funkydoug Posted February 2, 2018 Author Share Posted February 2, 2018 Maybe relevant to others reading this, the Zoom B3n does have an adjustable HPF, in the Low-Eq module. It is adjustable HPF from 20hz to 640hz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigwan Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 (edited) Sorry guys, that came off as a really sarcey comment. Not intended that way - I was finding it hard to keep up! Edited February 2, 2018 by Bigwan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulWarning Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 13 hours ago, jrixn1 said: According to this chap: https://www.talkbass.com/threads/zoom-ms60-b3-para-eq-help.999053/page-2#post-15143265 the 'depth' frequencies on the Ac Bs Pre are: cheers, good find, that's really useful Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulWarning Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 (edited) anybody know how you hide/delete duplicate posts? Edited February 2, 2018 by PaulWarning Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Krow Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 (edited) Ok I've now checked out the various options and for my particular circumstances (hot Yammy pups and rattling cabs / sympathetic surrounding vibration) conclusions as follows: 1. Best results are from either the Zoom B3n / MS-60B GEQs with a full cut at 50Hz or simply dialling back the bass EQ on the amp which does pretty much the same thing (bass EQs on my amps are centred: Mesa M6 at 55 Hz and cuts from there tapering down to 20 Hz; Markbass LM3 (equivalent) at 40 Hz; and the DG M900 at a relatively high 80 Hz); 2. Didn't find that the Ac Bs Pre (on depth 9) or the Para EQ effects on the MS-60B did much at all for me. I've not gone as far as setting up a 'KILLER' patch (= 4 x Ac Bs Pre) given the basic single patch was relatively ineffective; 3. Lowering the height of the pups across the board just makes the bass relatively quiet compared to the rest of my stable; although a very slight lowering of the single coil on the B/E string side seems a very good compromise: So having been round the houses, it seems like dialling the bass EQ back a touch (combined with a slight lowering of the split coil P pup) when I'm playing my Yammy bass is going to be the simple / obvious solution for me. Back to HPFs... [updated] Edited February 2, 2018 by Al Krow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Krow Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 @bartelby Just to round off the above discussion: been quite a lot of excitement about the AcBs Pre effect - I think this on the B3 as well as the MS-60B. Could we get you to do one of your clever charts, please, showing what this is doing [with everything flat and depth set at 9 (i.e. roll off at 40 Hz)]? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigwan Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 (edited) 10 minutes ago, Al Krow said: @bartelby Just to round off the above discussion: been quite a lot of excitement about the AcBs Pre effect - I think this on the B3 as well as the MS-60B. Could we get you to do one of your clever charts, please, showing what this is doing [with everything flat and depth set at 9 (i.e. roll off at 40 Hz)]? Isn't that what the graph on page 4 shows? Edited February 2, 2018 by Bigwan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jus Lukin Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 (edited) - Edited March 1, 2022 by Jus Lukin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jus Lukin Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 (edited) - Edited February 25, 2022 by Jus Lukin 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigwan Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 (edited) 16 minutes ago, Jus Lukin said: So why on God's green Earth didn't they include that on the MS-60b update, instead of one of the half billion reverbs?! I know which I'd rather have access to! The MS60b and B3n are different generations of product. By that I mean the B3, MS60B and B1on (and all the guitar equivalents) all use the same hardware/processor. The B3n is a newer design, new models, new everything really. It'd be like trying to run Windows 10 on an old 386. Wouldn't work. Edited February 2, 2018 by Bigwan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannybuoy Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 Great thread! Find a problem, try to throw money / gadgets at it before realising the simple solution! "My new bass is too bassy!" "What new pedal shall I buy to fix this?" "Lets come up with an uber patch that uses an LPF and multiple parametric EQs!" "Hmm, I'll just turn down the bass on my amp." 1 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartelby Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 2 hours ago, Al Krow said: @bartelby Just to round off the above discussion: been quite a lot of excitement about the AcBs Pre effect - I think this on the B3 as well as the MS-60B. Could we get you to do one of your clever charts, please, showing what this is doing [with everything flat and depth set at 9 (i.e. roll off at 40 Hz)]? 2 hours ago, Bigwan said: Isn't that what the graph on page 4 shows? Yep. The 3rd line down (the one that hits 15dB in the scale) is Depth at 9 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Krow Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 1 hour ago, dannybuoy said: Great thread! Find a problem, try to throw money / gadgets at it before realising the simple solution! "My new bass is too bassy!" "What new pedal shall I buy to fix this?" "Lets come up with an uber patch that uses an LPF and multiple parametric EQs!" "Hmm, I'll just turn down the bass on my amp." Lol! But along the way I've certainly learned a load about practical EQing (nothing like a real live case study to apply things to is there?)...AND if the HPF works (I haven't tried a dedicated one yet for these particular circs - I may see if I can borrow krispn's Broughton LPF/HPF a second time) it could still provide the better solution (by allowing the audible bass not to have to be turned down). Turning the bass down simply happens to be the best of the 'free' options I have to hand! And Dannybuoy, dear chap, if anyone has been guilty of a buying the odd pedal from time to time, well I might just point the finger at both of you and Cameron. I hope you're not going to begrudge us relative pedal newbies the same opportunities to have some pedal fun? 4 hours ago, funkydoug said: Maybe relevant to others reading this, the Zoom B3n does have an adjustable HPF, in the Low-Eq module. It is adjustable HPF from 20hz to 640hz. Whereabouts does the adjustable HPF sit on the B3n; my B3n manual doesn't seem to make any reference to a 'Low-Eq module'? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funkydoug Posted February 2, 2018 Author Share Posted February 2, 2018 https://www.zoom.co.jp/sites/default/files/products/downloads/pdfs/E_B3n_FX-list_0.pdf page 5. It has a blue star ... does that mean it comes with firmware update??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigwan Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 13 minutes ago, funkydoug said: https://www.zoom.co.jp/sites/default/files/products/downloads/pdfs/E_B3n_FX-list_0.pdf page 5. It has a blue star ... does that mean it comes with firmware update??? That's what a blue star means in the MS60B download, so probably means the same here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pete.young Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 6 hours ago, Al Krow said: You would have hoped it would be sufficient to read the MS-60B manual on what the AC Bs Pre does (on page 8 of the manual attached)? It's a big ask 99.999% owners of the Zoom MS-60B (who haven't been on this confusing / extremely helpful thread) to work out that AC Bs Pre is a Fishman Clone and then to have to go separately hunting for details on that! Gear - MSe-60B Effects.pdf Yes, you might expect that. The manual is one area where Zoom have kept the costs down. In general I've found that if you can identify what the pedal is supposed to be a clone of, you get more information from the original manual. The fishman is a good example of this - there's some info about adjusting Depth in conjunction with the Bass EQ on the pedal, but I wasn't paying enough attention to it to remember the detail! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Krow Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 I reckon this thread is going to be boosting sales of HPFs (and MS-60Bs!); that is of course for any folk who, like me, find turning the bass EQ on their amp down too much of an ask Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulWarning Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 25 minutes ago, Al Krow said: I reckon this thread is going to be boosting sales of HPFs (and MS-60Bs!); that is of course for any folk who, like me, find turning the bass EQ on their amp down too much of an ask cheapest option is the B1on Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Krow Posted February 2, 2018 Share Posted February 2, 2018 Here's the Dood's excellent review of the (it's big brother) B1Xon. (Well done @dood btw - I hope GAK are paying you royalties?) Takes up too much real estate on my little pedal board (MS-60B wins hands down for compactness) and I do prefer the user friendly interface on the B3n over this; but you're right the B1on is cheap and does do a lot. The first comment in the YouTube comments section made me laugh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chienmortbb Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 (edited) I have not read the whole thread but there is both a lot of good and bad info on this thread so I will put in my 2p. For the record I am an Electronics Engineer and advised on the design of the HPF on passinwind's HPF design. However that was all his work and I take no credit for it. So what is an HPF? High Pass Filter or less commonly called a Low Cut Filter. So why do we need one? Bass guitars and DBs and the whole system between them, and the Loudspeaker, produce very low frequencies that do not add to our sound. These VLFs work the speaker hard and rob us of headroom. How do I know if this is happening to my system? If you can see the speaker moving, that is caused by VLFs. Take you grille off and watch the cones while playing. Your eyes will not see a cone vibrating at 25Hz* so if you can see it move, it is below 25 Hz and well below Low B at 31Hz. Watch the video of the Micro Thumpinator in action on the SFX site to see the effect.Microthumpinator web page My amp has an HPF do I need an external one? It depends, some built in ones are too shallow. 12 dB per octave is too shallow, 24dB is the minimum in my opinion. That rules out the Broughton. It would be better than nothing but imho not much. What if I just turn down the bass? Most bass controls will affect frequencies in the low mids and higher and have a big impact on your tone. Do I need a variable or adjustable HPF? If it works it does not matter. The Thumpinator works well and also the various FDeck versions from the USA, are good. Variable Filters have a bump at the f3 point. No a good design will be flat to all intents and purposes. If a fixed HPF works well, what benefit would a variable HPF bring. Mainly to help tame room resonances/boominess in conjunction with the normal EQ. It can also allow you to experiment for yourself, a variable HPF can start the cut-off higher for a 4 string than a 5 string. Alternatively it allows you to tune the response so as to just remove the unwanted VLF stuff leaving more of you tone intact. Edited February 3, 2018 by Chienmortbb 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Krow Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 @Chienmortbb - really good, clear note thanks. If the Broughton is not going to cut it as an HPF, then there is certainly a gap in the market for a combined HPF / LPF pedal that can deliver a -24dB (or better) at each of the relevant ranges. Interesting how very quickly any Mircro Thumpinators coming up for sale, are being snapped following the discussion on this thread. If any of you guys who are into pedal design and build can come up with something that is as well designed as the Broughton HPF/LPF, but delivers a bigger punch, I suspect you will have a very successful product - count me in if you do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimBobTTD Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 On 02/02/2018 at 16:58, Al Krow said: I reckon this thread is going to be boosting sales of HPFs (and MS-60Bs!); that is of course for any folk who, like me, find turning the bass EQ on their amp down too much of an ask Hmm. I have only just seen this thread...my wanted post was totally independent of this discussion. Typical, really...now the demand will be higher and the prices, too! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrumpymike Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 4 hours ago, JimBobTTD said: Hmm. I have only just seen this thread...my wanted post was totally independent of this discussion. Typical, really...now the demand will be higher and the prices, too! And fewer people wanting to sell I'd imagine - bummer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Opticaleye Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 The Lo Eq effect set to HPF works great on the B3n. I've used this and the AcBsPre depth control on the MS60B and the B3 in the past as well as the real Depth control on the Fishman Platinum. Mostly though I use the Quilter BB800 which has a fixed Thumpinator style HPF built in and a variable slope at 100hz (-24db) on the Quilter's Depth control. Works well with my TKS 1126 FRFR cabs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigwan Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 18 hours ago, Al Krow said: @Chienmortbb - really good, clear note thanks. If the Broughton is not going to cut it as an HPF, then there is certainly a gap in the market for a combined HPF / LPF pedal that can deliver a -24dB (or better) at each of the relevant ranges. Interesting how very quickly any Mircro Thumpinators coming up for sale, are being snapped following the discussion on this thread. If any of you guys who are into pedal design and build can come up with something that is as well designed as the Broughton HPF/LPF, but delivers a bigger punch, I suspect you will have a very successful product - count me in if you do. The main problem you would have is deciding what is the "relevant range". 30Hz HPF cutoff? 40Hz? 10kHz LPF? 6kHz? Would be easy to make them switchable, but it adds to expense, complexity and enclosure size. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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