've ever worked with... so I'll let it ride.

Go the other direction - complete annoying *** of a keys player. Her response about travelling to gigs - "I could drive. But why should I?"

Funny - it's just reminded me of a particular journey I did with her. Her dad waited with her with keyboards at a truckers diner so I could pick her up with her gear. Bit annoyed as a little out of the way but it was a long drive (south coast from Birmingham) so in the grand scheme of things, it wasn't too bad. Cut a long story short, drove down, did the gig and drove back... she was asleep all the time she was in the car. When I reached the truck stop to "meet up with her dad" again, she dropped the bombshell that her dad was never coming and I'd have to drive her up the motorway to where she lived (an hour way - adding two hours onto my journey). Everybody said I should have just left her there... but I just thought, it would be just my luck that she would get raped or something and I'd be all over the news for leaving a female all alone at a truckers diner.

Oh the stories I can tell about that band. 

[Twanger]

21 minutes ago, discreet said:

It really is. I understand the environmental, political and financial reasons why people would not want to own a car, but in the real world I just wouldn't be able to function as a bass player without one - in my opinion. Of course, it comes in useful for other things as well.

What is the difference between a working band and a hobby band and what are their requirements and expectations? I suspect it's more complicated than merely just the difference between a pro or semi-pro band and an amateur band. This point could probably do with a thread of its own...

Well, motorised bands - don't worry. I won't be auditioning. But if anyone else has any stories of how they get their gear around on public transport, in a city, without exploiting the driving members of the band they're in, I'd love to hear them.

[Twanger]

To clear up a terminology point - by "hobby" band, I mean one which costs you money rather than makes you money. It really is just for fun.

[wateroftyne]

10 minutes ago, Wolverinebass said:

See, I'm not buying this at all. By extension, this argument suggests that having a car trumps musical aptitude, production skills, enthusiasm, availability and whatever other skills (marketing or whatever) you might have or be able to bring to the table. 

Being able to turn up and play with minimum fuss counts for a hell of a lot.

43 minutes ago, Twanger said:

I totally get a working band requiring its members to have transport. But I don't get why a hobby player should be held to the same rules.

Because the hobbyist will be being ferried about by another hobbyist who is potentially now finding it less of a hobby.

[discreet]

10 minutes ago, Wolverinebass said:

By extension, this argument suggests that having a car trumps musical aptitude, production skills, enthusiasm, availability and whatever other skills (marketing or whatever) you might have or be able to bring to the table. Surely this can't really be the case across the board?

Having a car doesn't trump musical aptitude or skills, but it does trump not having a car. As said above, it's purely a practical consideration.

[discreet]

8 minutes ago, Twanger said:

Well, motorised bands - don't worry. I won't be auditioning.

So you'd be looking for bands in which no-one has a car? A band that exclusively uses public transport..?

[FinnDave]

In the end, it's your choice whether you have a car or not, and  it's the band's choice whether they are willing to take on a member who doesn't drive. For some bands, that won't matter, for others it will be a deal breaker.

[Twanger]

6 minutes ago, FinnDave said:

In the end, it's your choice whether you have a car or not, and  it's the band's choice whether they are willing to take on a member who doesn't drive. For some bands, that won't matter, for others it will be a deal breaker.

Exactly!

[Wolverinebass]

4 minutes ago, wateroftyne said:

Being able to turn up and play with minimum fuss counts for a hell of a lot.

 

So, when I turned up 15 minutes early after learning 9 songs in 2 evenings that counts as turning up and playing with more than a minimum of fuss? Just clarifying that.

It's unreasonable. I have never demanded a lift off anyone. Nor would I. I always pay my way if it has to be done and if it's not possible I look as to how I can fix the situation myself. If someone's going to be driving past my house with literally a 5 minute detour and I'm paying for them to do it, doesn't that make sense? If it was a massive detour I wouldn't ask. Fair is fair.

I don't begrudge or envy anyone with a car. I certainly wouldn't take advantage of anyone who has one either. I just won't drive again after having a massive accident. Maybe I should have therapy if my musical career is over due to it.

[Twanger]

11 minutes ago, discreet said:

So you'd be looking for bands in which no-one has a car? A band that exclusively uses public transport..?

Ha! That would be fun! No, a band where it doesn't matter.

I don't use a car. When I needed timber for a project at home in December I walked to the woodyard (it took half an hour) and had it delivered (it came the same day - and I paid for the delivery guy). I do my weekly shop with a rucksack - to the amazement of my driving friends. They offer lifts. I say no. I appreciate the open spaces in the country, but I do like living in cities, not least because of the freedom not have a car.