Are Markbass cabs now considered a bit rubbish?

[Wolverinebass]

I've been wondering for some months about this. I've seen various comments along with the recent thread on dullness of the cabs. We'll leave the amps aside for the moment. Back in 2007 they were surfing on the move to lightweight gear. Nowadays virtually everyone is doing that. Leaving aside colour scheme here I'm talking about sound properties.

I appreciate that they've probably been surpassed, by brands like Bergantino, Barefaced, Vanderkley and all them. The glut of Markbass cabs in the classifieds suggests that maybe they're not keepers? I imagine that the sourcing of work to Indonesia led to some more than negative publicity as did the move from B&C speakers to in house which allegedly may or may not be as good or well engineered.

Just wondering what the views were. For the record, I have the Traveller 2x10 and 1x15 and I'm not stating an opinion of the newer stuff as I've got a previous generation of "made in Italy/B&C speakers" and I haven't played the newer ones. 

Are they now budget cabs in comparison? Just curious.

[burno70]

Not sure about that as they're not exactly cheap are they? I had the same rig as you. The BF super 12 is so much better in every aspect not just the weight. It was cheaper than that pairing too. 

[chris_b]

I think you'll find in the thread that the Mark Bass rig sounded "great" with two of the guys basses but "dull" with the third.

That doesn't sound like a cab problem to me.

[stevie]

I don't see any evidence they're any better or worse than anything else. Is there really a glut of used Mark Bass cabs? There are currently none in  the Basschat amps-for-sale section until you get to page 3 - quite a few MB amps though, and quite a few other brands of cab.

[Al Krow]

A long way from being 'rubbish': they are very decent cabs and reflective of their price point. 

BF, VK and Tecamp / Eich are undoubtedly a step up. My Markbass LM3 head definitely sounded better (e.g. in terms of articulation) through each of these as compared to the 1x12 Markbass combo cab my LM3 head is packaged with. 

But you're typcially paying 2 to 3 times more for the comparable cab if you're getting BF, VK or Tecamp, so you'd hope / expect these more high end cabs to be better wouldn't you?

My Markbass combo (and therefore its cab) has been completely fine for pub gigs for several years with my bands with no complaints from audiences and band mates. A little boominess on occasion was very easily sorted by simply changing the position of the cab to prevent feedback through the PA and adjusting the EQ.

 

[Dan Dare]

I've found MB cabs are slightly unusual in that, up close, they don't sound that great, but they do project very well. A pal uses the 2x10 combo and it has real punch out in the room, but sounds quite ordinary when you stand next to it.

[spongebob]

I used to run a 121 amp and New York cab, a 2x12 set-up. Had it for a good while, served me well, but moved on to the Fender Rumbles when the bought out the V3's.

Due to a change in transportation, I now run the Fender Rumble head (500) with a new (a month ago) Markbass 102P Traveler cab, the 400w 4 ohm variant.

To my ears, it sounds awesome. It's a great match with the Fender head, better than my outgoing cabs IMHO. 

They're not cheap, but they're lightweight, and I like mine more than my old MB ones. 

I had a problem with my Italian cab - loose wire meant a repair under a year old. I don't think the country of origin is any issue. Italy, Indonesia, wherever....they're still making a knockout product in my eyes. 

[TheGreek]

I wasn't overly impressed with the Jeff Berlin combo I had TBH. Adding a Compressor helped but I think there is better gear out there.

[songofthewind]

I like my CMD 102p combo very much. A wide range of tones. Different basses sound very different through it. Who knew?

[mxm]

Had a new BF G3 Big Twin, never got on with it.  Just couldn’t find a sweet spot when paired with a few different heads, gutted to be honest.

Searched out a couple of used Italian period traveller 12’s - felt I was on to something.

Finally now using 2 1x12 MB Ninjas and I’m much happier.

[Wolverinebass]

It kind of seemed to me that there was quite a lot of people flogging the cabs. Probably that wasn't the case as I was looking at them so there was probably less than I thought.

However, last night I had @Al Krow round at mine and we compared my cabs with his Vanderkley 2x10. Well, that was sickening. I've long thought that the line out signal from my sansamp is harsh in comparison to the cab sound with the tweeters maxed. After trying that 2x10 with the tweeter on max it was obvious. The sound got really harsh.

So, either Vanderkley cabs are really bright or Markbass cabs are slightly dull. Or both. Either way, you'd assume it's be better as it cost twice as much.

[Al Krow]

42 minutes ago, Wolverinebass said:

It kind of seemed to me that there was quite a lot of people flogging the cabs. Probably that wasn't the case as I was looking at them so there was probably less than I thought.

However, last night I had @Al Krow round at mine and we compared my cabs with his Vanderkley 2x10. Well, that was sickening. I've long thought that the line out signal from my sansamp is harsh in comparison to the cab sound with the tweeters maxed. After trying that 2x10 with the tweeter on max it was obvious. The sound got really harsh.

So, either Vanderkley cabs are really bright or Markbass cabs are slightly dull. Or both. Either way, you'd assume it's be better as it cost twice as much.

Yup it was a real pleasure to be able spend a couple of hours round at @Wolverinebass's studio last night. He has some amazing kit (and some great stories to go with them!)

During the course of the evening, we A/B'd his Markbass stack (2x10 plus 1x15) with my VK 210. A couple of points for me:

a) by adjusting the EQ on his bass (a Fender P which had a huge tonal sweep) he was able to get the Markbass to sound pretty similar to the VK;

b) I guess we should have taken the 1x15 out of the loop to get a fairer direct comparison!

c) bear in mind that W-bass has one of the more sophisticated preamp and amps (combined with real time freq signal display) that you're likely to see outside of a recording studio 

d) the VK, as he's implied, gave a "truer" reflection of what the bass and amp was outputting (and I wouldn't normally have the tweeter set on max btw!) i.e. it has greater fidelity to the signal hitting it and in that sense it is certainly the 'better' cab; the Markbass cab does muddy / dull / colour it slightly which many folk like as a 'warmer' sound. 

My conclusions

With basses that have a smaller tonal sweep you probably couldn't sufficiently adjust the tone to compensate for the muddier / duller sound the Markbass is producing relative to a more hi-fi VK, BF or Tecamp;

For most 'pub' gigs, no one is really going to notice and I still take my my Markbass combo to rehearsals and gigs just 'cos it's so convenient and plenty 'good enough' for those purposes;

For @Wolverinebass where his other gear is all pretty much studio grade and he is using it for recording, the Markbass cabs are left looking a little out of their depth in such quality company!

 

Edited February 3, 2018 by Al Krow

[CameronJ]

It’s all subjective, really. Ive found I personally favour MB’s 15” cabs over their 10s and 12s but when you have a whole slew of incredible players out there who regularly gig and record with MB amps and cabs (the likes of Marcus Miller and Michael League come to mind) I don’t think it’s in any way fair to label them as rubbish.

We all have differing tastes but it has been said numerous times both here and Talkbass, the cabs can sound a bit “ordinary” up close but really come into their own when out in the room/in the mix with the rest of the band.

[Lozz196]

10 hours ago, Wolverinebass said:

It kind of seemed to me that there was quite a lot of people flogging the cabs. Probably that wasn't the case as I was looking at them so there was probably less than I thought.

However, last night I had @Al Krow round at mine and we compared my cabs with his Vanderkley 2x10. Well, that was sickening. I've long thought that the line out signal from my sansamp is harsh in comparison to the cab sound with the tweeters maxed. After trying that 2x10 with the tweeter on max it was obvious. The sound got really harsh.

So, either Vanderkley cabs are really bright or Markbass cabs are slightly dull. Or both. Either way, you'd assume it's be better as it cost twice as much.

It`s the Markbass cabs that are the culprits. I`ve found they have a high-end roll off that means whatever sound you get working well with them, when DI`d the sound is much harsher and treblier than you`d want. Many cabs are voiced a certain way - my Ashdown ABMs add in a lot of low-end, something I found out when I switched to them from Barefaced which really were as close to flat as I can describe.

[Wolverinebass]

1 hour ago, Lozz196 said:

It`s the Markbass cabs that are the culprits. I`ve found they have a high-end roll off that means whatever sound you get working well with them, when DI`d the sound is much harsher and treblier than you`d want. Many cabs are voiced a certain way - my Ashdown ABMs add in a lot of low-end, something I found out when I switched to them from Barefaced which really were as close to flat as I can describe.

To be fair @Lozz196 I've come round to agreeing with you on this. The Vanderkley was as harsh as the DI when I put the tone of the Precision back up. I had to roll it off a quarter to get where the Markbass was with the tweeters on full. When I was in my last band, the Sansamp out from my 12 string sounded like a buzzsaw. There was like no low end and the top end was just insane. In the end I used it only at very low levels for bite. Bonkers isn't it? If I change cabs it's got to be an upgrade. On the other hand, I'll have to get back into a band first to justify it. That's another thread full of tonto hilarity and woe in itself when I get round to writing about it to amuse folk. Hopefully soon.

[discreet]

I like Barefaced Cabs, but if weight were not an issue I'd use Markbass cabs. I love 'em. If they are guilty of colouring one's sound, then it's a colour I like. I've used Markbass rigs a lot as backline and I'm always pleased to see an MB rig because I know I'm going to be heard, I'm going to hear myself, and I'm going to sound good. So I play better.

They're relatively expensive because they're well-built. They're not actually that heavy, either - only when you compare them to boutique, ultra-lightweight cabs. I'm a fan of Markbass combos, too - the 1X15 combo in particular is fantastic.

I have a theory (possibly insane), that bass gear manufacturers know that a large percentage of their customer base never play outside of their rooms and tailor their products accordingly. Markbass may sound a bit flat in your bedroom, but at a venue they really kick it out and sound very punchy, articulate and lush at battle levels and 'in concert'. OK, I'm done!

[Wolverinebass]

It's funny you say that @discreet about the combo. I played a 1x15 Markbass combo at an audition a couple of weeks ago and it was total crap. There was no tweeter, so I had to make some quick decisions. 

I was playing my Wal and ended up with all the pots and pick attack pulled on the bass. On the amp I had to cut the bass, turn the filters off (does anyone use them?) and maxed out the treble and high mids. The sound was barely passable. I just couldn't get any snap or click out of it and it really put me off leading to me making a bit of a mess of it. Or, at the very least, I could have played a lot better.

I hasten to add that I started this thread to see if somehow I'd missed the prevailing wind of opinion that Markbass were now regarded as a bit "meh," or if I was just imagining that was the case. It definitely wasn't to have a go at them. Let's face it, if my cabs were total rubbish I'd have flogged them long ago, but maybe I'm just waking up properly to the fact that they're possibly not going to give me what I want as easily as other brands.

[discreet]

 

25 minutes ago, Wolverinebass said:

...maybe I'm just waking up properly to the fact that they're possibly not going to give me what I want as easily as other brands.

Markbass sounded good to me when it first appeared and it still does. I'd be delighted if the fickle finger of fashion pointed away from them - presumably this would cause a glut of used MB gear to appear on the market at knock-down prices..?

Edited February 3, 2018 by discreet

[Lozz196]

Yep, when I was in bands that didn`t require DI-ing my Markbass rigs were great, excellent sound in the mix, really happy with them. It was later on when DI-ing that I realised this high-end roll-off.

[Guest]

IMHO I think few years ago MB was one of the first brands building light cabs and class D amps (it was not the very first one but it was the one with the lowest prices), now there is lot of manufacturers doing it, so it´s more complicated to be the one that light over the rest.

Sorry for my crappy english.

[discreet]

11 hours ago, Lozz196 said:

Yep, when I was in bands that didn`t require DI-ing my Markbass rigs were great, excellent sound in the mix, really happy with them. It was later on when DI-ing that I realised this high-end roll-off.

I used to warm up my Little Mark with a BDI-21 and always used the DI out from that, so the MB DI thing never revealed itself. Except at the Jazz Cafe using their house MB rig, but I didn't notice...  

[Dan Dare]

11 hours ago, Lozz196 said:

Yep, when I was in bands that didn`t require DI-ing my Markbass rigs were great, excellent sound in the mix, really happy with them. It was later on when DI-ing that I realised this high-end roll-off.

I don't think MB uses high end roll-off, but that many manufacturers build in high end boost to give their products showroom appeal.

[franzbassist]

The Markbass Traveller 123 cab is superb.  It has power handling in spades, and the combination of 12" and 5" drivers plus a high quality tweeter means it's very articulate.  It's compact too, albeit quite weighty.

 

[Al Krow]

46 minutes ago, discreet said:

I used to warm up my Little Mark with a BDI-21 and always used the DI out from that, so the MB DI thing never revealed itself. Except at the Jazz Cafe using their house MB rig, but I didn't notice...  

 The issue that Lozz and co have mentioned is a tone-roll off with the Markbass cabs, so what you're hearing from the cabs is not the same as the signal going into the amp and coming out via the amp DI (and it's certainly possible to take the DI either pre or post amp EQ on a number of Markbass heads- certainly on my 500W AC 121 Lite). Taking a DI out from a pedal is simply going to be equivalent to taking a pre EQ from the amp; it won't change impact that the cab has on what you are hearing.

I do really like your implication, though, that if it's good enough for the Jazz Cafe (and fyi Boisdale also use Markbass as their house gear) then frankly it should be good enough for most of us!  

40 minutes ago, Dan Dare said:

I don't think MB uses high end roll-off, but that many manufacturers build in high end boost to give their products showroom appeal.

Not sure I fully agree with this? VK and BF will both be similarly brighter than a Markbass cab; and if BF is famous for two things it's: (i) being light and (ii) a close to flat response as any cabs.

The one criticism of the Markbass amps (which are generally very good) is their EQ points: the bass frequency is centred at 40 Hz, which is a touch low and perhaps more importantly the treble is centred at 10kHz which is significantly above a more usable 3kHz to 5kHz.

• LOW: center frequency: 40 Hz; level: ±16 dB
• LOW MID: center frequency: 360 Hz, level: ±16 dB
• HIGH MID: center frequency: 800 Hz, level: ±16 dB
• HIGH: center frequency: 10 kHz, level: ±16 dB
• VPF (Variable Pre-shape Filter)[= mid-scoop]: center frequency 380 Hz
• VLE (Vintage Loudspeaker Emulator): frequency range 250 Hz-20 kHz 

So if Wolverinebass was having to use a Markbass combo at a band audition and not anticipating having to deal with the impact of:

(i) a not so helpful treble EQ control (which I suspect is not widely known); and at the same time trying to compensate for 

(ii) a treble roll off / slightly more muddy / warmer sound from the cab

Then I can understand that it could have been a bit off-putting!

Edited February 4, 2018 by Al Krow

[Dan Dare]

I still think we have become conditioned into hearing too bright a sound from basses these days. Listen to a double bass, which tends to produce mainly the fundamental of the note. Where are the bright overtones or the sizzle we hear from so many electric basses? I'm not criticising the fact that people like that effect, but it isn't necessarily accurate or "flat".