Frank Blank Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 So. I was driving a colleague of mine into work the other day and at his request I put some music on, the iPod was on shuffle and obviously in a particularly controversial mood as after the first song, a Talking Heads track, finished the iPod began playing I Didn't Know I Loved You (Till I Saw You Rock and Roll) by Gary Glitter, this is a snippet of the ensuing conversation... Colleague: Is this Gary Glitter? Me: Indeed it is. Colleague: You still listen to him? Me: Clearly. Colleague: But he's a *expletives deleted* paedo.* Me: *light heartedly* Well I'm just not that much of a revisionist. The rest of the journey (after I'd turned the track off due to the look of utter evil I received) was spent in silence and things have been a little frosty since. Despite having my argument down I am beginning to wobble on this. Am I wrong to listen to the track? If we took all the evil doers out of music what would we be left with? Is playing music by this individual some kind of collusion? My library has a copy of Mein Kampf on the shelves does this make my library a nazi library? Discuss... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodinblack Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 It is different for some people than others. I listen to the music as the music, and don't give much of a thought about the people who made it, to me they are very separate things so I am very happy to listen to something I like that is made by someone who I really dislike. My wife on the other hand who was a teenager in LA in the 80s and met pretty well everyone has songs she won't listen to because she doesn't like the people involved. There are some tracks I won't listen to that I like when she is there as she hates the people involved so much, or they harmed her in some way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Blank Posted January 21, 2018 Author Share Posted January 21, 2018 I too have music made by people I dislike and whom I know to be awful people, in one case I have music by people who have been particularly nasty to me, I still listen if I like the song. Again I realis I’m posting a subject that has no right or wrong answer but I just don’t think it warranted a reaction that made me feel complicit somehow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Little Dragon Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 I hope the next song wasn't the Lost Prophets...... 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
josie Posted January 21, 2018 Share Posted January 21, 2018 "Complicit" gets to the heart of it for me. If I listen to this music, am I somehow endorsing the views of the musicians? If I buy (for example) eggs laid by caged hens, I am absolutely complicit in the cruelty to those hens, because my money is going back to the people who inflict that cruelty. (That example comes to mind because I've been dealing with it this weekend.) If I listen to Motown, am I complicit in their exploitation of black musicians? I now know that my most ever favourite blues rock guitarist is a Trump supporter - should I let that ruin my intense delight in his guitar playing? Those two are actually different - one is historical and one is now - that seems to matter, but should it? If the music promoted the nastiness, then no. I would never play in a UKIP band, or buy their cds even if I liked the sound. Personal connections are different - I'm lucky that I only have music I wouldn't otherwise like, made by friends, so I go with it for the sake of friendship. If I had negative personal associations with a particular musician, I probably would reject their music too - but that's about emotional resonance, not complicity. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kodiakblair Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 I don't really bother my shirt, it's just music. A friend of mine otoh likes to find out as much as he can about whatever writer,director,musician he's in to. Upshot is he always ends up denouncing as complete ????? then can't enjoy their work any longer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 1 hour ago, Frank Blank said: If we took all the evil doers out of music what would we be left with? Is playing music by this individual some kind of collusion? My library has a copy of Mein Kampf on the shelves does this make my library a nazi library? Of course this guy is an idiot. I hope he doesn't buy anything made in China. To do so would be to support a nasty, vicious, totalitarian state the crushes personal freedom under foot. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lojo Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 (edited) Personally I'd be put of listening to anyone with Gary Gilters rap (I did see him live 3 times and loved the shows). Having said that I know you can take this to any level you like regarding the behaviour of an artist or sportsperson etc so I'd not judge anyone who still listens to glitter just because it puts me off his music Listening to someone doesn't make you like them after all Also , I'm not sure if his band get anything out of sales etc but it's a shame for the band they also have been written off by many . I suppose it's like one hit wonders who where on TOTP with Savile , they'll never get aired again on reruns despite it not being their fault Edited January 22, 2018 by lojo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 I guess it's a personal thing. As a Probation Officer, I long since learned to judge behaviour and not individuals. One of the things about GG is that he has never, to my knowledge, undergone any form of treatment intervention. I would love to see him doing the Thames Valley Sex Offender Treatment Programme and monitor his reactions to challenge. As for his music, I think it is s shame that those associated with him have lost their income stream at exactly the point where they need it. If hearing the music brings associations to mind, best leave it alone. If not... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodinblack Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 The glitter band were on TOTP the other day, they did some songs on there own. But not any of the good ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jezzaboy Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 I don`t really have an opinion on GG`s music but it`s your car, play whatever you like. Tell him to get the bloody bus! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itsmedunc Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 20 hours ago, Frank Blank said: So. I was driving a colleague of mine into work the other day and at his request I put some music on, the iPod was on shuffle and obviously in a particularly controversial mood as after the first song, a Talking Heads track, finished the iPod began playing I Didn't Know I Loved You (Till I Saw You Rock and Roll) by Gary Glitter, this is a snippet of the ensuing conversation... Colleague: Is this Gary Glitter? Me: Indeed it is. Colleague: You still listen to him? Me: Clearly. Colleague: But he's a *expletives deleted* paedo.* Me: *light heartedly* Well I'm just not that much of a revisionist. The rest of the journey (after I'd turned the track off due to the look of utter evil I received) was spent in silence and things have been a little frosty since. Despite having my argument down I am beginning to wobble on this. Am I wrong to listen to the track? If we took all the evil doers out of music what would we be left with? Is playing music by this individual some kind of collusion? My library has a copy of Mein Kampf on the shelves does this make my library a nazi library? Discuss... Well, I did a gig just before Christmas with one of Gary Glitters Ex drummers. Should his career be ended too due to association? Should I be shunned? 😳 Most folk loved Gary Glitter in the 70's and reconciling his deeds with his music is truly a tough one. I think a lot of folk are too scared to play his tracks even though they still like them. Good on you for listening to what you like and not listening to others sitting in judgement. Funny how there's a good few musicians who blatantly had relationships with children that are still regarded as heroes of the music world though. But that's another story... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taunton-hobbit Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 I was married to someone who wouldn't listen to Jerry Lee or David Soul......... ........I mean, really? ....jeez Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KingPrawn Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 I personally think it’s really simple. Regardless of an individuals ability as a muso or professional standing. People like GG of which there are many. Indeed we’re almost seeing daily revelations of high profile individuals being exposed as inadequate . Along with them there are people in powerful positions in many walks of life who abuse their power. In the case of GG he used his power to meet his own deprived needs, disregarding the Life long impact on his victims. He’s ruined the lives of many people. I personally don’t get why people appear to accept or minimise the behaviour of famous people as less serious than any other inadequate individual who seeks out and exploits vulnerable people. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graham Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 I struggled with this myself recently I came to the conclusion that it's best to just ignore anything around a song you like; so long as your enjoying it don't worry about anything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJpullchord Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 Sleeping with children muddies anything he wrote for me. He wasn’t any good anyway was he? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 I probably wouldn't listen to the material but I'd have to say 'Rock and Roll (Parts 1 & 2)' would feel more acceptable than 'Do You Want to Touch Me'. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Dare Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 3 hours ago, Woodinblack said: The glitter band were on TOTP the other day, they did some songs on there own. But not any of the good ones. Were there any? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cato Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 I was never a huge fan of Lost Prophets but I did tag a long with a mate to see them about ten or fifteen years ago now. To be fair I thought they put on a superb show I even bought a couple of CDs. I really don't think I'd want to listen to them again. Some of the details that came put during their singer's trial were truly sickening. I don't think I could hear their music without being reminded of that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 It gets complicated ... Gary Glitter may earn £1m from Oasis royalties Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Dare Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 1 minute ago, EssentialTension said: It gets complicated ... Gary Glitter may earn £1m from Oasis royalties Not really. If the money is legally his, it's his. He may have to count it behind bars, but it's still his. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 1 minute ago, Dan Dare said: Not really. If the money is legally his, it's his. He may have to count it behind bars, but it's still his. I was not making a comment about the money being legally his; of course the money is legally his, as the court decided. My point was about listening to Glitter by listening to Oasis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretmeister Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 Art is not the artist. go back 100 years and it’s likely every piece of art was made by a racist. Another few and you’ll find slavers. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted January 22, 2018 Share Posted January 22, 2018 1 minute ago, fretmeister said: Art is not the artist. go back 100 years and it’s likely every piece of art was made by a racist. Another few and you’ll find slavers. I'd generally agree with that. If one adopts a particular moral stance about artists and then applies that stance retrospectively, then quite quickly there won't be much acceptable art left. Meanwhile, I don't have to listen to Glitter if I don't want to and I am free to reject (or not) other artists because of their misdemeanours if I so choose. Sometimes I use Eric Gill's Gill Sans font. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellzero Posted January 23, 2018 Share Posted January 23, 2018 How is he going to spend £1m in jail ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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