High Pass Filters

[Baloney Balderdash]

41 minutes ago, Stub Mandrel said:

 

I think that what I put, just from the opposite perspective  😁

  

 

Well, that was my whole point with that reply, it was a response to your comment, hence why I quoted it.

 

The first part of the sentence being: Sure (meaning yes), if... [as you said + elaborating]

 

The second part of the sentence being: But if (my perspective)... [elaborating] + then: [my point]

 

Just elaborating on what you said, really, as in explaining why you would set the HPF one or the other way, which you didn't really, and then presenting the opposite perspective as well.

 

Edited September 8, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash

[BassAdder60]

The Genzler 4 on the floor has fantastic HPF and LPF on the drive 

 

Really makes a difference to the tone and I can see how useful they are 

 

[Al Krow]

3 hours ago, BassAdder60 said:

The Genzler 4 on the floor has fantastic HPF and LPF on the drive 

 

Really makes a difference to the tone and I can see how useful they are 

 

Yeah the HPF on that seems to be quite neat! From what I've understood it basically allows you to decide the cut-off for frequencies you want distorted and therefore lets you preserve a solid clean low end to underpin the overall sound.

 

I'd personally prefer something a bit more gnarly for the drive itself, otherwise it would be a tempting, if £spendy, pedal. 

 

I guess you could recreate what the Genzler is doing with separate pedals eg an hpf and a dirt pedal in the loop of a Boss LS2 or even more easily with parallel chains on offer with some multifx (eg Helix / Boss GT). 

 

Edited September 8, 2023 by Al Krow

[SuperSeagull]

I have mine after my sansamp then I can give FOH a signal without HPF for them to do as they wish with and I have the benefit of the filter via my on stage amp.

[Downunderwonder]

On 09/09/2023 at 05:46, Al Krow said:

I guess you could recreate what the Genzler is doing with separate pedals eg an hpf and a dirt pedal in the loop of a Boss LS2 or even more easily with parallel chains on offer with some multifx (eg Helix / Boss GT). 

Most dirt pedals invert the phase on the return. This puts your blend into cancellation at the crossover frequency and the remaining lows, as the LS2 has no phase switch.

[peteb]

I'm thinking of adding a HPF to my set-up to free up some headroom on my amp and control a bit of the boom you occasionally get in some venues. I assume that a LPF would help with that? If I get one, should I put it before or after the compressor. 

 

I'm afraid that  haven't waded through all 19 pages of this thread, but has anybody used a Sine Effect H24 HPF pedal and is it any good? Or would I be better looking for a micro-thumpinator second hand? 

 

Edited October 25, 2023 by peteb

[ped]

14 minutes ago, peteb said:

I'm thinking of adding a LPF to my set-up to free up some headroom on my amp and control a bit of the boom you occasionally get in some venues. I assume that a LPF would help with that? If I get one, should I put it before or after the compressor. 

 

I'm afraid that  haven't waded through all 19 pages of this thread, but has anybody used a Sine Effect H24 HPF pedal and is it any good? Or would I be better looking for a micro-thumpinator second hand? 

 

I chose to go after my compressor and DI. The way I see it, my comp is designed to see the full signal and I like how it responds, and I want to send a full signal to desk where it can be filtered by someone else if necessary. The HPF is for my monitoring only. 

[peteb]

2 hours ago, ped said:

I chose to go after my compressor and DI. The way I see it, my comp is designed to see the full signal and I like how it responds, and I want to send a full signal to desk where it can be filtered by someone else if necessary. The HPF is for my monitoring only. 

 

That makes sense about putting the HPF after the compressor. With my rig, it would have to go before the DI, which is OK with me. You seem to have more faith in the guy doing HOF than I often have! I like as much control with what goes to the desk as possible, as you never know if the engineer is any good or not...! 

 

[ped]

5 minutes ago, peteb said:

 

That makes sense about putting the HPF after the compressor. With my rig, it would have to go before the DI, which is OK with me. You seem to have more faith in the guy doing HOF than I often have! I like as much control with what goes to the desk as possible, as you never know if the engineer is any good or not...! 

 

 

Yeah very true - I sort of reasoned that if I feed the engineer anything even remotely unusual then they're likely to make (bad) adjustments to compensate. If they can't get a nice mix without me using a HPF then they probably can't if I do! 

[Downunderwonder]

3 hours ago, peteb said:

LPF to my set-up to free up some headroom

You meant HPF I think as you used the correct term later.

 

My HPF was set at around 70hz on a recent gig. Sound monkey must have boosted the bejesus out of it to get his subs pumping some obnoxious sub bass. I wound up turning him off as the stage amp was plenty big enough for my little band in his little bar of a Sunday afternoon.

[peteb]

3 minutes ago, Downunderwonder said:

You meant HPF I think as you used the correct term later.

 

 

Yes, I did mean HPF (now amended) 

 

Edited October 25, 2023 by peteb

[tauzero]

14 hours ago, ped said:

I chose to go after my compressor and DI. The way I see it, my comp is designed to see the full signal and I like how it responds, and I want to send a full signal to desk where it can be filtered by someone else if necessary. The HPF is for my monitoring only. 

 

I've chosen to put the HPF first, before the compressor. I don't want the compressor to be operating on inaudible frequencies as that will mess up what it's doing to the audible ones.

[ped]

26 minutes ago, tauzero said:

 

I've chosen to put the HPF first, before the compressor. I don't want the compressor to be operating on inaudible frequencies as that will mess up what it's doing to the audible ones.

 

All cool - I might have changed mine if I felt like my comp wasn't working well beforehand, but does a great job (I use it more as a limiter) so saw no need to change.

[Chienmortbb]

52 minutes ago, ped said:

 

All cool - I might have changed mine if I felt like my comp wasn't working well beforehand, but does a great job (I use it more as a limiter) so saw no need to change.

It's all science and engineering until you start playing and using the stuff, then it's art. Unless you play like me, then is various noises. If it works for you, it is right.

[Franticsmurf]

16 hours ago, peteb said:

I'm thinking of adding a HPF to my set-up to free up some headroom on my amp and control a bit of the boom you occasionally get in some venues. I assume that a LPF would help with that? If I get one, should I put it before or after the compressor. 

 

I'm afraid that  haven't waded through all 19 pages of this thread, but has anybody used a Sine Effect H24 HPF pedal and is it any good? Or would I be better looking for a micro-thumpinator second hand? 

 

There's another HPF thread here. (I've partly quoted my response from there).

 

I've recently added the Sine H24 to my board, at the end of the line. I can't compare it with any other HPF.

 

We have a regular sound guy and he was showing me the EQ he uses for my bass in the FOH sound. It had a cut at 35hz and since I like the sound he gets, I thought I'd invest. 

 

I tried the Sine at rehearsals, going in to a TCE BAM200 and a 1x15" bass cab. The Sine was set to cut 30hz (the lowest setting). I could definitely hear a difference with it engaged. Very subtle but it tightened the sound up.  We record all our rehearsals (just in case we want to release a 'Lost Tapes' retrospective 😂). The recording had a more defined bass guitar sound (all other factors - mic position, recording levels etc - being equal). The master volume on the amp was slightly lower than usual. A non-scientific review, I know, but enough for me to be placing this as a permanent 'always on' pedal on the board. 

[Baloney Balderdash]

48 minutes ago, Franticsmurf said:

There's another HPF thread here. (I've partly quoted my response from there).

 

I've recently added the Sine H24 to my board, at the end of the line. I can't compare it with any other HPF.

 

We have a regular sound guy and he was showing me the EQ he uses for my bass in the FOH sound. It had a cut at 35hz and since I like the sound he gets, I thought I'd invest. 

 

I tried the Sine at rehearsals, going in to a TCE BAM200 and a 1x15" bass cab. The Sine was set to cut 30hz (the lowest setting). I could definitely hear a difference with it engaged. Very subtle but it tightened the sound up.  We record all our rehearsals (just in case we want to release a 'Lost Tapes' retrospective 😂). The recording had a more defined bass guitar sound (all other factors - mic position, recording levels etc - being equal). The master volume on the amp was slightly lower than usual. A non-scientific review, I know, but enough for me to be placing this as a permanent 'always on' pedal on the board. 

Well, it might be unscientific, but it pretty much matches the general experience and consensus about the advantages of using a HPF: Tighter low end and therefor improved overall definition and general tightness of the tone, and increasing amp and speaker effectiveness, since they don't have to deal with processing/reproducing excessive low end/sub frequencies, which also to some extend adds further to the first mentioned immediate effect.     

 

But yes, it is a somewhat subtle effect, though I'd say at the same time making a quite significant difference.

 

Edited October 26, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash

[Franticsmurf]

2 hours ago, Baloney Balderdash said:

But yes, it is a somewhat subtle effect, though I'd say at the same time making a quite significant difference.

I would imagine the difference would become more apparent at gig volumes. Probably more noticeable in the overall sound as well, as there should be space around the bass drum and, if my understanding is correct, more headroom in the PA amp which is no longer trying to cope with inaudible bass frequencies.

 

[Stub Mandrel]

I've realised one very useful place for an HPF ... after an octaver that's being 'fed' by a five-string tuned to low B. I really don't want 16Hz going into my amp.

[JPJ]

If anybody is interested there’s a great video showing speaker cone extension without, and then with a Microthumpinator HPF. This visually demonstrates the “subtle effect”

 

SFXSound Microthumpinator

[Baloney Balderdash]

8 hours ago, JPJ said:

If anybody is interested there’s a great video showing speaker cone extension without, and then with a Microthumpinator HPF. This visually demonstrates the “subtle effect”

 

SFXSound Microthumpinator

Wouh, that's pretty insane.

 

Wish I had known this many years back when I played bass in a rock band using my 60W Ampeg B-15S, which sounded amazing and was just exactly as loud as I needed and wanted it to be, but unfortunately sometimes would fart out when pushed like that to near the edge of its maximum capacity. 

 

Also when I was calling it a "somewhat subtle effect" I naturally meant "somewhat subtle audible effect", I also pointed out that it regardless was still "making a quite significant difference".

 

Edited October 27, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash

[Stub Mandrel]

10 hours ago, JPJ said:

If anybody is interested there’s a great video showing speaker cone extension without, and then with a Microthumpinator HPF. This visually demonstrates the “subtle effect”

 

SFXSound Microthumpinator

 

Not also that:

 

Cut-off frequency: ~25Hz

Slope: 36 dB/oct

 

So below the 27.5Hz of a low A on a detuned 6 string.

[Lfalex v1.1]

I was questioning what the idea was in having such a low roll-off point (25Hz), unless it were in a studio application, to clean up the entire low end below the point of  the A0 fundamental.

 

And here (I think) is the point. For all that amps may be bandwidth limited by design,  and cabinets by design and physics, 

bass guitars aren't bandwidth limited, and can certainly generate a signal of as low a frequency as you'd care to detune to.

 

So it feels like the Thumpinator almost ought to go at the beginning of the signal chain; to clean up all the infrasonic gubbins before it reaches your FX and amp.

 

 

 

[Baloney Balderdash]

2 hours ago, Stub Mandrel said:

 

Not also that:

 

Cut-off frequency: ~25Hz

Slope: 36 dB/oct

 

So below the 27.5Hz of a low A on a detuned 6 string.

Well, except for the 25Hz being the -3dB point of the slope, so there will most definite be a couple of dB reduction of 27.5Hz as well, and the low B for that matter at 30.87Hz slightly reduced too.

 

I realize this is nit picking, and for most parts irrelevant as any real life cab actually used is unlikely to be able to reproduce 27.5Hz, or 30.87Hz for that matter, anyway (it will however, as we can see in that video, still cause the speaker cones to flap, just not producing much of an actually audible tone), and what is actually mostly heard will the the second harmonic, an octave above, and our brain filling in the blanks (as with a large part of our perception of reality in general really).

 

Just saying for the sake of being factual correct.

 

Edited October 27, 2023 by Baloney Balderdash

[JPJ]

4 hours ago, Baloney Balderdash said:

 

 

Also when I was calling it a "somewhat subtle effect" I naturally meant "somewhat subtle audible effect", I also pointed out that it regardless was still "making a quite significant difference".

 

Apologies, I've just reread my post from last night - I didn't mean to sound arsey 🤦‍♂️

[JPJ]

41 minutes ago, Lfalex v1.1 said:

 

So it feels like the Thumpinator almost ought to go at the beginning of the signal chain; to clean up all the infrasonic gubbins before it reaches your FX and amp.

 

 

 

I have mine at the end (last before the amp) to catch any damaging frequencies created by the Sub'n'up patch in the Plethora X3. It works for me, and I take the PA feed from my preamp pedal earlier in the chain so the PA gets everything.