pburrows Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 Dudes. My band now seem to be playing mainly larger venues now and don't really do pubs and smaller venues. This means that I am relying on DI to the house PA. Generally this is fine, I use the XLR out from my Trace Amp. I use a Sans Amp to handle a EQ and a bit of drive. What I'd really like is to be able to send a reliable overdriven tone to the PA. I recently tried to do this from my Sans Amp but it wasn't working correctly, I could hear it clipping. Any thoughts on what direction I could take? Eg different DI box, rackmounted? Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CameronJ Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 It could well be that the direct sound from your sansamp to the PA was just harsh sounding as the PA will have been putting out all the high end content that many dedicated bass amps don’t. What’s your usual amp? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pburrows Posted February 8, 2018 Author Share Posted February 8, 2018 I use a Trace Elliot 350SMX, plenty of power there. I tried to DI from the sans amp first, when that didn't work I used the XLR out of the AMP to the PA and it sounded fine. I guess I'm interested to learn can I use a pedal or pre-amp to DI and have some more control over the tone/overdrive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CameronJ Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 Well the answer is definitely yes. There are tons of preamp pedals out there, with varying footprints and feature sets. I use an MXR M81 Bass Preamp (the little green one) and it s excellent. Takes up no more room than any standard MXR pedal and has a well thought out switchable EQ section. No overdrive but it sounds like you have that covered elsewhere. Stick this at the end of your pedalboard, turn a few knobs to taste and voila. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pburrows Posted February 8, 2018 Author Share Posted February 8, 2018 No, I don't have any ability to develop an overdriven tone that I like. I have the SansAmp pedal, but it just doesn't give me the sound that I like. I was watching a video about the Darkglass B7K DI which sounded great so I'm looking at a one-stop solution to handle overdrive and DI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 It could be that the Line level signal that was being sent from your Sansamp was connected to a Mic level input by the soundman. I had this a while back, and e-mailed Tech21 about it, fearing my pedal had broken, they were very helpful and just advised to select the -20db setting if it happened again. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NancyJohnson Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 You do have the option with a Sansamp of switching between line and instrument for the XLR output which will alter the XLR output strength and ideally the Sansamp should be at the end of your signal chain. You can always tweak the level down as well (it's not always about getting the hottest signal possible into the desk). I've never been a fan of sticking any pre-stage into the front of an amp either. Your Trace gear will have it's own tonal characteristics (and from memory the whole SMX fascia it pretty much there to shape and filter what hits the poweramp side of the head). All you're doing is loading the Sansamp pre-stage output on top of the Trace pre-stage, so things will get muddy. Neither the Trace or Sansamp operate on a true bypass format, so both units will work together and generally not for the best. There's an argument that for best results, the Sansamp should just go into the effects return on any amp (just use the 1/4" output jack), thus bypassing the pre-stage. (You may need to put a jack plug, or one of this mini-jack to 1/4" headphone connectors, into one of the amplifier's front inputs to facilitate this.) This way the Sansamp will control your entire tone. I know there's a lot of controls that will become obsolete, but try it, you might be surprised. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pburrows Posted February 8, 2018 Author Share Posted February 8, 2018 blimey thanks for your help guys, that sounds quite technical. All I'm really trying to do is get a nice bit of overdrive grit into the sound that comes out that the audience can hear. Maybe there is another approach that I should be investigating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
la bam Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 If youre di ing from your amp, isnt the best option to not have a sansamp? From what i can gather a sansamp is ideal if you can create your sound from the sansamp box and send that to the pa and just use whats on stage for monitoring. It sounds like what youre doing is keeping your desired sound on stage and sending a different sound to the desk pa? Id either send the full sound from your trace di or create a completely separate sound using your sansamp and pedals and send that to the desk then the output to the onstage amp and adjust as desired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casapete Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 I use the Sansamp just as a straightforward DI to the desk, using the parallel (unaffected) output into my amp. I'm not a big fan of using an outboard preamp into the front end of my amp head, but when I've tried the Sansamp in this capacity it did seem okay for adding a bit of overdrive. Have you checked out their sample settings? Link here http://www.tech21nyc.com/support/manuals/sansamp/BassDriver-OM1.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
casapete Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 In case you're wondering, I use the Sansamp as a straight DI rather than the amplifier's XLR in case of amp failure. Should my amp have a problem, the feed to the FOH is unaffected and I could manage with the monitor mix for the rest of the gig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pburrows Posted February 8, 2018 Author Share Posted February 8, 2018 5 minutes ago, la bam said: If youre di ing from your amp, isnt the best option to not have a sansamp? From what i can gather a sansamp is ideal if you can create your sound from the sansamp box and send that to the pa and just use whats on stage for monitoring. It sounds like what youre doing is keeping your desired sound on stage and sending a different sound to the desk pa? Id either send the full sound from your trace di or create a completely separate sound using your sansamp and pedals and send that to the desk then the output to the onstage amp and adjust as desired. Yes, I think you've got it right. I'm mixing the 2 things up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pburrows Posted February 8, 2018 Author Share Posted February 8, 2018 Just now, casapete said: In case you're wondering, I use the Sansamp as a straight DI rather than the amplifier's XLR in case of amp failure. Should my amp have a problem, the feed to the FOH is unaffected and I could manage with the monitor mix for the rest of the gig. And yes, that's kind of what I like to have the sansamp for. Ultimately I'd like to go ampless Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 What are you planning on using for monitoring? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 Time to go Helix I reckon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LewisK1975 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 6 minutes ago, EBS_freak said: Time to go Helix I reckon. My thoughts exactly Russ. Not a cheap solution, but good grief, it really works! I don't even have an amp on stage any more, Bass-Helix-PA, in-ears for monitoring. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 9 minutes ago, LewisK1975 said: My thoughts exactly Russ. Not a cheap solution, but good grief, it really works! I don't even have an amp on stage any more, Bass-Helix-PA, in-ears for monitoring. It's a great time to be buying modellers... and the fx are great too... so see it as an amp and pedalboard replacement and it will make a hell of a lot of financial sense. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pburrows Posted February 8, 2018 Author Share Posted February 8, 2018 Yes guys, I'm starting to think about Helix. I was looking at the LT last night. Its a bit of a learning curve and you're right its pricy. Currently I use my Trace head, with a Barefaced Super Compact for backline. It's plenty loud enough for monitoring. So thats why I was thinking about using the Sansamp or an alternative DI almost like a halfway house towards going full helix. How much do you reckon Helix + powered cab would cost? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EBS_freak Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 Helix or Helix LT? Also have a look at the FRFR story thread for inspiration on the cab front. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ribbetingfrog Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 I use the mxr bass Di plus. Has a pre-amp section and distortion section. Can also run a parallel out to your amp for monitoring. Great pedal. Plenty of other options out there. Our band play through our PA all the time, works a treat. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pburrows Posted February 8, 2018 Author Share Posted February 8, 2018 3 minutes ago, EBS_freak said: Helix or Helix LT? Also have a look at the FRFR story thread for inspiration on the cab front. Yes I read that on the FRFR thread. Very good read. I think the Helix LT should be OK shouldn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Monkey Steve Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 worth having a look at the Ampeg SCR DI too The amp simulator stage is clearly aimed at Ampeg sounds and has some of the SVT tailored eq stages - but includes a fuzz box. I'm not a huge fan of bass fuzz (I was actually after the SVT eq) and I tend to use it with a Sansamp VT pedal which has (to my ears) a better SVT impression, but if you're not after that level of SVTness it may be a neat solution that includes the fuzz. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LewisK1975 Posted February 8, 2018 Share Posted February 8, 2018 26 minutes ago, pburrows said: Yes I read that on the FRFR thread. Very good read. I think the Helix LT should be OK shouldn't it? Helix LT is what I use, no complaints! I don't need the extra ins/outs that the Full Helix has, and don't need the scribble strips or a separate headphone volume. There's not much more missing from the LT vs Full Helix. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pburrows Posted February 8, 2018 Author Share Posted February 8, 2018 12 minutes ago, LewisK1975 said: Helix LT is what I use, no complaints! I don't need the extra ins/outs that the Full Helix has, and don't need the scribble strips or a separate headphone volume. There's not much more missing from the LT vs Full Helix. what do you use to monitor? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pburrows Posted February 8, 2018 Author Share Posted February 8, 2018 17 minutes ago, Monkey Steve said: worth having a look at the Ampeg SCR DI too The amp simulator stage is clearly aimed at Ampeg sounds and has some of the SVT tailored eq stages - but includes a fuzz box. I'm not a huge fan of bass fuzz (I was actually after the SVT eq) and I tend to use it with a Sansamp VT pedal which has (to my ears) a better SVT impression, but if you're not after that level of SVTness it may be a neat solution that includes the fuzz. cheers, will check that out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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