Tripehound Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 This may be a stupid question but... After years of using a regular amp I have recently moved to using a DI pedal straight and floor monitor. Sounds good to my ears and positive feedback from audiences. So far so good but I'm never completely satisfied so... I started to look at cab simulators - examples are the TwoNotes Torpedo Cab and the considerably-cheaper Digitech CabDryVr. 1) Is this worth investigating further - worth the effort and the expense? 2) Why don't they have XLR output if they are last in the signal chain, after the preamp? Oh - that's two stupid questions.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrixn1 Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 (edited) Perhaps you could buy one (or both) from somewhere like gear4music who give free 30-day returns - I believe they even cover the return postage. A cheaper alternative could be one of the Zoom multi-effects pedal, like the B1on, MS-60B, or B3. They don't have cab modelling as such, but the amp modelling includes a choice of cab simulation. Myself - I use a Zoom MS-60B into a powered speaker. And yes, I need a separate DI box to send to FOH. Edited January 22, 2018 by jrixn1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 I've found that a lot of those types of units don't have enough output level to drive a frfr anyway. I use something like a Lehle Sunday Driver XLR or even a Behringer Mic 100 to push the levels and so an xlr out on the other units is sort of moot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dood Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 I have the Fender rebadged version of one of these (actually I have two) - which do a rather nice job of creating a simple Cab Sim EQ curve. The curve is supposed to be a 4x12 guitar cabinet but the lows are definitely there as well. http://www.hotroxuk.com/mooer-mdi1-micro-di-box.html?utm_source=GoogleBase&utm_medium=organic&gclid=CjwKCAiA15vTBRAHEiwA7Snfc1Hd8vl3nZaSRcNW7irNUFtEB4FkwDtEwNCrrstnbaJ2UZS84ayFDhoCgocQAvD_BwE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannybuoy Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 (edited) The OmniCabSim pedal is great, it has an XLR output with lots of volume on tap and the Deluxe version even has a (mono) headphone amp with aux in. The pluses of this particular unit are that it's 100% analog (low power usage, less noise issues on a daisy chain, zero processing delay which is useful if you're also sending a dry signal to the FOH also) and that you have hands on control to fine tune the response to get the sound just right. Downsides are you have to order one direct from Chile! Edited January 23, 2018 by dannybuoy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skybone Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 On 22/01/2018 at 00:56, jrixn1 said: Perhaps you could buy one (or both) from somewhere like gear4music who give free 30-day returns - I believe they even cover the return postage. A cheaper alternative could be one of the Zoom multi-effects pedal, like the B1on, MS-60B, or B3. They don't have cab modelling as such, but the amp modelling includes a choice of cab simulation. Myself - I use a Zoom MS-60B into a powered speaker. And yes, I need a separate DI box to send to FOH. What sort of powered speaker do you use? Is that just for 'on stages monitoring? I've been through a Zoom B3, a PODxt Live, and now use a POD HD500x (the B3 & HD500 have xlr outs). The HD is my favourite so far, great sounds, but not exactly a low cost option, even second hand (bought mine second hand). You should be able to find a pretty decent Zoom B3 second hand for a reasonable price. The only downside to the HD is the 'lack' of amp & cab models. However, the ones that are on it sound pretty darn good IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrixn1 Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 33 minutes ago, Skybone said: What sort of powered speaker do you use? Is that just for 'on stages monitoring? I'm only a recent convert to powered speakers - an RCF HD-10 which yes I use just for on-stage monitoring. See this thread - https://www.basschat.co.uk/topic/317870-rcf-hd-10-vs-barefaced-one10/ I'm happy so far but I might wait till I've done a few more gigs with this system before selling off my previous traditional rig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 (edited) I'm not sure cab sims are a great idea for bass. Guitar, definitely, but not for bass guitar. All you would be simulating would be the extra distortion and frequency response abberations / limitations that bass cabinets produce. Jrixn1, what you have with your RCF cab is the kind of sound you get straight into the desk in the recording studio or through a quality PA. Of course, you can tweak it and modify it, but your basic "tone" is already ideal. Cabs for bass guitar are generally not much more than a speaker stuck in a cabinet. Some have a tweeter added to give a bit of tizz but, with very few exceptions, they are not equalised to be flat. To clearly hear the difference between what an RCF-style monitor does and what a typical bass cab does, play some music through them with voice. Edited January 24, 2018 by stevie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dood Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 4 hours ago, stevie said: I'm not sure cab sims are a great idea for bass. ... with very few exceptions, they are not equalised to be flat. I think you just answered your own question It's all about adding colour. Pickups, tonewoods, strings, effects, one amplifier choice over another, etc etc. Actually using an accurate cab sim can do a great job of helping to sit in the mix. Take for example the lovely fridge 8x10 with it's big roll off below 50hz (cuts sub frequencies) and the bump in the midrange (adds warmth). If distortion is the order of the day, then the natural top end roll off (no tweeter version) saves hassling with DSP EQ to make it sound nice FOH rather than if you have ever plugged a guitar distortion direct into a PA, a nasty fizzy sound.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skybone Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 I'd disagree that amp sims aren't for bass, I'm very happy with the results I'm getting from the HD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CameronJ Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 For me the usefulness of a cab sim depends largely on whether you’re a bass > cable > amp kinda guy or a bass > pedalboard > amp kinda guy. If, like me, effects are your thing then getting a full-range, uncoloured sound is ideal. I let my pedals do my tone shaping. If you don’t use effects at all then I suppose in a way the colouration a traditional bass cab gives you is your effect. Personally I love the sound of my basses dry through a PA and let my onboard tone controls do any tweaking I need. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFRC Posted January 24, 2018 Share Posted January 24, 2018 13 hours ago, stevie said: I'm not sure cab sims are a great idea for bass. Guitar, definitely, but not for bass guitar. All you would be simulating would be the extra distortion and frequency response abberations / limitations that bass cabinets produce. Jrixn1, what you have with your RCF cab is the kind of sound you get straight into the desk in the recording studio or through a quality PA. Of course, you can tweak it and modify it, but your basic "tone" is already ideal. Cabs for bass guitar are generally not much more than a speaker stuck in a cabinet. Some have a tweeter added to give a bit of tizz but, with very few exceptions, they are not equalised to be flat. To clearly hear the difference between what an RCF-style monitor does and what a typical bass cab does, play some music through them with voice. I play at church through a DI box straight into a PA .... amateur people manning the PA desk think that "bass guitar" is all about everything under 60Hz right? I think I pulled up one of the graphs you had made for the Basschat DIY cab and spent some time showing them the frequencies I actually should be in... a cab sim would help put the key tone somewhere in the right place in the mix. I had a B3 once, I don't actually know why I sold it as I quite liked it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 (edited) If you already have a cab with a flat frequency response (quite a rarity), whether or not to use cab sims is perhaps more of a philosophical question. The question being: do you consider your bass guitar to be a guitar, or do you consider it to be a bass instrument? As we all know, electric guitars sound awful through flat-response speakers. They need that midrange honk and HF distortion to make them come alive. But that's the last thing you want if you have a double bass, for example, or an electric piano, because you want to amplify their sound without adding those peaks and dips that make it sound unnatural. If you want to add colour, fine. But I'd rather have complete control over the colour I create and play through a loudspeaker that can reproduce it properly. I can't see how a cab sim can add anything worthwhile. I'm talking about simulating the sound of a cabinet here, not an amp, tone controls or effects. Edited January 25, 2018 by stevie 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannybuoy Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 Anyone saying they aren't useful can't have tried one in combination with distortion. Just as a guitar through a fuzz pedal going direct into a PA or headphones sounds awful, so does a bass - yet it sounds great going into an Ampeg 810. If you want to recreate that sound for live FOH or with your FRFR monitor or IEMs on stage, a cab sim is just the ticket! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beer of the Bass Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 (edited) I could see the value with certain fuzz pedals, though it's something I haven't got around to playing with yet (having few electric bass gigs at the moment). When running a DI with my Superfuzz clone, it takes a competent sound guy, a decent desk and a little time in the soundcheck to sort out the excess high end fizz that a tweeterless bass cab cuts out. A lot of my gigs don't have all of those things, but that pedal does exactly what I want when used through my cabs. I think I'd rather have a simple lowpass response rather than a more complex cab simulation though. Edited January 25, 2018 by Beer of the Bass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 I have to confess, I have not used distortion for decades. In fact, I've spend decades trying to get a great clean sound. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ahpook Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 (edited) I used the cab sim on a EBS MicroBass II as the feed to the FOH for years and only got good reactions from the person doing the sound, both with and without overdrive. That's good enough for me. It's not an overbearing tonal change but it works. Everybody's gig is different tho - I'd say if you've not used one try one. Edited January 25, 2018 by ahpook Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannybuoy Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 29 minutes ago, stevie said: I have to confess, I have not used distortion for decades. In fact, I've spend decades trying to get a great clean sound. The best way to get a great clean sound is to distort it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevie Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 It might take me a while to figure that one out.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CameronJ Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 6 hours ago, dannybuoy said: Anyone saying they aren't useful can't have tried one in combination with distortion. Just as a guitar through a fuzz pedal going direct into a PA or headphones sounds awful, so does a bass - yet it sounds great going into an Ampeg 810. If you want to recreate that sound for live FOH or with your FRFR monitor or IEMs on stage, a cab sim is just the ticket! In my case, though, I just tailor the tone of my distortion and fuzz so they sound great through headphones and my RCF monitor, and therefore I know that they’ll sound the pretty much the same through any PA I’ll have to play through. The sound guy can EQ me to taste if needed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannybuoy Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 Exactly, and a cab sim is superb at doing just that! Just think of it as a unique EQ purposely designed for what you are trying to achieve. You can only go so far with for example a Big Muff tone control or preamp/EQ - e.g. most preamps don't feature LPF/HPF controls, just bass/treble shelving, which sounds quite different. All I'm saying is don't write it off it you haven't tried one! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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