My tone is a bit dull - Markbass Cabs??

[Linus27]

So, I have a great rig, a Markbass Little Mark III, 2 x Markbass New York 112 cabs and a Fender Jazz American Vintage 75 Reissue. On paper it should sound amazing and it does sound good, but not mind blowingly good. There's nothing wrong with it as such but it just lacks personality. Its just a bit nothing, no sparkle, a bit dull tonally, it just sounds like a bass rather than an amazing bass through an amazing rig.

I'm wondering if it might be the speakers that's letting it down. I would of thought the bass would be perfectly good and the LMIII head is highly regarded so makes me wonder if the speakers are colouring or masking the bass tones in any way.

For EQ I have bass dialled off a bit (10 o clock) and low mid, high mids and treble boosted a bit (2 o clock). Both filters are off. Strings are Ernie Ball Super Slinky.

Anyone got any suggestions or thoughts on the speakers. Wondering if there's anything else I can try before thinking about alternative speakers. Any help very appreciated.

Edited January 31, 2018 by Linus27

[chris_b]

What does your band say?

What does it sound like out front?

Really, I'd be happy with "good" any day of the week.

[Linus27]

Just now, chris_b said:

What does your band say?

What does it sound like out front?

Really, I'd be happy with "good" any day of the week.

I don't think they have thought about it but I guess no comment is good 😊

Not sure about out front as only done three gigs but everyone has been up dancing.

True, I guess good is acceptable but I kind of expected a bit more.

[Skybone]

Maybe you need to spend a bit of time with your setup for tweaking. Take the EQ's to 12 o'clock etc. and take it from there.

Is it a new bass or new rig?

How did you dial your sound in originally? Did you just set the EQ to where you normally set it?

When did you last change your strings? What sort of strings are you using?

Etc. etc.

[Al Krow]

I've got a very similar set up to yours Linus. Mine's a MB AC 121 Lite Combo so effectively a LM3 plus a single 12" MB cab; played it live with a Berg Jazz for a few years with Delano pups.

For EQ, I have my Bass and Lower Mids dialled back to 10 and the Upper Mids an Treble boosted to 2 O'clock and like you I have the (mid scoop) VPF and the (vintage) VLE set to off.

Overall not too bad at all and band mates and audiences have been very happy with the sound.

Possible improvements to your Markbass sound:

I think you will get quite a noticeable difference to your 'authentic' sound from (in order of cost):

a) how old are your strings? Something as simple as brighter / newer round-wound strings will make a noticeable difference - but I think from what you're saying, you've already considered strings, so onto the more expensive solutions (although tbf a second hand MS-60B won't be much more than a decent new set of strings!)...

b) although I'm not using myself, I think you should also be able to get a fair bit of the way there with a quality pre-amp pedal (and there are a number of really good ones to choose from) @Lozz196 is a big fan of a Tech21 PDDI @Cuzzie could bore for England on the merits of a combination of Hartke VXL + 2 Notes Le Bass Channel A + Cali 76 CB compressor, and I must admit I really like the look of (but have not yet tried) a Tech21 Q strip with its HPF and LPF. If you don't already have, you could test the water with something as modest as a Zoom MS-60B pedal, which will continue to be useful for a bunch of other stuff too, even if you do upgrade to a dedicated pre-amp.

c) brighter pups on your bass. Swapping my Berg with its Delanos for my Ibby SR with its growly Nords has been getting appreciative smiles from band mates in rehearsals! They can very much hear the difference - although they do occasionally remark the Ibby is too aggressive / bright (can't please everyone all of the time, right?  )

d) better cabs. The Markbass cabs are good mid-price range cabs around £400 a piece for a 1x12. If you try your head with a Tecamp 2x12, a BF BB2 or a VK 210, which all cost 2 to three times as much, you will hear the difference. Which you'd kinda hope given that you are paying considerably more, right? 

Hope that helps. Whether any of it makes a material difference as far as audiences go when you're playing with your band in the mix is a moot point, but if you can hear the difference yourself in your sound and it brings a smile to your face then that works for me! 

 

 

[Cuzzie]

All I can say is that Markbass are on the ‘wooly’ Side of the spectrum, and have a play to find the sound you like with or without pedals.

Its the only way to get it, it’s what I did. I could suggest what I have used, by it may not be to your ears, bass style, liking etc.

What I will say is try to change one piece of the chain at a time and live with it for a while, as when you first change there will always be a difference, not always better!

[chris_b]

I've recently heard a couple of bass players using MB amps (not the cabs though) and they were getting a very nice full, warm sound.

I'd definitely stick with it and try different EQ settings.

My only experience of MB was an LM2 and I liked it. I had the controls at noon with the filters switched off.

[stevie]

I had an LM3 for a while and thought it was fine. However, I have also played a few times through a Markbass rig (15" + 2x10" ) with the same model amp and had to pull back the bottom end and boost the HF to get a balanced sound. This was at a small festival that I have played at several times - so I was able to hear other players through the same rig. Most of them left the controls flat and sounded like they were playing a double bass in a cupboard.

[Linus27]

Thanks for the advice and suggestions, really appreciate it. I was thinking about it a little bit more last night and maybe wondering if it might actually be the bass to a degree. If I plug my Stingray in, even though its not a tone I want to use, the Stingray tone is very evident. What was more interesting is if I play my ESP Jazz with Bartolini pickups, its sounds lovely (it always has through any rig), very warm but quite nasally. So basically, both basses had tonal personalities which is what I am trying to achieve. The 75 Jazz however just sounded like a bass, a nice sounding bass but no personality, just a generic sounding bass. All three basses have new Ernie Ball Super Slinky strings. So maybe its the pups in the 75 Jazz and not so much the speakers.

I will play with the EQ more as suggested and I also like the look of the Tech 21 PDDI pedal. That might be fun.

[ezbass]

A 75 J bass is the sound of a bass (that and a vintage P) heard on many, many recordings, just doing its job, supporting and not being obtrusive. Of course there were and are those who made their J and P basses stand out, but this was achieved by pushing various 'non-standard' sonic attributes to make it stand out.  The 'Ray and ESP, by comparison, are 'modern' takes on the classic Leo designs (yes I know the 'Ray has been around for ages, but it still a more modern take on the P). The LM heads and cabs doing a fine job of reproducing what is put into them (I had an LMll through a Schroder 2x12 and a fine rig it was, more mid focussed because of the cab) so you may be correct in assuming that some more modern pickups in your J will give your sound that X factor that you're looking for. Trying on of the Tech21 pedals might also get you where you want to go. Either way, it'll be a fun journey .

[FuNkShUi]

I have a LM2 . I would suggest setting the EQ at noon, and having a play with the VPF and VLE.
I don't know how you couldn't find your tone using them. 
Unless you are looking for more distortion? Or more drive? However you want to put it. Markbass is a inherently clean sounding amp, so for grind/drive/distortion, you'd need a pedal. Sansamp worked wonders for me when i needed that kind of sound 

[Linus27]

5 minutes ago, FuNkShUi said:

I have a LM2 . I would suggest setting the EQ at noon, and having a play with the VPF and VLE.
I don't know how you couldn't find your tone using them. 
Unless you are looking for more distortion? Or more drive? However you want to put it. Markbass is a inherently clean sounding amp, so for grind/drive/distortion, you'd need a pedal. Sansamp worked wonders for me when i needed that kind of sound 

Its not a case of finding my tone, its just lacks personality whereas the Stingray and the ESP 66 Jazz have lovely tonal qualities. The 75 Jazz is a clean warm sound but generic. Will fiddle with the filters but they didn't make much difference last time but I will certainly try again.

[FuNkShUi]

1 minute ago, Linus27 said:

Its not a case of finding my tone, its just lacks personality whereas the Stingray and the ESP 66 Jazz have lovely tonal qualities. The 75 Jazz is a clean warm sound but generic. Will fiddle with the filters but they didn't make much difference last time but I will certainly try again.

Lacking personality is just a way of saying it doesn't have a tone you like though surely? 
Or is it not sarcastic enough for your taste? 
Sounds as if you don't particularly like the baked in sound of a Markbass, which is clean and warm. I love that. Really lets you hear your playing and all the nuances.
Of course, that's not for everyone. Maybe a play with the filters will do the job? Maybe a reason to have a look at a few pedals?

[oldbass]

Hard to imagine how MB cant sound good but, and I know this might sound a bit odd.....check ur technique. Playing with a fim but light touch away from the neck will tighten up ur tone like nothing else. The other thing of course is that tone out in the middle of the crowd will sound nothing like the tone we get on stage. Ive always found a thinner stage tone sounds thick and tight on the dance floor!

[Lozz196]

I`ve found that basses played through Markbass gear without the rest of the band sounds a bit bland, however it`s when the rest of the band is going that they come into force, fitting really well in the mix. That said, Markbass cabs do have a high-end roll-off so it maybe that that`s what you`re finding missing, the high end definition that Jazz basses are known for? I found this out when using the same amp eq settings through a Trace Elliot cab and the suddenly there ice-pick highs that emerged. For what it`s worth I`ve found that the Markbass/Barefaced sounds great, heard a good few Basschatters with these rigs and the true(truer?) Markbass sound comes out.

[4000]

No matter how versatile a rig is, I've never found any rig suits 100% of basses. FWIW, I've also never really got on with Markbass. It's not necessarily that they're too clean; I love Trace Elliot with many basses and they're pretty clean. I just always found MB a bit lifeless for what I want and how I play. But given that you seem to like the MB with your other basses, it could just be the bass doesn't match the rig. When I used to run my SEis and my Rickenbackers, the SEis sounded great through rigs that didn't suit the Rics (e.g. EBS) and vice versa. So, my first piece of advice - pretty obvious really - would be to try the Jazz through some different rigs and see if that makes a difference. Also trying a preamp pedal (e.g. Tech21) as has already been mentioned may be an easier option. What did you play the Jazz through that made you buy it? Or did you not try it before buying it?

One other thing, I've had a few Jazzes and have played dozens, and I've never got a good sound out of any of them, regardless of rig, strings, whatever. Which isn't to say they can't sound great because of course they can; someone in the Gallery once took my old Tokai off me, played about 3 notes and sounded amazing, when mere seconds before I was playing it and sounding the very definition of 'meh'. I just can never get them to sound good; they don't suit me. Actually, there was one once that was pretty good, but that had EMGs in it. I've never got a good sound out of a stock Jazz. Maybe it just doesn't suit you?

Edited February 1, 2018 by 4000

[la bam]

I love mark bass amps. I think theyre amazing.

However, i really dont like mark bass cabs. They always sound as if the sound is coming from a long way away rather than were the cab is situated to me.

I went for a barefaced super compact and that really brought the amp to life.

[Lozz196]

42 minutes ago, 4000 said:

One other thing, I've had a few Jazzes and have played dozens, and I've never got a good sound out of any of them, regardless of rig, strings, whatever. Which isn't to say they can't sound great because of course they can; someone in the Gallery once took my old Tokai off me, played about 3 notes and sounded amazing, when mere seconds before I was playing it and sounding the very definition of 'meh'. I just can never get them to sound good; they don't suit me. Actually, there was one once that was pretty good, but that had EMGs in it. I've never got a good sound out of a stock Jazz. Maybe it just doesn't suit you?

That sums up Jazz basses for me too - I love the sound that others can get from them, whereas for reasons of decency I shouldn`t be allowed anywhere near one.

[Linus27]

47 minutes ago, 4000 said:

No matter how versatile a rig is, I've never found any rig suits 100% of basses. FWIW, I've also never really got on with Markbass. It's not necessarily that they're too clean; I love Trace Elliot with many basses and they're pretty clean. I just always found MB a bit lifeless for what I want and how I play. But given that you seem to like the MB with your other basses, it could just be the bass doesn't match the rig. When I used to run my SEis and my Rickenbackers, the SEis sounded great through rigs that didn't suit the Rics (e.g. EBS) and vice versa. So, my first piece of advice - pretty obvious really - would be to try the Jazz through some different rigs and see if that makes a difference. Also trying a preamp pedal (e.g. Tech21) as has already been mentioned may be an easier option. What did you play the Jazz through that made you buy it? Or did you not try it before buying it?

One other thing, I've had a few Jazzes and have played dozens, and I've never got a good sound out of any of them, regardless of rig, strings, whatever. Which isn't to say they can't sound great because of course they can; someone in the Gallery once took my old Tokai off me, played about 3 notes and sounded amazing, when mere seconds before I was playing it and sounding the very definition of 'meh'. I just can never get them to sound good; they don't suit me. Actually, there was one once that was pretty good, but that had EMGs in it. I've never got a good sound out of a stock Jazz. Maybe it just doesn't suit you?

I've pretty much played Jazz basses for 30 years and never had a problem with them. I have found it is very dependent on what rig you are using with one rig making them sound amazing and then another making them sound just ok. So I kind of know how amazing a Jazz can sound and especially through my MarkBass rig as my ESP 66 Jazz is amazing. In fact my ESP has sounded amazing through everything. I just want to get my Fender 75 Jazz to sound the same. I kind of expected a bass this good to be a bit more special but maybe I am asking too much of it or its giving the exact sound it should and its just not the tone I want. Come to think of it, I once had the Fender Mexican 60's Reissue Jazz and that sounded amazing through my MarkBass rig so maybe I just prefer the sound of a 60's Jazz more than a 70's Jazz. I could change the pickups to the same Barts that are in my ESP but that kind of defeats the object to me of getting a 75 RI bass if you are then going to change the sound away from what its supposed to sound like. I wonder if Fender do vintage 60's Jazz pickups.

Anyway, I will try fiddling with the EQ more and look at the Tech 21 pedal as well as this might be fun to play with anyway.

[Conan]

1 minute ago, Linus27 said:

 I just prefer the sound of a 60's Jazz more than a 70's Jazz. I could change the pickups to the same Barts that are in my ESP but that kind of defeats the object to me of getting a 75 RI bass if you are then going to change the sound away from what its supposed to sound like. I wonder if Fender do vintage 60's Jazz pickups.

You do know that the pickups are in slightly different positions in "60s" and "70s" Jazz basses I assume? 

[tobiewharton]

A lot of great advice here.  I agree with some - MB cabs are 'woody' and uninspiring to my ears, but then I've always played active basses with soapbars through them and been underwhelmed (seem to remember playing a jazz with DiMarzios and being disappointed too?), so I may be delighted by the results with an old P. 

If you want real sparkle, change the cabs, but a string change/outboard preamp/pup change could make all the difference you're after.

Cheers,

Tobie

[Linus27]

6 minutes ago, Conan said:

You do know that the pickups are in slightly different positions in "60s" and "70s" Jazz basses I assume? 

Yes I knew that. No idea on the spacing of my ESP 66 Jazz but as it came from the same factory that was making Fender basses and has an exact same headstock as a Fender, I am assuming the pickup spacing is going to be 60's. I am also assuming that the Fender Mexican 60's Reissue would have 60's pickup spacing although with Fender you can never tell

[Jazzjames]

How does the bass sound acoustically? If it sounds good when played unplugged, that will usually translate into good amplified tone, in my experience.

Having a 75RI doesn’t mean a whole lot; there will be good ones and bad ones. The variation is pretty significant.

I’ve never owned any markbass gear but found it easy enough to get different tones out of their gear when I’ve had the gear supplied for me.  A little lacking in top end but really toppy bass sounds don’t work in most mixes anyway!

[Sibob]

Ernie Ball strings are known to die pretty quickly, try something like the Dunlop Super Brights or D'Addario NYXLs, basically anything steel that has more life to them than EBs lol

Si

[TheGreek]

I sold my MB Jeff Berlin combo because i had the same feelings as the OP. However the tone was much improved with the addition of a good compressor. Have you tried that?