Al Krow Posted February 12, 2018 Author Share Posted February 12, 2018 (edited) 11 minutes ago, oldbass said: Guy said to me recently, "wow you sounded great"..I said "oh, how'd you mean was it a good tone?" "No idea" he said "..but I could hear that low sound under everyone else." Doesn't that just go to show you what this is all about..the audience haven't a clue! And to be honest I've been to a few gigs lately (big and small) and even I started loosing interest in the various bass tones I was hearing....seems out in audience-land bass is just a drone that seems to be lower than everything else!! 3 minutes ago, EssentialTension said: It's not all about tone. It's also about note choice, rhythm, phrasing, and rests. +1 to both the above Edited February 12, 2018 by Al Krow Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dannybuoy Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 27 minutes ago, oldbass said: Guy said to me recently, wow you sounded great..I said oh, how'd you mean was it a good tone?, no idea he said ..but I could hear that low sound under everyone else. Dosent that just go to show you what this is all about..the audience havent a clue!And to be honest Ive been to a few gigs lateley (big and small) and even I started loosing interest in the various bass tones I was hearing....seems out in audience land bass is just a drone that seems to be lower than everything else!! A lot of that is down to basics like people not being able to use their gear effectively, rather than the nuances between different brands of cab that some obsess over. You can make one cab sound close to another just by tweaking your EQ. But if you create an overly boomy or tinny sound by not using your EQ properly or poor choice of cab placement, it doesn't really matter if you're using a Peavey or a Venderkley. The tone is has to be good enough so the audience can hear it clearly, and the sound suits the song. Spending hours A/B-ing the minuscule differences between different equipment is probably better spent working on note choice, rhythm, phrasing and rests! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frank Blank Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 It’s all about chewing gum while you swing yo’ donkey, that’s the top and bottom of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulWarning Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 a lot of the time the audience doesn't know what the bass does because they can't bloody hear it, people go on about what a great tone JJ Burnel has (had) but that's because it's so high in the mix, not saying it's not a great tone but if it was at the same level as say Bad Religion which I'm listening to as I type this nobody would have a clue what his tone was Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horrorhiker Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 55 minutes ago, EssentialTension said: It's not all about tone. It's also about note choice, rhythm, phrasing, and rests. There are a lot of isolated bass tracks on Youtube that prove this well. The amount of comments talking about the playing being 'sloppy' or 'weak' is amazing. No consideration of the things you listed. Does it sound right in the mix? If yes, there is no problem with tone or anything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikel Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 (edited) 17 hours ago, jcater said: Have to agree with Lozz196. I recently watched a band in a local pub playing covers from the 60's and 70's, the band were good but the bass tone was one that really did not appeal, far too trebely, aggressive sounding and too loud. A few friends left the pub saying that they could not stand the bass volume or harsh sound. Maybe it is not so important to achieve a really good tone as it is to avoid having a really bad tone for the style of music that is being played. The type of music being played may well be the most important factor in determining the tone we should be aiming for. Yep, and the bassist probably thought he had a killer tone. Spent years defining his sound and spent a fortune on bass, amp, cabs and effects. His tone was not appropriate to the music. Subjective, but some people search for their tone with little thought to what genre of music they will be playing. Horses for courses. Edited February 12, 2018 by mikel mistakes Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Krow Posted February 12, 2018 Author Share Posted February 12, 2018 (edited) Ok one of my bands have had a couple of months' break due to hols and we were focusing on nailing 5 new songs for a gig with just one rehearsal to do it in. Bass tone? Lol! They didn't even notice I was playing a 5 string bass for the first time ever with them tonight!! Not until 2.5 hours into the rehearsal and I asked them what was different about my gear? Edited February 13, 2018 by Al Krow 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krispn Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 On 2/12/2018 at 14:54, Horrorhiker said: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krispn Posted February 13, 2018 Share Posted February 13, 2018 Skip to 11:30 and listen to the bass tone isolated. Is it a 'good' tone? Perhaps, perhaps not. Does it work in the context of the band. You damn skippy hippie it does. Now I've 'actively listened' to Epic following this breakdown I can hear all of these parts. Not sure I was fully aware of all of them before but I've always liked this song (decent headphones helps too). I'm not pretending to be one of these internet evangelists but these breakdowns really tune the ear if that's something that interests folk. From 0:00-11:30 they're talking drums and it's a great groove with some nice studio trickery on the snare I wasn't aware if either. Nice! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Krow Posted February 16, 2018 Author Share Posted February 16, 2018 Muzz, I love it! If fellow musicians don't even notice you're playing a 12 string, then what hope is there for us in thinking that Joe Public really does?! Lol! I'm taking the liberty of picking up on what you've just said on this thread also, 'cos it COMPLETELY ties in with the point that a number of folks have made, which is that for the wider public nuances of bass tone are just not a thing; and certainly rank way down the field in comparison to how well the bass is actually played. 1 minute ago, Muzz said: Unfortunately, I can attest to a lot of other musicians not really giving a toss: I took a 12-string Dean Rhapsody to a rehearsal of our originals band once, played it on a couple of songs, and when we had a break, the conversation went exactly as follows: "What did you all think?" "About what?" "The 12-string I was playing? I used it on *song name* and *song name*" "Errr, did you? Oh. It was...OK. It's that black one, yeah?" I didn't persevere. Having said that, I use the Zoom B3's Octave Up preset on a couple of our trio songs these days, and it fills the sound out...it's good enough for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuzzie Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 Basically people are always going to find something or a quote that resonates with their opinion and then say, there you go! @Al Krow I take them in order to balance an argument if I said in a different thread to this (this is actually true). I took my 12 string to jam last night with my band, they liked the sound and tone so much, and did notice that they thought we should either modify or write new songs to incorporate it into the mix you would have copy pasted it onto this one?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Krow Posted February 16, 2018 Author Share Posted February 16, 2018 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Cuzzie said: Basically people are always going to find something or a quote that resonates with their opinion and then say, there you go! @Al Krow I take them in order to balance an argument if I said in a different thread to this (this is actually true). I took my 12 string to jam last night with my band, they liked the sound and tone so much, and did notice that they thought we should either modify or write new songs to incorporate it into the mix you would have copy pasted it onto this one?! Yup. Even though you no longer own a P-bass (having sold your last P to make way for this 12 string beast) your observation and comment here is, of course, just as valid as Muzz's, even if it makes for boring copy Edited February 16, 2018 by Al Krow 'Cos I need to get my your and you're(s) right... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muzz Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 Yep: I've had very very very few comments from anyone (muso or punter) on my actual bass tone - the majority of comments (and there haven't been many...then again, if I was in it for the compliments, I wouldn't have picked up a bass in the first place...) have been about how tight the bass and drums are (musos), or just how good the songs sound (punters). That's the bottom line for me. Having said that, I do work on my tone in the context of the band and the song, and for the stupidly broad range of covers (anyone else do Johnny Cash, Bambolero, Ultra Nate, The Dubliners (I knowwww), Muse and the Chilis?) we do as a trio, that means a broad range of tones. I figure if people don't notice, and they're just hearing a good song done well, it must be pretty much right. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuzzie Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 @Al Krow do you currently own a P? Not sure you do mate, it’s about the only one of your 58 basses you don’t have Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sibob Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 Not sure what people define as 'great bass tone', but what is important is having a tone that glues the rest of the band together, that fills the necessary sonic space and stays out of the way of other instruments.....that tone could be literally anything (depending on the musical context) and still be 'great'. So yes a 'complimentary' tone is incredibly important. Si Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Krow Posted February 16, 2018 Author Share Posted February 16, 2018 Just now, Cuzzie said: @Al Krow do you currently own a P? Not sure you do mate, it’s about the only one of your 58 basses you don’t have Ah what is a P bass? Do only Fender make P-basses and, if so, by extension are they the only ones who make J basses too? And everyone else just makes copies?! I think not. My Yammy BB qualifies as a P my friend as much as our Bergs qualify as a Js. Certainly in my books. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muzz Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 And on tone in general, I went to a gig at the Academy 3 in Manchester last week, three bands (two of whom I've known/played with on and off for years), and none of the bassists had a tone I could actually hear above a rumble. It was all just mahoooosive kick and snare, and then a subsonic blur around the bass. The guitar sounds were distinct and different, but the bass? Nope. Same with Alterbridge at the Arena last year: the bassist could have been doing anything. But I guess that's just engineers these days... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuzzie Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 @Al Krow isn’t your Yammy a PJ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Krow Posted February 16, 2018 Author Share Posted February 16, 2018 Just now, Cuzzie said: @Al Krow isn’t your Yammy a PJ? Yes - you've got me there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuzzie Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 @Al Krow yepnyou fell into the trap! A wise man once said on this thread that being accurate in relation to bass is far more important than tone.....any ideas?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krispn Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 Muzz we do quite a broad range of tunes too. Depeche Mode, Dubliners, Dropkick Murphys, Rhianna, Avicii, House of Pain etc. And a solid bass tone is gonna do all of that with varying degrees of tone knob and right hand. It's then what we add to bring the tone in line with the recording. Bit of drive and salp and pop, tone off and using the thumb etc. I'd say all of us on here have a degree of competence on the bass and know how to elicit the tones we want via technique and with effects. I think I have a good bass tone and I use a couple of pedals. Do the punters know? I often see, presumably, guitarists/bassists looking at my pedal board pre gig or during the set or waiting to see what bass I pull out of the gig bag etc. Folk in the audience may or may not know about gear but they are unlikely that bothered if you have ten pedals or none, they just want you to play well and are more likely to comment that you sound good or tight rather or the tone used. I think those collective elements no matter how larger or small - tone, technique tightness as a unit - are what folk enjoy and it's often times hard to break each down or indeed pointless to over think it in isolation. You might be sloppy on the bass but have a great stage presence and a great tone. Poeple may well enjoy your 'performance' and forgive the sloppy playing...asuuming they even noticed in the first place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muzz Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 Yep, I agree (and it's nice to know someone else has all that spectrum to go at ) and I'd put bass tone waaaayyyy down the list on what punters notice - as you said, performance, tightness as a band, stage presence are all in the mix, and going on any feedback I've ever had, are more important (as long as the tone in question isn't massively inappropriate). I'm beginning to think it's just me who has so few people pay any attention to what gear or tone I have, apart from one drunk self-proclaimed bassist at a gig six months ago who took offense at my Fenderbird as "Just wrong, mate" . I honestly have very very few conversations with people about bass at gigs...it might be my face... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krispn Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 I mainly play in an Irish bar here in Edinburgh for the majority of my gigs and we like to do a range of tunes to keep it interesting The most often heard comment I get is from English Toff students saying "Yeah slap that bass man!"...in the middle of a 'root-fifth' Pogues number or some other tune where that last thing anybody needs to hear is me slapping my plank but that's a whole other thread! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Muzz Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 Well, at least they spotted you were the bassist...and I suppose it's better than the usual "Here mate, do you know any Queen/Abba/ELO/Chaka Khan*/whatever?" when you're in the middle of a song... "Erm, I'm a bit busy right now..." * Yes, really...Chaka Khan. We're a trio of fifty-something blokes...it was a wedding gig, she was a bridesmaid, not that hammered, and serious... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulWarning Posted February 16, 2018 Share Posted February 16, 2018 14 minutes ago, Muzz said: Yep, I agree (and it's nice to know someone else has all that spectrum to go at ) and I'd put bass tone waaaayyyy down the list on what punters notice - as you said, performance, tightness as a band, stage presence are all in the mix, and going on any feedback I've ever had, are more important (as long as the tone in question isn't massively inappropriate). I'm beginning to think it's just me who has so few people pay any attention to what gear or tone I have, apart from one drunk self-proclaimed bassist at a gig six months ago who took offense at my Fenderbird as "Just wrong, mate" . I honestly have very very few conversations with people about bass at gigs...it might be my face... thought it was just me, but I'm not complaining, the last thing I need is some drunken nerd I can't get rid of asking me about my gear and the way I play songs, that's guitarist territory, thankfully, although I did get told by a fellow bassist who I'm quite friendly with that my Fender V2 cabs underneath my Trace head was just wrong and would I like to borrow his Trace combo, only if you'll carry it around for me came the reply Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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