Are Markbass cabs now considered a bit rubbish?

[Wolverinebass]

19 minutes ago, chris_b said:

I heard that Victor Wooten wanted to go with Bergantino, but they couldn't guarantee to supply him with gear where ever he was in the world.

So that's a non financial reason for using Hartke.

That's really interesting Chris as I didn't know that about bergantino. I have to ask, have you ever played a TX600? It's woeful and Hartke have cooked the books on the watts. I'd never play one in setting where I had a choice even if it was free. A mate of mine bought one and he sent it back. I honestly didn't believe him until I played the thing myself. Utter Crap.

As for Sheehan, he's using a helix so the Hartke is just a poweramp. Even before he had that I'd imagine most of his toneshaping was from his board rather than the LH1000. 

However, I digress. 😉

[Al Krow]

50 minutes ago, discreet said:

Just like in the 70s and 80s you could buy a new car that was slow and badly put together, today most new cars are much of a muchness regarding quality and performance.

Hmmm...really? Got to disagree on that one.

There's still a big difference between a budget entry level car and a high-end luxury or sports models. A Nissan Micra, is a fine car, but it's no Porsche.

My TC BG250 115 (£329) was fine as a 'starter' amp when I was first picking up the bass but it's completely 'meh' compared to higher end combos e.g. the Markbass AC 121 Lite (£989 new) or even the more modestly priced Fender Rumble 500 210 (£575); and frankly you'd expect that given the price differential, right?

[discreet]

Sorry, didn't make myself clear. What I meant was, there's a huge difference between a budget, entry-level bass amp (or car) of the 1970s, and the modern equivalent.

Audition amp and Kay bass from Woolworth's, anyone?

[Al Krow]

On 03/02/2018 at 22:28, Wolverinebass said:

It's funny you say that @discreet about the combo. I played a 1x15 Markbass combo at an audition a couple of weeks ago and it was total crap. There was no tweeter...

...On the amp I had to cut the bass, turn the filters off (does anyone use them?) 

The great thing about this thread is that it's making me have another closer look at my Markbass combo and what it can do!

Picking up on a couple of your earlier comments, which I've been reflecting on:

Unlike the 1x15 combo you used, the AC 121 Lite does have a tweeter with separate power module (100W in my case and 300W in the more recent gen 2.0 versions, but frankly 100W is plenty for me). And a number of other stand alone current Markbass cabs have very decent horns rather than tweeters which many folk prefer in any event.

Does anyone use the filters? Well must admit I haven't been thus far. The two standard MB filters on the amps are the 'VPF' and 'VLE'. The VPF is a classic mid scoop which is fine for solo playing at home but much less useful in a band mix. The VLE however (as per my earlier chart posted above) is in fact a dedicated LPF, but with a more gentle slope to give things a 'vintage' feel, with a frequency range of 250Hz to 20kHz. On a low to mid setting that is going to nicely take out the high f fizzy tweeter end of things e.g. prevalent on certain dirt pedals. So I think the VLE is about to go from a never used to an always on setting! 

The one shortcoming for me of the heads, for me, is the EQ points, with the bass EQ a touch too low at 40Hz and a big gap between the upper mids (EQ centre at 800Hz) and high (EQ centre at 10kHz) - it would be great to have the ability to push the EQ between 1.5kHz and 5kHz in the 'usable treble' range to deal with the high end roll-off of the combo's 1x12 Markbass cab (which folk have touched on earlier) should we want to. Well all that should be very easily solved by setting up a patch on a Zoom MS-60B (or similar multi-fx or a dedicated EQ pedal).

Given all its other plus points which include great build quality, reliability and bags of headroom (500W) and only weighing 37 lbs, I'm rapidly coming to agree with @discreet's comment to me the other day that "The MB AC is probably one of the best gigging combos out there, bar none..." a view I had previously held until some of my BC buddies successfully managed to persuade me otherwise! I think with the additional tweaks above, this combo is going to be around in the Krow household for a little while yet  

Edited February 6, 2018 by Al Krow

[discreet]

6 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

Does anyone use the filters? Well must admit I haven't been thus far. The two standard MB filters on the amps are the 'VPF' and 'VLE'. The VPF is a classic mid scoop which is fine for solo playing at home but much less useful in a band mix. The VLE however (as per my earlier chart posted above) is in fact a dedicated LPF with a frequency range of 250Hz to 20kHz. On a low to mid setting that is going to nicely take out the high f fizzy tweeter end of things e.g. prevalent on certain dirt pedals.

I would agree. the VLE is much more useful (IMHO) in that it can make a relatively hi-fi amp sound more old-school. The VPF I could do without entirely. My theory (which may be a load of rubbish, I'm not sure) that some manufacturers tailor their products to sound good in showrooms and houses, would make the VPF a good idea from Markbass's point of view - use the VPF when you want the amp to sound good in anything other than a live gigging situation, then have it fully 'off' when gigging, as a scooped sound will make you disappear in the mix - you could say it's just an unnecessary  bell or whistle, or on the other hand it may be a brilliant bit of marketing covering all bases. Who knows?

[Jus Lukin]

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Edited March 1, 2022 by Jus Lukin

[discreet]

2 minutes ago, Jus Lukin said:

I very rarely use the VPF, but there have been perhaps two instances over the course of about ten years of Markbass usage, where I had a pretty 'honky' sound on stage- 8th of a turn on the VPF, and boom, just like that!

I have found the same on occasion, but the temptation is to think that if a little sounds good then a lot must be better... any more than just a touch of VPF at a gig is too much. IMHO, of course.

[Al Krow]

11 minutes ago, Jus Lukin said:

The VLE is handy, and for a long time I have used it as a default at about a third up. Like many of these things (comps and HPF too), I might set it so I don't think it's done anything- it's only when I take it off that I hear how it was shaving of that little bit that I didn't need. It's great for running fuzz with a tweeter, too. Takes off that opaque fizz, leaving the rich, roaring, throatiness I'm after!

Yup, that's exactly what I had in mind (including the 2/6 VLE dial setting). Like me, at this rate, you're going to be ending up keeping your MB gear and not getting rid of it, much to the chagrin of Mrs Lukin and her lounge...  

Edited February 6, 2018 by Al Krow

[Jus Lukin]

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Edited March 1, 2022 by Jus Lukin

[Ghost_Bass]

I never liked the MB cabs tone, the mids are all wrong (for my taste) and they sound like they caught a cold and have a clogged nose, IMO. The amps aren't too bad but the only one i trully liked to hear through different cabs was the F1. Build quality is (at least was back when they were made in Italy) top notch and made to last.

[Jus Lukin]

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Edited March 1, 2022 by Jus Lukin

[Ghost_Bass]

On 06/02/2018 at 18:19, Jus Lukin said:

No interest to you then Ghost-Bass but this thread has nudged me along! I've sat and put most of my Markbass collection up for sale... 

If you're moving on to something that gives you your desired tone then sell it! Sell the damned thing! But if you like that tone there's nothing wrong in keeping it regardless of what people write on forums. Like you said in a previous post, if people don't know what they're doing when turning knobs they can make the best piece of kit sound like crap (let's see if the forum auto-correct lets this one pass...)

[Jus Lukin]

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Edited February 25, 2022 by Jus Lukin

[Ghost_Bass]

6 minutes ago, Jus Lukin said:

(...)

Most of what I was selling was snapped up in the first day or two, so the decision has been cemented pretty quickly! 

And this speaks a lot about the thread's topic. MB gear may not be seen with the same eyes as some years ago but there's still a lot of market for them. They didn't got worse with time, other things were designed in the meantime and now there's a bit more choice for everybody.

[chris_b]

6 hours ago, Ghost_Bass said:

And this speaks a lot about the thread's topic. MB gear may not be seen with the same eyes as some years ago but there's still a lot of market for them. They didn't got worse with time, other things were designed in the meantime and now there's a bit more choice for everybody.

+1

[Lozz196]

Well last night I saw a bassist using a Thunderbird, into a Markbass Little Mark, into a Markbass CL106 - sounded amazing, and having lifted that CL106 it was amazingly light for a 6x10.

[Woodinblack]

I always assumed that a lot of things in the market place just means that there are a lot of those things. However good something is, people are going to want to sell it at some point.

[krispn]

It goes back to what Jus Lukin said if you don’t know how the gear works or how to get the best sound out of it you’ll never sound good. If it’s not sounding right after learning how it works then move on. We are spoilt for choice. Plus we grow accustomed to a sound and want to expand our horizon hence pedals, basses, amps always getting punted.. how many folk have sold up gear only to regret it six months later. 

Edited February 10, 2018 by krispn

[Al Krow]

 

22 hours ago, krispn said:

It goes back to what Jus Lukin said if you don’t know how the gear works or how to get the best sound out of it you’ll never sound good. If it’s not sounding right after learning how it works then move on. We are spoilt for choice. Plus we grow accustomed to a sound and want to expand our horizon hence pedals, basses, amps always getting punted.. how many folk have sold up gear only to regret it six months later. 

This!

As someone who owns a Markbass 1x12 and plays it alongside a VK210 and a Mesa 2x12, I find I'm in complete agreement with krispn's sentiment above. It's taken me a little while to really find out what's making my Markbass cab tick and what it's particularly good at / that folk listening to it like, such as its warmer coloured tone and where adjusting EQ can benefit me e.g. a little boost in the 3kHz to 5kHz range  (and I found the observations from fellow BCers above and elsewhere very helpful indeed in getting me there).

I've toyed from time to time with moving my combo on (usual itch to try something new), but in terms of getting a better gigging combo than the AC 121 Lite, I suspect I may be hard pushed; so it will be around in the Krow household for a little while longer yet.

 

Edited February 11, 2018 by Al Krow

[Creeper]

Nothing wrong with Mark Bass stuff, light and loud, tone wise they are transparent and you change tone with your preamp. Good stuff in my opinion.

[RandomBass]

Odd really. A few years ago MB were the bastions of high quality, low weight amplification. You couldn't move without bumping into some of their gear.

Times have moved on. Now we want high quality low weight amps. Oh hold on a minute...

Maybe it's a tonal thing.

In other words, I have no idea about their cabs though. Lol.

 

Edited February 17, 2018 by RandomBass
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[MoJoKe]

Like most manufacturers, Markbass have never stood still and are currently going through a significant evolution.  Sadly the new cabs (5 very different ones.  2 Marcus Miller, 2 Michael League and the Stu Hamm 2 x 15, which is amazingly articulate, given the configuration), which were launched at NAMM, won't be in the UK until June, I suggest you reserve your critique until then, because I suspect you will be pleased with the result!

Preview here:  http://www.markbass.it/media/upload_area/2018/01/18/cat_news2018_web_light.pdf

I am currently getting my head around the new Little Marcus 800, and it is a beast!  A very different beast, and while it can easily be made to sound just like an LM3, it is far more old school and a darker, warmer tone at its "everything at 12 o'clock" setting.  With five tone knobs and that the VLE now extends a further 50hz down to 200hz, makes a massive difference...

The new Combo I think will be quite exciting too, as the head is offset, meaning that the cab is as small and light as it could possibly be, given the frequency range it'll be handling.

Both the 500 and 800 heads will be at the London Bass Guitar Show, where I will be working alongside MSL again, so do say hi if you're coming! 

Edited February 19, 2018 by MoJoKe

[Muzz]

I've had a slew of the LMII, LMII, Rocker, etc heads, all of which were pretty ground-breaking a few years ago, but are now kinda Last Generation Class D, and sound it. Like other folk, I always had to zing the LMs up with an always-on pedal in front of them, which ultimately doomed them for me.

The cabs...I've had the 104HR and the 15 combo and 15 extension, and again, they were good at the time, very light and efficient but just not as efficient or light as kit that has come out since. I hated the tweeters, they were a major turn-off for me.

They may not be in the same price bracket as the likes of Vanderkley, Berg or BF, but at £650 or so for a 212, they're not far off, and, for me, if I'm going to that expense, a little more to get the best is well worth it.

A pal of mine in the retail business always said "It's very hard to sound bad through MB kit", and while I'd agree, it's still kinda damning with faint praise...

All of the above obviously is IMHO, YMMV if you like the cab colouring etc, etc...

[Count Bassy]

On 2/2/2018 at 13:24, Wolverinebass said:

The glut of Markbass cabs in the classifieds suggests that maybe they're not keepers?

It could just be that there are many more of them out there than some of the other brands.

[fleabag]

I've owned a New York 2x12 and two New York 1x12's and a pair of the strange New York 4x6 cabs.

I actually preferred the 4x6's. The bottom end on those small cabs was marvellous