Andyjr1515 Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 (edited) Yes - I know this might result in removal of epaulettes (or worse) but trust me, it'll be worth it because one day - I promise - I'll build some of the same design features into a bass! This project is still in early stages at the moment, but is planned as an evolution of the recently completed 'Swift Lite' below It's a commission from my brother-in-law's partner, Jane. Female and new to guitar, Jane ticks two of the boxes of the type of players I had in mind when I was designing this. Players who might appreciate a guitar that sounds good and looks good but doesn't weigh the equivalent of a sack of coal . Those types of players include: young players; learners; old players; female players; anyone else who has asked the question 'So tell me again...just WHY are guitars so heavy?' Will it be a copy? No But it will be an evolution sharing many of the same design features. This is what I have in mind (actually, with one more tweak to incorporate): Some of the changes, which to be honest are using this new build as a test bed, are simply incorporating my own thoughts and feedback from regular players who've borrowed my own Swift Lite to try out and are just about playability for a lead guitar player. This includes the slightly further back cutaways to allow a full thumb anchor at the top cutaway and full access to bend at the 22nd frets of the lower cutaway. Yes - I know...there are other places they could put their thumb : The other change you can see is that the top horn is longer. My own Swift Lite balances perfectly on the strap - but at 5lbs 14oz is still a touch heavier than planned. The new one is aiming for the original target of 5lbs 8oz max. My logic is that, if mine balances just right, then any lighter might send it out of balance. With the top strap button at the 12th fret, this will balance however light the body ends up. Oh..and this might have some oak in it. Yes - I know....madness on so many levels More details as I crystallise them Andy Edited March 24, 2018 by Andyjr1515 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimothey Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 I think I share the same opinion as most on here Bass, Electric, Lute whatever we just enjoy watching your builds progress and evolve So I’m intrigued by this build that you want it lighter but your going to include some oak?? 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted February 10, 2018 Author Share Posted February 10, 2018 1 hour ago, Jimothey said: So I’m intrigued by this build that you want it lighter but your going to include some oak?? I know - madness! But the oak was a feature shelf that used to be over a large fireplace in the house she grew up in and which her parents lived in all their married lives. So, even with all the reservations about it as a building wood, I'm going to incorporate some in the build. Ideally, it would replace the sapele back - but that might make achieving the weight target impossible. As you know, @Jimothey, from your own builds, it's all about compromises (and trigonometry ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blablas Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 I like this upper horn shape a lot better than the previous one. Didn't want to tell you before but I felt the old horn somehow looked wrong to me and in the end it's your design. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreek Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 (edited) I hope this doesn't become a "design by committee" but here's my 2p worth. As Andy knows I was very pedantic about how the lines flowed in my Psilos. I've made a few amendments to Andy's design which, I believe, help the lines flow. This includes moving the lower cut back 1 fret. Note how the bottom horn flows more into both the top horn and into the armpit cut which makes it easier on the eye. By adjusting where the top cut is made you can make the eye flow more pleasing (IMO). What do others think?? Edited February 10, 2018 by TheGreek Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cato Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 (edited) 6 hours ago, Andyjr1515 said: Yes - I know this might result in removal of epaulettes (or worse) but trust me, it'll be worth it because one day - I promise - I'll build some of the same design features into a bass! Doesn't matter what you're making. I'd follow the thread if you were building a sideboard. Edited February 10, 2018 by Cato 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted February 10, 2018 Author Share Posted February 10, 2018 23 minutes ago, TheGreek said: I hope this doesn't become a "design by committee" but here's my 2p worth. As Andy knows I was very pedantic about how the lines flowed in my Psilos. I've made a few amendments to Andy's design which, I believe, help the lines flow. This includes moving the lower cut back 1 fret. Note how the bottom horn flows more into both the top horn and into the armpit cut which makes it easier on the eye. By adjusting where the top cut is made you can make the eye flow more pleasing (IMO). What do others think?? Some good lines there, Mick I'll be moving the lower waist back towards the tailstock. I'll repost the pic sometime soon (and explain why I'm moving the waist ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rOB Posted February 10, 2018 Share Posted February 10, 2018 1 hour ago, Cato said: Doesn't matter what you're making. I'd follow the thread if you were building a sideboard. Me too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Len_derby Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 What a fortunate lady Jane is. In my family you might get a new jumper commissioned; if you're lucky. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted February 11, 2018 Author Share Posted February 11, 2018 At the same time as I've been getting my head round the project, I've been trying to teach myself how to use Inkscape. To be honest, I've only just gleaned from forum discussions that such a package exists! First of all, this is one of the options for the top wood I may be using: An this below is my first attempt at clipping a photo of the amboyna with the shape designed on the package and overlain with the 25" scale-length component templates taken from a photo of my own Swift Lite prototype. Where I've been able to get the package to cooperate, I've incorporated a couple of Mick @TheGreek 's suggestions and also moved the lower waist back a touch. At this stage it's feasibility stuff so will need refining in any case. To a lot of you CAD afficianados I know this is kids stuff, but I'm well, well chuffed with the package and the results : Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimothey Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 I’ve just started using Inkscape aswell that’s what I used to design my scratch build except I can’t seem to get the photo crop then applying it to the body function to work properly But that’s looking really good Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted February 11, 2018 Author Share Posted February 11, 2018 8 minutes ago, Jimothey said: I’ve just started using Inkscape aswell that’s what I used to design my scratch build except I can’t seem to get the photo crop then applying it to the body function to work properly But that’s looking really good I cheated a bit - I managed to get the crops (or should I say 'clip's ) working fine, but the above is then more a series of clips pasted on top of each other - I have no doubt there is a better way of doing it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreek Posted February 11, 2018 Share Posted February 11, 2018 Amboyna is a beautiful timber - my ACG Harlot is made of this - however over time it's gone from an orange/red to brown. The grain, especially the spalted/bird's eye like you have, is a pleasure on the eye. My nephew used to work at John Lewis where they sold really expensive pens made from slivers. Looking forward to following this build. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 IMO (and especially on a guitar) cutaways should give easy access to ALL of the frets. Also I was meaning to ask on your last guitar build, when you essentially removed the heal and blended the neck into the body how does that affect the action of the truss rod? My understanding was that the truss rod acted on the neck between the nut/volute and where the neck thickens at the heal. If you remove the heal essentially making the neck longer do you need a longer truss rod? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted February 12, 2018 Author Share Posted February 12, 2018 1 minute ago, BigRedX said: Also I was meaning to ask on your last guitar build, when you essentially removed the heal and blended the neck into the body how does that affect the action of the truss rod? My understanding was that the truss rod acted on the neck between the nut/volute and where the neck thickens at the heal. If you remove the heal essentially making the neck longer do you need a longer truss rod? No - the truss rod is in its normal position. If you think about it, mine is no different to a bolt-on neck, but with no extra depth of the body underneath the bolt-on neck heel. The bending moment of the truss rod is pushing up in the middle of the fretboard and down either end so if you think of a bolt-on neck, unless the truss rod ends push their way through the slot floor, the neck will bend, whether it is bolted on or not. With neck-throughs, I think you can get issues if the body end of the rod extends too far, because the rod itself is trying to bend but the length that is held rigid by the body will not move at all. It took me a while to work out how this all interacted together, greatly aided by Tom's African build, if you remember that most unlikely of scenarios, where Tom's was basically a neck doing ALL of the functional stuff and the body just somewhere to fix one of the strap buttons onto ...and that's still going strong I understand Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimothey Posted February 12, 2018 Share Posted February 12, 2018 2 hours ago, Andyjr1515 said: No - the truss rod is in its normal position. If you think about it, mine is no different to a bolt-on neck, but with no extra depth of the body underneath the bolt-on neck heel. The bending moment of the truss rod is pushing up in the middle of the fretboard and down either end so if you think of a bolt-on neck, unless the truss rod ends push their way through the slot floor, the neck will bend, whether it is bolted on or not. With neck-throughs, I think you can get issues if the body end of the rod extends too far, because the rod itself is trying to bend but the length that is held rigid by the body will not move at all. It took me a while to work out how this all interacted together, greatly aided by Tom's African build, if you remember that most unlikely of scenarios, where Tom's was basically a neck doing ALL of the functional stuff and the body just somewhere to fix one of the strap buttons onto ...and that's still going strong I understand I just looked at this thread for this build awesome!!!!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted February 12, 2018 Author Share Posted February 12, 2018 25 minutes ago, Jimothey said: I just looked at this thread for this build awesome!!!!! Or put another way....terrifying! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted February 15, 2018 Author Share Posted February 15, 2018 (edited) I got round to having a look at the oak shelf and cut it into body-sized lengths: It's a bit cupped, so I ran it through the thicknesser first to take the hump off, and then reversed to take the wings off. Once it was flat and straight, I thicknessed it down to the nominal 25mm starting point: It will be cut into two wings, either side of the neck and is presently around 30mm wider than needed - as such, I will take off the excess from the rhs in this shot, bringing the feature figuring pretty much into the middle. While the neck will break that feature up - and the back will be scooped - hopefully there will still be a continuity of figuring showing either side of the neck. For oak, it doesn't feel too heavy. When I cut the excess off, I'll thickness a length of the offcut and compare the weight with a similar blank of the sapele. The other good news is - do you remember I made a wrong cut on Tim's Alembicesque and had to re-make the neck (below is the remade one)? Well - I've still got the original neck. It's here: It only couldn't be used because I'd already cut the top for Tim's. And I haven't cut the top yet for Jane's . So I can use it! It even has the correct neck angle, etc, etc, already done Edited February 15, 2018 by Andyjr1515 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimothey Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 That’s a stroke of luck re the neck!! I thought you might have gone down the route of chambering the oak to lighten it but thats good news that it’s not overly heavy.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreek Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 Remember that Jez has set a new standard for matching wood for facings... Personally I think it's just showing off... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted February 15, 2018 Author Share Posted February 15, 2018 2 hours ago, Jimothey said: That’s a stroke of luck re the neck!! I thought you might have gone down the route of chambering the oak to lighten it but thats good news that it’s not overly heavy.... Oh - I will be chambering...and some...too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted February 17, 2018 Author Share Posted February 17, 2018 Soon time to draw the first blood and start cutting wood. I've sorted the join line of the amboyna and tweaked the shape a little - actually, this will probably be tweaked 0.5cm wider either side of the centre line and bring the upper waist down a bit steeper round the lower bout, but this is the kind of shape: This evening I will glue the two halves together and tomorrow, cut out the shape. Some of you will know that I use the fancy top as the routing template - absolutely not recommended by most builders so I don't encourage you to do likewise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpondonBassed Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 14 hours ago, Andyjr1515 said: Soon time to draw the first blood and start cutting wood. I've sorted the join line of the amboyna and tweaked the shape a little - actually, this will probably be tweaked 0.5cm wider either side of the centre line and bring the upper waist down a bit steeper round the lower bout, but this is the kind of shape: This evening I will glue the two halves together and tomorrow, cut out the shape. Some of you will know that I use the fancy top as the routing template - absolutely not recommended by most builders so I don't encourage you to do likewise. ...and others are waiting for the day that you give your router flying lessons after it delivers a vicious bite to your book-matched bits. Heeheehee. I hope I have not tempted fate with my facetious comment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted February 18, 2018 Author Share Posted February 18, 2018 5 hours ago, SpondonBassed said: ...and others are waiting for the day that you give your router flying lessons after it delivers a vicious bite to your book-matched bits. Heeheehee. I hope I have not tempted fate with my facetious comment. I'm sure not I think with my builds, fate has ample opportunity to do its worst whatever 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andyjr1515 Posted February 18, 2018 Author Share Posted February 18, 2018 With the two halves of amboyna fitted and glued, I ran it through the scroll saw this morning. So, definitely time for the first mock-up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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