Music shop fails

[Doctor J]

When I moved out of the city to a real rural setting I was delighted to see a music shop in one of the closer big towns. I saw they stocked Elixirs so asked them to order me one of the .135 B strings instead of ordering off the internet. I told them I had a .130 but it wasn't taut enough for me so I was very specific about the .135. They said no problem, it would be a few days, they would call me when it was in and asked me to pay a deposit. No problem, I thought, paid a €10 deposit and went on my merry way to wait for the call. After a week of waiting, I asked my missus to check if it was in, as she was going into town and gave her the rest of the money. She arrived home, said they had the string, and had paid the remaining €18. I was a bit whizzed off they hadn't called but they got the string so I'd let them away with it. She opened her bag and handed me... a .130.

She was also going back into town the next day so she brought it back. I was annoyed with them and if they didn't have the .135 I just wanted a refund. Crap service sends me to the internet. She came home and said they refunded her and handed me... €18. They hadn't refunded the deposit. I changed my plans and went in the next day, having to argue with the goon behind the counter that A) he had ordered something I was very clear I already had, not the string I asked them to order - he even checked his notebook and, sure enough, there was 135 written there - and B) he had not refunded the deposit. He pointed at the €18 written on the invoice slip I had. I reminded him that the string had a €28 price tag on it and he had not sold it to me for €18 and if he couldn't remember me paying the deposit that was his problem. I had to point out that he didn't order things in without a deposit. Eventually, he relented and reluctantly handed me the rest of my money back. I left and have never crossed their door since. Perhaps the money I would have spent there would never be missed, but I've bought a lot of gear in the last 10 years and I would have loved to support a local business but every single thing was wrong about that first experience. Life is too short to go through something like that more than once.

[PaulWarning]

42 minutes ago, Horrorhiker said:

I know. Do they expect a round of applause? Sometimes I feel myself in the ridiculous position that I dumb my knowledge and playing down a bit tot come off as competitive with them, which I know is pretty stupid. It's a famous, age old, stereotypical problem too. I really wonder why shop owners don't pull their new guys aside on day 1 and say "Don't do X, Y and Z". 

because they can't resist showing off, it's the same reason most of us get up on a stage if we're being honest otherwise we'd just be happy rehearsing all the time (nothing wrong with that, some people are), but they really should resist the temptation, if the customer is a beginner they  just intimidate them, if they're experienced they just think what a silly billy

[Horrorhiker]

1 minute ago, PaulWarning said:

because they can't resist showing off, it's the same reason most of us get up on a stage if we're being honest otherwise we'd just be happy rehearsing all the time (nothing wrong with that, some people are), but they really should resist the temptation, if the customer is a beginner they  just intimidate them, if they're experienced they just think what a silly billy

Yes totally. I think it's ok to demonstrate instruments to beginners but it'd be more sensible to show them something dead simple, and better still, teach them to do it, instead of their first impression of a bass in the flesh being.."I'll never be able to do that". 

[Kevsy71]

(walks into sports shop run by former music shop staff)

 "I'd like to try those boots, please"

(Assistant gets a pair from the storeroom, puts them on, performs 'street skillz' juggles with the ball for 2 minutes, then takes them off and hands them to me)

 "And that relates to a match situation how exactly...?"

 

 

[AndyTravis]

2 hours ago, Horrorhiker said:

 I really wonder why shop owners don't pull their new guys aside on day 1 and say "Don't do X, Y and Z". 

I did this with a guy when I worked in a shop. He was frighteningly not good...but he did it all the time.

customers actually had to wrestle the bass or guitar from him.

it was embarrassing as you all get tarred with the same brush.

i didn’t sack him, he sort of sacked himself by being caught writing page after page of dodgy poetry on one of the Work computers in his work time.

[Horrorhiker]

Just now, AndyTravis said:

I did this with a guy when I worked in a shop. He was frighteningly not good...but he did it all the time.

customers actually had to wrestle the bass or guitar from him.

it was embarrassing as you all get tarred with the same brush.

i didn’t sack him, he sort of sacked himself by being caught writing page after page of dodgy poetry on one of the Work computers in his work time.

Ha ha, dodgy poetry? I can't tell if that's a rock and roll way to get sacked or not! 

Yeah it must be frustrating as one bad experience can make someone never go in the shop again. 

[AndyTravis]

3 minutes ago, Horrorhiker said:

Ha ha, dodgy poetry? I can't tell if that's a rock and roll way to get sacked or not! 

Yeah it must be frustrating as one bad experience can make someone never go in the shop again. 

Ah that shop was full of it. I loved the guys I worked with, but some of the stuff they did and said made my skin crawl. Anything heading towards a sales pitch made me wretch.

I was very much of the opinion that if someone had money to spend or a decent credit rating to get themselves something pretty, they just had to be left to it.

I’ve watched buyers turned into walkers. 

And always treated the kid buying a £19 uke the same as a guy buying a £5000 Les Paul. They always came back. 

But one off day could stop that from happening.

i grew tired of it, and I hated being that guy. It made me depressed - so left after 12 years.

[Horrorhiker]

Just now, AndyTravis said:

Ah that shop was full of it. I loved the guys I worked with, but some of the stuff they did and said made my skin crawl. Anything heading towards a sales pitch made me wretch.

I was very much of the opinion that if someone had money to spend or a decent credit rating to get themselves something pretty, they just had to be left to it.

I’ve watched buyers turned into walkers. 

And always treated the kid buying a £19 uke the same as a guy buying a £5000 Les Paul. They always came back. 

But one off day could stop that from happening.

i grew tired of it, and I hated being that guy. It made me depressed - so left after 12 years.

Yeah I can imagine it must get soul destroying. I really hate the sales thing..I imagine its a fine balance to not be in your face while still being available. 

I've definitely been unwittingly talked out of spending money before, both with guitars and other things. I used to have a pretty obvious heavy metal look, for want of a better term, when I was younger. I've twice walked out of car showrooms due to not being taken seriously by the smarmy sales people. Money burning a hole in my pocket and everything. I wish they knew it actually. 

The other complication is that I suppose some people want and expect the smarm to make themselves feel important. 

[Silvia Bluejay]

11 hours ago, Horrorhiker said:

Yeah I can imagine it must get soul destroying. I really hate the sales thing..I imagine its a fine balance to not be in your face while still being available. 

I've definitely been unwittingly talked out of spending money before, both with guitars and other things. I used to have a pretty obvious heavy metal look, for want of a better term, when I was younger. I've twice walked out of car showrooms due to not being taken seriously by the smarmy sales people. Money burning a hole in my pocket and everything. I wish they knew it actually. 

The other complication is that I suppose some people want and expect the smarm to make themselves feel important. 

I had that in my late 20s - early 30s when my normal clothes were jeans, leather jackets and a few studs here and there. At the time I wasn't a musician, just the girlfriend of an equally metalled-up guitarist, but the attitude in those music stores that saw themselves as 'upmarket' was exactly as described above.

(Slightly OT, when I bought my first home in this country, 20-odd years ago, we had to scrub up and look 'smart' to go to the estate agent, even after paying the deposit: they otherwise simply didn't believe a word I said and couldn't take me seriously - and I was a cash buyer!).

After getting into playing an instrument, my main problem used to be sexism in music stores. 'Middle aged female looking at basses' almost always triggered either the dreaded  'Is it for your son? Can I recommend this/that?' or 'That's a *bass* guitar, are you looking for one of those with 6 strings instead?'. Thankfully, I haven't experienced that anywhere in the last few years, and I was never patronised at Wunjos in Denmark Street, for instance.

[uk_lefty]

11 hours ago, Horrorhiker said:

've definitely been unwittingly talked out of spending money before, both with guitars and other things. I used to have a pretty obvious heavy metal look, for want of a better term, when I was younger. I've twice walked out of car showrooms due to not being taken seriously by the smarmy sales people. Money burning a hole in my pocket and everything. I wish they knew it actually. 

I have had that in so many places. I dress ordinarily, but have had furniture shop staff sit around chatting when I'm in there needing a whole two bed flats worth of furniture (Furniture Village, Southampton) and then they jump on the white haired man in slacks who pulls up in his Volvo saloon. 

My favourite on cars is "you have to confirm you're going to buy it, then we talk about if we can do anything on the price". I have had that in numerous garages. Imagine a guitar shop doing that!! Confirm you're definitely going to buy that vintage bass at a massive price and I'll then see if I can bring it closer to market value and throw in the case". How can you confirm you'll complete a deal before you know what the deal is?!?!

Oh, I'm a professional buyer. Rule number 1, always be prepared to walk away. Always.

[Guest]

Musical instrument profit margins aren’t exactly massive. How much does  a normal music shop “sales” assistant get paid? Probably nowhere near enough to attract anyone with decent sales skills (or even basic people skills). Thus most people working in shops are either part time musicians doing it for a bit of spare cash or older, unsuccessful musicians trying to stay in the industry. The market has shrunk massively from when I started playing, so think of it as a slightly odd, “specialist” market populated by weirdos (that’s us!), cut the sales people some slack, and if you want something and you like it, buy it instead of cutting off your nose to spite your face because you didn’t get “service”. I’ve definitely noticed that the quality of service across the board is much worse than it used to be - lifted only occasionally by someone who actually cares about what they’re doing. But then, that’s a different debate for a different thread.

[Horrorhiker]

1 hour ago, Silvia Bluejay said:

I had that in my late 20s - early 30s when my normal clothes were jeans, leather jackets and a few studs here and there. At the time I wasn't a musician, just the girlfriend of an equally metalled-up guitarist, but the attitude in those music stores that saw themselves as 'upmarket' was exactly as described above.

(Slightly OT, when I bought my first home in this country, 20-odd years ago, we had to scrub up and look 'smart' to go to the estate agent, even after paying the deposit: they otherwise simply didn't believe a word I said and couldn't take me seriously - and I was a cash buyer!).

After getting into playing an instrument, my main problem used to be sexism in music stores. 'Middle aged female looking at basses' almost always triggered either the dreaded  'Is it for your son? Can I recommend this/that?' or 'That's a *bass* guitar, are you looking for one of those with 6 strings instead?'. Thankfully, I haven't experienced that anywhere in the last few years, and I was never patronised at Wunjos in Denmark Street, for instance.

Oh dear, glad to hear that sort of thing is rarer. That would wind me up no end. There has to be some sort of alpha male thing going on with sales. 

[Horrorhiker]

5 minutes ago, FDC484950 said:

Musical instrument profit margins aren’t exactly massive. How much does  a normal music shop “sales” assistant get paid? Probably nowhere near enough to attract anyone with decent sales skills (or even basic people skills). Thus most people working in shops are either part time musicians doing it for a bit of spare cash or older, unsuccessful musicians trying to stay in the industry. The market has shrunk massively from when I started playing, so think of it as a slightly odd, “specialist” market populated by weirdos (that’s us!), cut the sales people some slack, and if you want something and you like it, buy it instead of cutting off your nose to spite your face because you didn’t get “service”. I’ve definitely noticed that the quality of service across the board is much worse than it used to be - lifted only occasionally by someone who actually cares about what they’re doing. But then, that’s a different debate for a different thread.

I have to disagree there. If people accept bad service it legitimises it. It's then more and more acceptable for other poor practices to creep in, such as hanging onto deposits, repairs being late etc etc. I agree that wages are too low, but you shouldn't have to put a price on good manners and consideration..I let people have mine for free. 

[Silvia Bluejay]

9 minutes ago, Horrorhiker said:

Oh dear, glad to hear that sort of thing is rarer. That would wind me up no end. There has to be some sort of alpha male thing going on with sales. 

I think it was just a matter of ignorance or mental laziness. Until a few years ago, there were a lot more (musically clueless) mothers of male bassists than there were female bass players, especially middle-aged ones, and sweeping generalisations in shops and society at large were rife.

[discreet]

19 minutes ago, FDC484950 said:

...cut the sales people some slack, and if you want something and you like it, buy it instead of cutting off your nose to spite your face because you didn’t get “service”.

...Or like it, then scamper off and buy it for a few pounds less online...

[PaulWarning]

8 minutes ago, discreet said:

...Or like it, then scamper off and buy it for a few pounds less online...

the internet has completely changed the face of retailing, Maplin and Toy R us are the latest victims, even Newsagents (I used to own one) are nearly all gone, around where I live anyway, who has a newspaper delivered these days?newspaper circulation is falling of a cliff

[Guest]

20 minutes ago, Horrorhiker said:

I have to disagree there. If people accept bad service it legitimises it. It's then more and more acceptable for other poor practices to creep in, such as hanging onto deposits, repairs being late etc etc. I agree that wages are too low, but you shouldn't have to put a price on good manners and consideration..I let people have mine for free. 

YOU do, but people in general don’t nowadays do they? Good manners aren’t all that common. I agree that we shouldn’t accept poor service, but then some of the examples on this thread are of people expecting, almost demanding good service just because they’re spending money. And that service should be, not too pushy, but don’t ignore me too much either. I must confess to rarely, if ever, experiencing such personally-tailored service. Well-trained, motivated and well-chosen sales staff can make a retail business more successful, but average service in most industries doesn’t stop the money coming in - until you’re undercut by online retailers and you go bust because there’s nothing to differentiate you - see Malplin, Toys R Us, Comet, Woolworth etc etc. It’s a vicious circle.

[Horrorhiker]

18 minutes ago, Silvia Bluejay said:

I think it was just a matter of ignorance or mental laziness. Until a few years ago, there were a lot more (musically clueless) mothers of male bassists than there were female bass players, especially middle-aged ones, and sweeping generalisations in shops and society at large were rife.

Yeah I can imagine. 

I was watching a doc about the band Vixen the other day, think it was Bands Reunited. They mentioned that in the late 80s, 90s, they would have the other males on the tour having a look round their stuff and spying on them to make sure it was them playing and not a backing track. 

[Silvia Bluejay]

3 minutes ago, Horrorhiker said:

Yeah I can imagine. 

I was watching a doc about the band Vixen the other day, think it was Bands Reunited. They mentioned that in the late 80s, 90s, they would have the other males on the tour having a look round their stuff and spying on them to make sure it was them playing and not a backing track. 

[Off Topic]

Vixen were a good band, but they ended up bankrupt because nobody - rock audiences or record companies - appeared to take them seriously. Things began to change when Courtney Love and Hole crashed on to the scene. Never liked that band, but she was so defiant and in-your-face that, in the end, the music world was forced to get used to female musicians, and from then, there was no stopping the process.

[End of Off topic]

[Geek99]

On 28/02/2018 at 10:59, EBS_freak said:

It does your head in doesn't it?

I hate to say it, but I've been one of those people where they left my package "in the grey bin on the drive" - the very one that was being picked up by the dustbin men. *facepalm*

It was some diving equipment - and to be fair to the shop, they sent me out replacements straight away and told me to "let us deal with the d1ckheads".

I had one idiot from hermes who walked up the side of my house, into the patio, through the patio and opened the garden shed and left it in there. I said to Hermes this is what it must actually feel like to be burgled. 

[Happy Jack]

3 minutes ago, Geek99 said:

I had one idiot from hermes who walked up the side of my house, into the patio, through the patio and opened the garden shed and left it in there. I said to Hermes this is what it must actually feel like to be burgled. 

In fairness, he did mow the lawn ...

[Horrorhiker]

45 minutes ago, FDC484950 said:

YOU do, but people in general don’t nowadays do they? Good manners aren’t all that common. I agree that we shouldn’t accept poor service, but then some of the examples on this thread are of people expecting, almost demanding good service just because they’re spending money. And that service should be, not too pushy, but don’t ignore me too much either. I must confess to rarely, if ever, experiencing such personally-tailored service. Well-trained, motivated and well-chosen sales staff can make a retail business more successful, but average service in most industries doesn’t stop the money coming in - until you’re undercut by online retailers and you go bust because there’s nothing to differentiate you - see Malplin, Toys R Us, Comet, Woolworth etc etc. It’s a vicious circle.

My perspective comes from working as a care worker to supplement my rock star income. We all get paid nearly minimum wage, but any cutting of slack, undercutting or cutting corners can basically result in the company closing, everyone getting in the news, me going to prison and people I'm caring for getting abused. Because of this, the 'cut them slack as they don't earn much' argument doesn't hold much water for me, and I can't really sympathise much with a similarly paid shop worker unless they have daily contact with other peoples bodily fluids...

Saying that, it is true that a lot of people don't have manners and respect, but if I was an employer I'd try make sure I kept the ones that do. My local shop is quite good actually and their staff turnover is very low for a music shop I suspect. This is from smart employing I'd assume.   

I think you're right by saying its a balancing act, pleasing people though. There are definitely some people that expect a bit of 'arris kissing. Some of it is having the skill of gauging that when you meet someone, which is easier said than done. I must say, I feel very uncomfortable when being given the smarm, and have said before 'please talk to me like a normal human or I'll have to go'. 

I'm not sure about average service keeping a company going. Certainly online, the ones that go beyond the basics seem to do better. With guitar/bass shops, in anything other than bigger places, there is often only one. I suspect if there were two or three, just average service would quickly start to not cut the mustard. 

 

Edited March 2, 2018 by Horrorhiker

[T-Bay]

16 minutes ago, FDC484950 said:

YOU do, but people in general don’t nowadays do they? Good manners aren’t all that common. I agree that we shouldn’t accept poor service, but then some of the examples on this thread are of people expecting, almost demanding good service just because they’re spending money. And that service should be, not too pushy, but don’t ignore me too much either. I must confess to rarely, if ever, experiencing such personally-tailored service. Well-trained, motivated and well-chosen sales staff can make a retail business more successful, but average service in most industries doesn’t stop the money coming in - until you’re undercut by online retailers and you go bust because there’s nothing to differentiate you - see Malplin, Toys R Us, Comet, Woolworth etc etc. It’s a vicious circle.

I think a lot, but not all, comes down to how staff are treated. If people are well paid and feel valued they will respond in kind. If people are treated like dirt and paid peanuts they will have very little loyalty to that employer. Why so many companies fail to see this is quite beyond me.

[Horrorhiker]

9 minutes ago, Silvia Bluejay said:

[Off Topic]

Vixen were a good band, but they ended up bankrupt because nobody - rock audiences or record companies - appeared to take them seriously. Things began to change when Courtney Love and Hole crashed on to the scene. Never liked that band, but she was so defiant and in-your-face that, in the end, the music world was forced to get used to female musicians, and from then, there was no stopping the process.

[End of Off topic]

Yeah, there was also Girlschool who should have done better really. Sorry to continue the off topic. ha ha

[Horrorhiker]

7 minutes ago, T-Bay said:

I think a lot, but not all, comes down to how staff are treated. If people are well paid and feel valued they will respond in kind. If people are treated like dirt and paid peanuts they will have very little loyalty to that employer. Why so many companies fail to see this is quite beyond me.

Hear hear.