New Fender Rumble amps, modelling!

[gjones]

What happens when the electronics go on the blink, once the warranty is over? Or 5 years from now Fender no longer provide downloadable updates for these amps. The problem with the amp and guitar/bass business model is that amps and guitars have a very long lifespan. If you get a guitar or amp you like, you probably won't buy a new one for years/decades.. 

Successful manufacturers always make sure their products are obsolescent within a few years, so that people have to replace their phone, car,  computer, computer program, operating system at regular intervals.

Maybe Fender are getting in on the 'built in obsolescence' bandwagon, with these type of amps. How many of them will be out there and working properly in 5 or 10 years time?

[rushscored4]

2 hours ago, gjones said:

What happens when the electronics go on the blink, once the warranty is over? Or 5 years from now Fender no longer provide downloadable updates for these amps. The problem with the amp and guitar/bass business model is that amps and guitars have a very long lifespan. If you get a guitar or amp you like, you probably won't buy a new one for years/decades.. 

Successful manufacturers always make sure their products are obsolescent within a few years, so that people have to replace their phone, car,  computer, computer program, operating system at regular intervals.

Maybe Fender are getting in on the 'built in obsolescence' bandwagon, with these type of amps. How many of them will be out there and working properly in 5 or 10 years time?

The Rumble Stage 800 cost me £729. If it lasts a decade I'll be delighted as that's about 20p a day!

[rushscored4]

4 hours ago, rushscored4 said:

There's a lot more info on this amp on the Fender shop site:

Fender Rumble Stage 800

Slightly hi-jacking the thread, having bought one of these and knowing that the output is 400w with the two internal 10" speakers but up to 800w (hence the name) with an extension cab, any suggestions for a lightweight cab that might complement the 2 x 10s, look similar in black (so no Markbass or silver grill Rumble cabs for example), handle the extra 400w and have a similar footprint so I can stack the Stage 800 on top?

Here are the specifications:

Height:23.7” (60.2cm)

Width:19” (48.3 cm)

Depth:14” (35.56 cm)

Weight:39 lbs. (17.7kg)

I remembered I had an old TC Electronics 210 cab in the garage so I dusted it off and it has a remarkably similar footprint to the  Stage 800 so that'll do until I can source a second hand Barefaced cab to match or wait for the inevitable new Fender Rumble cabs to follow. Mind you I'm sure the combo with 400w on tap without a cab will be fine for most of the pubs and clubs we play.

[G-Dog]

There are several mentions of the V3 Rumbles here.  Are the Stage and Studio considered to be V4?

Edited March 10, 2018 by G-Dog

[discreet]

Can anyone tell me what's going on with the switching at the extension cab socket? I haven't got my glasses on.

 

[Highfox]

Looks like it's a 4/ 8 Ohm switch?

[Highfox]

I just gave my Rumble 500 and the extension cab a fairly loud try out with my (new) Wal and happy to say it's a good combo. Can't beat it with a P but the Wal works as well

[rushscored4]

1 hour ago, G-Dog said:

There are several mentions of the V3 Rumbles here.  Are the Stage and Studio considered to be V4?

I think the V3 series are still on sale so I'd see the Studio 40 and Stage 800 more as special editions.

[discreet]

8 minutes ago, rushscored4 said:

I think the V3 series are still on sale so I'd see the Studio 40 and Stage 800 more as special editions.

Agreed. There's that and the fact that Fender have at no time referred to them as V4.

[G-Dog]

4 hours ago, discreet said:

Can anyone tell me what's going on with the switching at the extension cab socket? I haven't got my glasses on.

 

Yes, it looks like a 8 ohm to 4 ohm Impedance switch, because it is labeled pertaining to external connection(s) only.  That is to simplify said external connections.   Default setting is 8 ohms.  Add one 8 ohm cab and leave the switch at 8 ohms.  Daisy-chain a second 8 ohm cab, making for 4 ohms, and flip the switch to 4 ohms.  Or you may connect a single 4 ohm cab at the 4 ohm setting.

However, as was discussed in the thread linked below, it's actually for switching from the usual 8/4 ohm auto-switching setting (like the 200 & 500 combos have) to the 2.67 ohm mode!  Because the 8 ohm internal speakers are always at least part of the load.  Leave the switch at 8 ohm with no extension cab(s).  Add one 8 ohm extension and leave the switch at 8 ohm (but total load is 4 ohms auto-switched).  Daisy-chain a second 8 ohm cab, making a 4 ohm external load, and flip the switch to 4 ohm (but the total load is really 2.67 ohms!).  The labeling is simplified to avoid this complicated truth.

Edited March 10, 2018 by G-Dog

[G-Dog]

From the Rumble Studio 40/Stage 800 manual:

N. EXTERNAL SPEAKER OUTPUT AND IMPEDANCE SWITCH (RUMBLE STAGE ONLY): Connect an external speaker cabinet here (8Ω or 4Ω minimum impedance); combination jack works with Speakon® or 1/4” speaker cable. Set switch to match impedance rating of external cabinet; continuous power rating of external cabinet must meet or exceed power rating listed for the chosen switch setting. Set switch to 8Ω when no external cabinet is connected.

 

Edited March 11, 2018 by G-Dog

[discreet]

Thanks for that. I find it a bit weird though. I can't imagine needing to use more than one 8 ohm extension cab at the very most, for a total load of 4ohms. 

I've never seen a combo with impedance switching before, nor yet have I ever met any bass combo users complaining that there is no such facility on their amps.

So why did Fender deem it necessary to go to the expense of fitting this switch? It seems like the solution to a problem that no-one is experiencing.

And does this mean you don't get the full 800w unless the amp is running at 2.67 ohms?

[G-Dog]

12 minutes ago, discreet said:

Thanks for that. I find it a bit weird though. I can't imagine needing to use more than one 8 ohm extension cab at the very most, for a total load of 4ohms. 

I've never seen a combo with impedance switching before, nor yet have I ever met any bass combo users complaining that there is no such facility on their amps.

So why did Fender deem it necessary to go to the expense of fitting this switch? It seems like the solution to a problem that no-one is experiencing.

And does this mean you don't get the full 800w unless the amp is running at 2.67 ohms?

"The Stage" will give it's full 800 watts with either 8 or 4 ohm extension(s).  But it could get somewhat more sound pressure level (SPL) with two 410s versus a single 210 extension. 

Sure, some will be perfectly fine with "just" 400 watts through the internal 210 and never need any extensions. Others will want to add a cab for whatever reason.  Still others will want to wring all they can out of it.  It is, after all, 800 watts!  "Crank it up, man!"

  Personally, I've only used my 115 cab a few times with my Rumble 500 combo.  Even then I didn't get to turn it up, at all.  But I did suspect that I might need the extension those times.  Someday I might!   :-)

[discreet]

1 hour ago, G-Dog said:

"The Stage" will give it's full 800 watts with either 8 or 4 ohm extension(s).  But it could get somewhat more sound pressure level (SPL) with two 410s versus a single 210 extension.

I'm sure it could, but if you're going down that road you may wonder why you chose a combo and not an Ampeg fridge. My feeling is that a combo should be judged on how it performs solely through its internal driver(s) and if you need to be regularly hauling extension cabs then you're defeating the main raison d'etre of a combo - ease of use - and should maybe consider a separate amp head and cab(s) for maximum flexibility.

Having said that, I suppose it could be useful  to turn up and plug in to a large backline cab (that you didn't have to carry) but that situation seems less likely than simply going FOH if it's a big room and using the combo for stage monitoring.

Which logically makes you wonder if very powerful combos are even necessary. And having said that... I still want one. 

Edited March 11, 2018 by discreet

[rushscored4]

I used my new Stage 800 live for the first time last night at a gig near Bolton and the whole band - even the drummer - complemented me on the sound. There are so many different settings and options but I found one that gave me the perfect right blend of vintage vibe I like with a bit of mid tone punch which is curiously called "young lust"! 

[rushscored4]

These are some of the available amp and cab models and other effects...

[discreet]

21 minutes ago, rushscored4 said:

I used my new Stage 800 live for the first time last night at a gig near Bolton and the whole band - even the drummer - complemented me on the sound. There are so many different settings and options but I found one that gave me the perfect right blend of vintage vibe I like with a bit of mid tone punch which is curiously called "young lust"! 

Oo-er, missus. I found that when I used a Zoom B1on as an always-on preamp, I gravitated towards one sound that I liked (consisting of a combination of amp sims, cab sims, SansAmp sim, compression and noise gate) and I used that for everything as it sounded truly great. Do you think the Stage will likely be used in the same way or will people bother to select and change sounds for different songs, or what?

If the former, it would seem a bit crazy to have all that capability, find one sound you like, then use that sound exclusively. When this happens with a £40 stomp box it's not an issue, but when you're obviously buying into the Fender modelling-amp thing..?

Edit: Re the modelling list, above: I can see myself using one or two of the amp and cab models, but as for Effects, Stompbox, Modulation, Reverb and Delay models? They would remain unused. Which begs the question, would it not be better (in my case) to go for a V3 Combo and (if necessary) use another B1on for anything else I wanted?

I really like the baked-in 'tone' of the V3 combos... to buy a Fender modelling combo then select the 'Fender V3 Combo' sim would seem a bit silly. But then if you want the convenience of a light(ish) combo but the sound of a (for example) Ampeg SVT, then I can see the attracton - IF the Ampeg SVT model is convincing enough for the job. I await sound clips with bated trousers...

Edited March 11, 2018 by discreet

[rushscored4]

8 minutes ago, discreet said:

Oo-er, missus. I found that when I used a Zoom B1on as an always-on preamp, I gravitated towards one sound that I liked (consisting of a combination of amp sims, cab sims, SansAmp sim, compression and noise gate) and I used that for everything as it sounded truly great. Do you think the Stage will likely be used in the same way or will people bother to select and change sounds for different songs, or what?

If the former, it would seem a bit crazy to have all that capability, find one sound you like, then use that sound exclusively. When this happens with a £40 stomp box it's not an issue, but when you're obviously buying into the Fender modelling-amp thing..?

I intend to use different sounds for different songs and you can create your own setlist (see graphic). Playing in a typical pub covers band we have to play a wide variety of songs from funk to punk so having that versatility will be invaluable. I just haven't had enough time and practice yet to tailor it to all my preferences so I picked a preset I liked that worked for most of the set then just used the tonal and pickup variations on my Sandberg for each song.

[discreet]

2 minutes ago, rushscored4 said:

I intend to use different sounds for different songs and you can create your own setlist (see graphic). Playing in a typical pub covers band we have to play a wide variety of songs from funk to punk so having that versatility will be invaluable.

I can see that might be useful. So does it depend on whether you're in a covers band or not? When I've been in covers bands I found a tone I liked and used it for everything, concentrating on getting the playing right... but I can see the attraction. How far down this road do you go, though? Will the guitarist, drummer and singer now be expected to somehow change and adapt what they're doing on a song-by-song basis? Would that even be desirable?

What's the logical development of this technology? A modelling desk and PA that automatically changes the band's individual sounds per a pre-programmed setlist to an approximation of the original song's instrument sounds and mixes? Would this be very far away from just playing the original recordings, jukebox-style?

If it happens everyone will need to be right on the money, as it would surely put everyone's playing under the microscope... 

 

[rushscored4]

5 minutes ago, discreet said:

I can see that might be useful. So does it depend on whether you're in a covers band or not? When I've been in covers bands I found a tone I liked and used it for everything, concentrating on getting the playing right... but I can see the attraction. How far down this road do you go, though? Will the guitarist, drummer and singer now be expected to somehow change and adapt what they're doing on a song-by-song basis? Would that even be desirable?

What's the logical development of this technology? A modelling desk and PA that automatically changes the band's individual sounds per a pre-programmed setlist to an approximation of the original song's instrument sounds and mixes? Would this be very far away from just playing the original recordings, jukebox-style?

If it happens everyone will need to be right on the money, as it would surely put everyone's playing under the microscope... 

 

Most of what we play is the same old 💩 so I'll use similar settings for a lot of the set but I'll vary the tones for different genres. At least it saves me having to keep changing instruments like the f***ing guitarists do every other song! 

[discreet]

2 minutes ago, rushscored4 said:

Most of what we play is the same old 💩 so I'll use similar settings for a lot of the set but I'll vary the tones for different genres. At least it saves me having to keep changing instruments like the f***ing guitarists do every other song! 

Yes, they are annoying... in fact it would be a good thing to have auto tone-changes for guitars, it might stop 'em from wasting time between songs.  We have a multi-instrumentalist (banjo, balalaika, mandolin, guitar, violin... etc) who understandably takes time to change instruments between songs. Rather that though, than she play some kind of mad synth guitar with a modelling amp... wouldn't really nail the alt-hipster vibe... 

[G-Dog]

3 hours ago, rushscored4 said:

I intend to use different sounds for different songs and you can create your own setlist (see graphic). Playing in a typical pub covers band we have to play a wide variety of songs from funk to punk so having that versatility will be invaluable. I just haven't had enough time and practice yet to tailor it to all my preferences so I picked a preset I liked that worked for most of the set then just used the tonal and pickup variations on my Sandberg for each song.

Everything I read says the 4-button footswitch is included with "The Stage".  That should help you work through your setlist, right?

I have a 4-button footswitch I use with my Fender B-DEC 30 bass amp to speed change between different model sounds at some gigs.  It's been a great little workhorse for over a decade now!  Can't wait for "that gig" where I need to put the B-DEC's line out into my Rumble 500!!  (My poor man's Stage wannabe.  )

[rushscored4]

45 minutes ago, G-Dog said:

Everything I read says the 4-button footswitch is included with "The Stage".  That should help you work through your setlist, right?

I have a 4-button footswitch I use with my Fender B-DEC 30 bass amp to speed change between different model sounds at some gigs.  It's been a great little workhorse for over a decade now!  Can't wait for "that gig" where I need to put the B-DEC's line out into my Rumble 500!!  (My poor man's Stage wannabe.  )

Yep the Fender MGT-4 footswitch comes with the Stage 800 and is an optional extra for the Studio 40. I'm still working my way through that one too... 

[G-Dog]

On 3/11/2018 at 08:11, rushscored4 said:

Most of what we play is the same old 💩 so I'll use similar settings for a lot of the set but I'll vary the tones for different genres. At least it saves me having to keep changing instruments like the f***ing guitarists do every other song! 

 

hey, @rushscored4, have you used the Bluetooth to practice or rehearse?  If so, does it work well?

 

[rushscored4]

21 minutes ago, G-Dog said:

 

hey, @rushscored4, have you used the Bluetooth to practice or rehearse?  If so, does it work well?

 

Yes I use it all the time to practice at home and it works great especially with my Skull Candy Crusher wireless headphones which have a bass boost slider. I even put some Spotify tunes on the amp via Bluetooth in between our two sets last Saturday!