Grangur Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 Just saw this on The Guardian web site: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/feb/05/courier-who-was-fined-for-day-off-to-see-doctor-dies-from-diabetes This doesn't make one feel inclined to use DPD for bass deliveries. But I guess many couriers will have folk on the same types of contracts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mentalextra Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 25 minutes ago, Grangur said: Just saw this on The Guardian web site: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2018/feb/05/courier-who-was-fined-for-day-off-to-see-doctor-dies-from-diabetes This doesn't make one feel inclined to use DPD for bass deliveries. But I guess many couriers will have folk on the same types of contracts. Sadly a sign of the times Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martthebass Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 Yes, we've never had it so good, record employment levels etc.......stinks to high heaven. Rant over. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SH73 Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 I think all employers are putting their employees under tremendous amount of pressure regardless the impact on their health. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huge Hands Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 Although I totally agree the firm appear to be out of order, and massive condolences to his family, I can't help but think of the amount of "xxxx courier are rubbish" threads or "how much to send an amp?" threads I've seen on here. Makes you think, doesn't it? It seems a pretty cut throat/thankless business, and we're much more of a instant/demanding society now....but am I willing to pay more/wait longer for my deliveries to ease pressure/pay to give staff better working conditions? Tricky one.... ...and before anyone shows me up- yes, I'm sure I have negatively particpated in some of those courier threads myself... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Steve Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 2 hours ago, SH73 said: I think all employers are putting their employees under tremendous amount of pressure regardless the impact on their health. the problem here is that, as far as DPD are concerned he wasn't an employee, he was a subcontractor, and they weren't refusing to let him take time off, they were exercising the clause in the contract for services which occurs if his "company" failed to complete any work that day. It'll be things like that that flush out the true employment status for the gig economy, but it's a horribly confused and difficult legal landscape. One of the tests for "employed vs self employed" is whether you are solely responsible for, in this case, making the deliveries, or free to accept other work and if you can arrange for the work to be done by others. On the face of it, this doesn't seem to give much room for somebody to arrange for somebody else to do the deliveries...but having seen some legal briefings on the topic I'm only sure that I don't understand it all in nearly enough detail to guess how the courts would interpret it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EliasMooseblaster Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 10 minutes ago, Monkey Steve said: the problem here is that, as far as DPD are concerned he wasn't an employee, he was a subcontractor, and they weren't refusing to let him take time off, they were exercising the clause in the contract for services which occurs if his "company" failed to complete any work that day. It'll be things like that that flush out the true employment status for the gig economy... I think I'm right in saying that some similar firms have come a-cropper when enough employees/"sub-contractors" have banded together to take them to court - I'm sure someone like Hermes or Deliveroo was ordered to changes the terms of their contract to offer basic workers' rights such as sick leave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Steve Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 Deliveroo actually won their case: https://www.theguardian.com/business/2017/nov/14/deliveroo-couriers-minimum-wage-holiday-pay specifically on the basis that the couriers were self employed because the system allowed them to find a mate to do the deliveries for them and there was no requirement for them to actually turn up and do the work Uber and Pimlico Plumbers are the most high profile employers to have lost a case although the plumbers are appealing to the high court http://www.pimlicoplumbers.com/media/news/pimlico-plumbers-to-take-self-employment-case-ruling-to-the-supreme-court The irony isn't lost on them that the plumbers that they employ typically earn very good money, whereas for Deliveroo and I suspect the likes of DPD, the "self employed" isn't just about avoiding things like sick leave and holiday pay (and employer's NI, let's not pretend that it's all about the benefits) it also keeps the rates they pay for each delivery very low because the minimum wage doesn't apply Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lojo Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 Every self employed person is effectively fined when they need to go to a appointment or have a family issue . I do feel for people who like the man in the article but unfortunately a lot of the companies policies are to protect the company against the large amount of people who take to Micheal out of their employer , sadly this means innocent good workers get effected by it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roger2611 Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 26 minutes ago, lojo said: Every self employed person is effectively fined when they need to go to a appointment or have a family issue . I do feel for people who like the man in the article but unfortunately a lot of the companies policies are to protect the company against the large amount of people who take to Micheal out of their employer , sadly this means innocent good workers get effected by it "Freedom to screw you before you screw me" [sic] comes to mind, it's a sad world we live in! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grangur Posted February 5, 2018 Author Share Posted February 5, 2018 This does seems to be a "new world problem". The fact, is DPD say he's free to have other clients. The reality is, if he's got 5 days work, he has no time to have any other clients. Years ago I was working contract as a design-engineer. At that time HMRC work closing down on self-employed contractors who only had a single client. They were then arguing that you're not self-employed unless you have more than 1 client. I guess, big-businesses have strong-armed the Gov't and facilitated this and zero-hours contracts, because this is the way that large companies can get cheap-labour to cover out-sourced contracts like hospital/school security, cleaning, maintenance, and all the other similar things. It's a mad world. Can't wait to wake up and find it's all a dream. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BreadBin Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 Whilst I have every sympathy for the poor fella in the linked article I can't help thinking that someone who is likely to black out at the wheel probably shouldn't be in that line of work. Couriers are under tremendous pressure, it's certainly not a job I would like to have. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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