Advice on cab choice please

[Sammybass]

Hello

After playing in a large venue (for us anyway) at the weekend, I've decided it's time to upgrade my TC Electronics BC410 to something with more headroom, to get the most 4 ohm juice out of my TC BH800 head.

Question is, do I go for two TC K-Series 2x10 or 2x12's (in series?) and stack them, or opt for something like the Markbass 104HF (4 ohm) rated at 800w.

My budget is around £750, and we play a mix of rock, pop and indie covers with my sound ranging from super clean to gritty to fuzz/synth octave silliness. I love the sound of 4x10's with a tweeter.

Any advice would be great!

[Lozz196]

Well it may be worth considering a K-Series 410 & 210, if within budget. Each cab will get the same amount of power which in theory can be a bad thing, but I`ve done this with a good few makes now (Ampeg, Marshall, currently with Ashdown) and it`s worked very well. The addition of that extra two 10s going is very nice, as as well as getting full power from your amp - unlikely you`ll ever need that tho, I would have thought - you are adding another 50% of coneage, plus raising it higher so you hear yourself better. And then for rehearsals you only need to take the 410 along, so it makes life a little easier not having to lug two cabs about all the time. I`ve found in larger venues that the more speaker cones plus the higher up they`ve been the easier it`s been to hear the bass well.

[Chienmortbb]

Going for a single 4 ohm Cab is a bit limiting. Go for two 8 ohm cabs in parallel.

[Dan Dare]

1 hour ago, Chienmortbb said:

Going for a single 4 ohm Cab is a bit limiting. Go for two 8 ohm cabs in parallel.

Good advice. Gives you a scalable rig, which you can tailor to suit the size of the job.

[chris_b]

4 hours ago, Sammybass said:

Hello

After playing in a large venue (for us anyway) at the weekend, I've decided it's time to upgrade my TC Electronics BC410 to something with more headroom, to get the most 4 ohm juice out of my TC BH800 head.

Question is, do I go for two TC K-Series 2x10 or 2x12's (in series?) and stack them, or opt for something like the Markbass 104HF (4 ohm) rated at 800w.

My budget is around £750, and we play a mix of rock, pop and indie covers with my sound ranging from super clean to gritty to fuzz/synth octave silliness. I love the sound of 4x10's with a tweeter.

Any advice would be great!

Upgrading your 4 ohm 410 cab to another 4 ohm 410 cab will sound different but really not much louder than you are right now (unless you get a cab containing more sensitive drivers).

Upgrading from 1 4 ohm 410 to 2 8 ohm 410's will add much more tone and volume, because you got more drivers to move more air. If you want to stay with one cab you'll probably need to be looking at cabs built with different design objectives.

Does your budget include the current cab? By that I mean do you have to sell this cab before you can but the next one? If not and you can stretch to another £100 you can get a far better 410 than the ones you mentioned, and your 800 watts wouldn't even make it break into a sweat!

[Sammybass]

Interesting replies - thank you very much!

So upgrading from a 500watt to an 800watt rated 410 won't allow me to go louder? That's disappointing, because I'm not sure the missus will be happy with two 410's in the house! Maybe the 410 + 210 (both 8 ohm) is the answer. I'll do some research!

Thanks!

[Lozz196]

If you go from an ok rated efficiency 500 watt 8ohm cab, say 98dB, to a good efficiency rated 800 watt 4ohm cab, 103dB for example you will get slightly more volume, and given the efficiency of the cab it hopefully should better represent the sound being - usually - a better cab anyway. But really, on the much larger stages, it`s speaker cones that have the advantage.

Think of a vodka & tonic, equal parts vodka & tonic you taste the vodka pretty well. Now have that same amount of vodka matched with 10 times the amount of tonic, suddenly you don`t taste the vodka as much. Probably a pony way of explaining it, but that`s how my ears have found it over the years, big stage = more speaker cones (or better on-stage monitoring of course).

[chris_b]

4 hours ago, Sammybass said:

So upgrading from a 500watt to an 800watt rated 410 won't allow me to go louder? That's disappointing, because I'm not sure the missus will be happy with two 410's in the house! Maybe the 410 + 210 (both 8 ohm) is the answer. I'll do some research!

It depends on how sensitive the new cab is. You could probably go a little louder without distorting your sound but (as Lozz says, depends on your choice and the rating of the cab). You might also find another cab that gives you a better tone, but the difference between 500 and 800 watts will not be as much as you expect. Won't be a 50% increase in volume. I used to own an Epifani 410 rated at 1000w and I still needed to add a 210 in one of my bands to get enough volume for the mad guitarist.

You can add a 210 to your 410 which will give you more volume and tone. Just remember to keep to within the spec of the 210, ie don't over drive the smaller cab. That's still 2 cabs and is probably the cheaper solution to your problem.

But if pure volume from a single cab is your requirement. . . .  then the cab I was referring to in my previous post was the Barefaced Four10. That is the only 410 that I know that will get close to an 810 is terms of clean volume. I have the Two10 and they sound pretty good.

[stevie]

You forgot the bit about phoning Alex.....

[Sammybass]

Haha! Well I just sold my Supertwin so I might just leave that for a bit! 

I think I might just go for a Big Twin 2 and have done with it. Everyone seems to think that more cones = more volume though. Hmmmm...

[pbasspecial]

Was going to recommend getting Barefaced cabs to you!

[chris_b]

1 hour ago, Sammybass said:

I think I might just go for a Big Twin 2 and have done with it. Everyone seems to think that more cones = more volume though. Hmmmm...

More drivers can mean more volume and better tone, but it really depends on the design of the drivers and the cab.

I thought we were in 410 territory, but if you're up for a BT2 then IMO there aren't many cabs out there that will be able to compete with one of those.

[stevie]

4 hours ago, chris_b said:

But if pure volume from a single cab is your requirement. . . .  then the cab I was referring to in my previous post was the Barefaced Four10.

The OP's query was for "something with more headroom, to get the most 4 ohm juice out of my TC BH800 head". An 8-ohm cab seems like an odd solution.

[stevie]

9 hours ago, Sammybass said:

Interesting replies - thank you very much!

So upgrading from a 500watt to an 800watt rated 410 won't allow me to go louder?

Of course it will! If the limiting factor is the power handling of your cab, which seems to be the case, then a cab that will handle more power will obviously go louder. The question is, will it be loud enough? It might well be. An 800-watt amp into an 800-watt 4x10 is pretty loud.

[xgsjx]

It sounds like the BC410 might just not be a very efficient cab.  Not so much to do with the watts & more to do with the SPL?

22 minutes ago, stevie said:

Of course it will! If the limiting factor is the power handling of your cab, which seems to be the case, then a cab that will handle more power will obviously go louder. The question is, will it be loud enough? It might well be. An 800-watt amp into an 800-watt 4x10 is pretty loud.

But then I run a 200w amp onto a 800w 4x10 & that's pretty loud too.  

[stevie]

According to this: <https://www.talkbass.com/threads/fixed-tc-electronic-bc-cabinets.1058202/>,

the drivers are 75 watts power handling with 3mm xmax. So it's not surprising that the cab won't go very loud. Looks like TC Electronics are up to their tricks again.

[xgsjx]

They're not doing themselves any favours, are they.  

[stevie]

They are not. I don't suppose they expected anyone to email Eminence for the driver specs.

Still, at least the OP should have a better handle on what's happening. I'd say a good quality 4x10 would make a big difference - in 4 ohms if he is sure he only wants one cab.

[mcnach]

On 1/22/2018 at 19:05, Sammybass said:

Hello

After playing in a large venue (for us anyway) at the weekend, I've decided it's time to upgrade my TC Electronics BC410 to something with more headroom, to get the most 4 ohm juice out of my TC BH800 head.

Question is, do I go for two TC K-Series 2x10 or 2x12's (in series?) and stack them, or opt for something like the Markbass 104HF (4 ohm) rated at 800w.

My budget is around £750, and we play a mix of rock, pop and indie covers with my sound ranging from super clean to gritty to fuzz/synth octave silliness. I love the sound of 4x10's with a tweeter.

Any advice would be great!

 

My experience with the BC series of TC cabs is not great. The ones I tried did not sound bad, but they were not capable of making enough noise compared to pretty much anything else that looked similar.

Chances are that a different 410 would work much better... or, if budget allows, I'd rather go for a couple of 210s. A couple of good 210s stacked vertically allow you to get a better sound onstage without necessarily trying to be louder (partly because of having the speakers closer to your ears, and partly because of the dispersion in the midrange you get from a narrow tower like that). If you don't have PA support, it will still be pretty much as loud as the standard 410 configuration... BUt whatever you do, I think moving away from the BC 410 will be a necessity.

[stevie]

Agreed.