High Pass Filters

[Bigwan]

9 minutes ago, PaulWarning said:

didn't know that, where is it and is it on the B1on, sorry if I've missed something

Yes. It's the depth parameter of the Ac Bs Pre effect. Between "bass pre" and "SVT" if the effects appear in the same order as the MS-60B manual.

EDIT: seems to be in same place in B1on manual so if they're in the same order on the pedal that'll be where you'll find it.

Edited February 1, 2018 by Bigwan

[Al Krow]

54 minutes ago, Jus Lukin said:

Not really! If the available frequency points work for you and you're looking for the steepest rolloff, then the more the merrier! So long as it doesn't introduce anything odd sounding, but technically if you're cutting inaudible, or at least extremely quiet content, then it should be fine with a sharp slope. I don't know about the digital realm, but I think that in hardware, progressive orders of filter are created by stacking simpler filters anyway, so it's the way it's done get get steeper slopes.

Stuff it, I'm going to do all four slots in a bit, just to see how it goes! It'll be -48db/oct, although judging by Bartelby's generously donated graph, that could be beginning to roll off as high as 60hz. It's worth a try though, and once I'm set up to test the pedal with some noise I'll get right in there- the -48db should make for some pretty clear results!

Lol! Love it - so what we going to call this awesome -48dB HPF MS-60B patch? Maybe the 'Krow inspired Lukin Low-Hz effects reduction' HPF? aka KILLER HPF ?! 

[Jus Lukin]

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Edited February 25, 2022 by Jus Lukin

[Al Krow]

10 minutes ago, Jus Lukin said:

Oh, you got it in one! 

I'm playing through the KILLER as we speak! With everything flat, gains at 50 and levels at 100 (OK, I knocked one gain down to 45 to maintain unity) and the depths all at 9, it is just cutting into the audible range, but very useably so. Even having nerded up over listening for this stuff for ages there's an odd effect- I know I'm hearing a touch less of the really deep stuff, but the bottom actually seems enhanced a little. One of the bits of magic found in the mysterious realms of comps and HPFs, where taking away can appear to add things!

This is about as unscientific as you can get, as I'm sat here in the living room playing through a Markbass 1x12, learning a handful of songs and playing in a fresh set of strings, but at this point I can say that there are no weird artifacts showing up from stacking four of 'em!

Perfect. Look forward to setting up the same patch on the MS-60B and trying it out myself over the weekend! Happy to go halves on royalties btw

What amp head are you using with your Markbass 1x12, an LM3? If so, that's pretty identical to my Markbass rig.

If so, can I suggest that instead of cutting the bass EQ on the Markbass (which many of us seem to do, to deal with its boominess) you turn the Bass EQ UP a touch to boost the audible lows whilst applying the KILLER patch to get rid of the sub-audio. Let me know what you think?

Edited February 1, 2018 by Al Krow

[Al Krow]

@Jus Lukin PS just to check you're using the the 'BA PEQ' (dual band para EQ) x 4 for the KILLER HPF and not the 'AC Bs Pre' effect, right (as both of these are floating around as possible options)?

[Jus Lukin]

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Edited February 25, 2022 by Jus Lukin

[Al Krow]

23 minutes ago, Jus Lukin said:

It's the Ac Bs Pre, basically engaging nothing but the filter x4.

Boosting the lows on the amp (LMII) really emphasises that seemingly enhanced low end- switching between the filter patch and an empty one with a hefty bass boost at the amp, the filtered signal actually sounds deeper than the untouched one, weirdly.

Cheers for clarifying that - I would have been setting up the wrong patch!

So boosting the lows + KILLER patch --> sounds 'deeper'. Does 'deeper' = 'better' in your books? If so, that sound kinda exactly what I had in mind in terms of eliminating the sub audio to allow more space for the audible bass to come through.

Edited February 1, 2018 by Al Krow

[Al Krow]

Slightly off at a tangent, but related Q - if you're looking to adjust EQ points on an amp what are you looking for in terms of really effective EQ points?

The Markbass LM3 has the following centre frequencies: LOW: 40 Hz; LOW MID: 360 Hz, HIGH MID: 800 Hz, HIGH: 10 kHz

The view has been expressed that the LOW centre is too low and the HIGH too high to be usable and that is one of the key issues with MarkBass's otherwise excellent amps.

Ideally where should these LOW and HIGH EQ points be centred to be more usable?

[Jus Lukin]

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Edited February 25, 2022 by Jus Lukin

[krispn]

What he said. Parametric eq is a nightmare for the knob twiddler but if you know what you’re doing then it’s can provide a quick and easy fix and sort out a dodgy bit of feedback or rumble. It’s like tuning in a radio then cutting or boosting to fix the issue. 

[Al Krow]

Parametric EQ - This one: best combination of price, function and compactness in the market today? Nothing better out there, right?

https://reverb.com/item/4271203-wmd-utility-parametric-eq-equalizer

...now I'm off to work out how to set up a KILLER patch on my MS-60B (for free and no additional space on my pedal board).  

Edited February 1, 2018 by Al Krow

[PaulWarning]

2 hours ago, Bigwan said:

Yes. It's the depth parameter of the Ac Bs Pre effect. Between "bass pre" and "SVT" if the effects appear in the same order as the MS-60B manual.

EDIT: seems to be in same place in B1on manual so if they're in the same order on the pedal that'll be where you'll find it.

forgive me for asking, how do you know the depth parameter is a HPF, once again sorry if there's already been a reason given, just can't find it

[Jus Lukin]

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Edited February 25, 2022 by Jus Lukin

[Jus Lukin]

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Edited February 25, 2022 by Jus Lukin

[PaulWarning]

4 minutes ago, Jus Lukin said:

Using it filters out the lows! 

But seriously, the Ac Bs Pre is a model of the Fishman Platinum Pro, the depth being an HPF. The names of the controls are actually slightly different, but the details of the depth control will be in the manual for the Fishman. I'd link to it, but I'm typng on my phone!

https://www.fishman.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Platinum-Pro-EQ-User-Guide.pdf

Low Cut: a variable high-pass filter, labeled low cut, 

I assume that means depth of cut and the not frequency it cuts from, in which case I wonder what that is

Edited February 1, 2018 by PaulWarning

[Jus Lukin]

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Edited February 25, 2022 by Jus Lukin

[jrixn1]

According to this chap:

https://www.talkbass.com/threads/zoom-ms60-b3-para-eq-help.999053/page-2#post-15143265

the 'depth' frequencies on the Ac Bs Pre are:

Quote

The Depth rolls off the lows :
- at 10 -> no roll off (full bass)
- at 0 -> like an HPF fixed at 200Hz
and inbetween :
- at 5 : 100Hz
- at 6 : 80Hz
- at 7 : 70Hz
- at 8 : 60Hz
- at 9 : 40Hz
(I made very quick measurements, so it's "almost" these frequencies).

 

[CameronJ]

6 hours ago, Al Krow said:

Cam, buddy, you'll need to catch up with the thread!   It's a feature on all my rigs; the Markbass is just to confirm what was going on with the other rigs.

I was far too lazy to read the full thread 

[Lozz196]

Havin read on this thread that the Rumble feature on the Tech 21 Para Driver v2 is a high pass filter I thought I`d give it a try this eve, and am pretty pleased with the result, albeit through my practice amp at home volumes. Engaged I have to push the bass on the PD a lot more, in fact to full on, plus back off on both the highs and mids a bit, add a bit more gain, and reduce the blend to 80% instead of full on in order to get the same sound as before.

So why do it then - well the sound is the same but seems more focused, and, being a heavy hitter the sound could boom a bit at times whereas now it doesn`t so I`m getting a more controlled version of my sound. I suppose it`s a bit like finally finding the compressor that actually does what I want it to really, keeping me as me, but also reigning me in a bit. I`ll update as to whether it works in the band or not next week, but am feeling pretty chuffed at the moment.

[pete.young]

On 1/31/2018 at 14:54, Bigwan said:

MS60B has the AC BS PRE according to the effect list on their website. If the effects blocks in the effect list are the same as on the pedal it should be between "bass pre" and "SVT".

Yes it does, and so does the B1On and the B1XOn.

 

Edit: Apologies Bigwan, I'm not sure what happened there, but it was meant to be a reply to an earlier posting of Al Krow's.

Edited February 1, 2018 by pete.young

[Bigwan]

This thread has turned into a big ball of confusion... 

[Al Krow]

9 hours ago, Bigwan said:

This thread has turned into a big ball of confusion... 

....I guess that happens when they're are several conversations going on and a thread becomes 'hot'. But nonetheless very informative to those of us who are not expert in HPFs!

And I must say I much prefer a babble of discussion to an orderly clinical Vorlon thread with just 4 responses, right?  

Edited February 2, 2018 by Al Krow

[Al Krow]

11 hours ago, Jus Lukin said:

Bartelby's graph gives a good idea of how it works, but they are best viewed as a set 'slope' or cut (-12db/oct in this case), and the frequency is variable. Quite how the frequency is named can get a bit confusing- as you can see on the graph it's not a sharp knee, but I think manual states that for the Fishman, the filter will be cutting below 10hz, and fully deployed cuts below 200hz. The Zoom, having stepped increments works a bit differently, but wil be very similar. As I said, once my recording gear is plumbed back in I'll have a proper nerd session to get to know the exact cutoffs etc!

I'm off to a gig now, but I'll check back in the morning!

 Hope the gig went well! I'm sure I'm missing a trick here, but on the AcBs Pre given that you can set Lower Mid F at 32.5Hz and then dial this down to -10; would there be no advantage in doing that [as well as setting the the depth to 9]?

Edited February 2, 2018 by Al Krow

[pete.young]

Apologies once more to Bigwan.

I'd also say that, if people seriously want to understand what the Fishman clone in the MS-60B does, the right way to go about it is to go read the documentation for the Fishman preamp, which someone was considerate enough to post earlier in the thread. And which also explains how to get the best out of the low cut (or depth) control.

[Al Krow]

8 hours ago, pete.young said:

I'd also say that, if people seriously want to understand what the Fishman clone in the MS-60B does, the right way to go about it is to go read the documentation for the Fishman preamp, which someone was considerate enough to post earlier in the thread. And which also explains how to get the best out of the low cut (or depth) control.

You would have hoped it would be sufficient to read the MS-60B manual on what the AC Bs Pre does (on page 8 of the manual attached)? It's a big ask 99.999% owners of the Zoom MS-60B (who haven't been on this confusing / extremely helpful thread) to work out that AC Bs Pre is a Fishman Clone and then to have to go separately hunting for details on that!  

Gear - MS-60B Effects.pdf