la bam Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 Just a thing we take for granted as the design is almost identical on 95% of basses, but is the standard tuner or machine head a flawed design? Constantly having to be adjusted (mostly albeit only slightly) due to playing, and always getting caught and turned in transit case or bag.... or catching on something somewhere. Are these are flawed design we put up with - or the best solution for the job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 Mine work fine, I have never thought 'I must get some new tuners'. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ikay Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 Rick Toone (really?) would agree with you - http://www.ricktoone.com/tuner.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bartelby Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 3 minutes ago, ikay said: Rick Toone (really?) would agree with you - http://www.ricktoone.com/tuner.html His tuning systems are works of art. Not sure I'd want one though... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Bay Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 And this is what it comes down to I bet, there possibly are technically better ways to do it but they would be more expensive to make and more complex/heavier so maybe less reliable/ hardwearing. Then there is the issue of getting people to buy them, when more than half the bass playing population seems to struggle with anything without a Fender logo on it, it could be a step too far for many. Life is a compromise. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musicbassman Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 .....and don't overlook the simple and basic engineering principle in use for a standard tuner - this is the worm gear drive which is self locking by nature - otherwise string tension could never be maintained. There are other engineering solutions but they are only marginally better and cost prohibitive e.g. Rick Toone's wet dreams for engineers as above! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Spend your money on somehting else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 If they weren't the best solution they would have been changed by now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T-Bay Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 That old chestnut, as the engineer in me shouts, so tell your version of best and I will tell you mine.............. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dood Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 Whilst I'm here, I find this to be an idea solution 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jus Lukin Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 (edited) - Edited February 25, 2022 by Jus Lukin 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brook_fan Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 When I had my acoustic bass built the first tumers I had on there just didn’t work. I don’t mean that they were a little difficult to use- they simply didn’t work. The first time I tuned the E to D the tuner snapped 😫 . These were a very expensive set as well. Got myself a set of hip shots and can’t imagine anything working more perfectly. Robbie Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZilchWoolham Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 I wouldn't want every bass to be headless, but that's purely for aesthetic reasons. When headless bridges and tuners work as they should (unfortunately my first encounter with them, on a Steinberger Synapse, ended with a 3-string bass) they are incredibly convenient. No worrying about bad windings, slipping or weird angles, and no stretching half a mile past the nut to make fast adjustments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
la bam Posted February 14, 2018 Author Share Posted February 14, 2018 Yep, theres no way the popular most common machine head tuner is the best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreek Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 I've always wondered why the flat part isn't removable and why tuners don't use a T spanner type thingy - like a football boot/golf shoe spanner. This would prevent accidental knocks. The drawback would be that you'd need to always carry the spanner and "quick tuning" for that slightly out of tune string would become a thing of the past. Seems I've found out why my idea has never taken off. Maybe there's something in what Essential Tension says.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jus Lukin Posted February 14, 2018 Share Posted February 14, 2018 (edited) - Edited March 1, 2022 by Jus Lukin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skybone Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 Or utilise the allan key that you use for the truss rod (in a similar way to headless bridges I suppose). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dom in Dorset Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 (edited) However you do it you'll still need to re-tune to compensate for changes in temperature (ambient or due to contact with your hot fingers) or just because you can't built a playable but totally rigid bass ie: cast iron through neck that's 8" deep. There will always be some slack in the system . Pianos have iron frames and no machine heads and still need tuning. My main bass is headless I still tune it mid gig. Edited February 15, 2018 by Dom in Somerset Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ikay Posted February 15, 2018 Share Posted February 15, 2018 Personally I like quaintly analogue things such as bendy strings and moving parts that need adjusting every so often, but for those that don't ... (fugly warning) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mikkoantt Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 Hi My Ibanez GWB105 (Gary Willis model fretless) have these tuners. This is genius solution to every tuning peg problems. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheGreek Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 On 14/02/2018 at 23:00, Jus Lukin said: Not too far from having a drum key in your pocket though. That's exactly the thing I was thinking of....well the thing I was trying to think of... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phil.c60 Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 (edited) On 15/02/2018 at 07:46, Dom in Somerset said: However you do it you'll still need to re-tune to compensate for changes in temperature (ambient or due to contact with your hot fingers) or just because you can't built a playable but totally rigid bass ie: cast iron through neck that's 8" deep. There will always be some slack in the system . Pianos have iron frames and no machine heads and still need tuning. My main bass is headless I still tune it mid gig. I've almost given up tuning in mid-gig. My '99 Hot Rod Precision seems to stay within a gnats whatsit for the whole gig but it has got a set of 7 year old flat-wounds on it, although so far my G&L L2000 (USA) seems the same despite a recent restring and set-up with flats. According to my Korg Ptichblack neither varies from one end of a gig to the other by very much. I still check at half time just in case a tuner took a knock but between songs? Never. Edited February 17, 2018 by phil.c60 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted February 17, 2018 Share Posted February 17, 2018 I find it is rare that I have to tune up during a gig. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TrevorR Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 On 14/02/2018 at 23:00, Jus Lukin said: Not too far from having a drum key in your pocket though. Could work- not that I use one all the time, but I usually manage to have a plectrum in my pocket when I need one. Having a 'bass key' on hand might not be such a bad thing to have to do. Make it the same connection and the rhythm section could hopefully get each other out of a stick when one of them mislays their tuning tool. Although going headless is even more convenient, I suppose. The number of people I know who regularly forget straps, plectrums, leads and, in one memorable gig, their drum pedal... ...nope, I can’t see a single flaw in the removable tuning key alternative. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikel Posted February 18, 2018 Share Posted February 18, 2018 (edited) They are simple, they work and have stood the test of time. A sure sign of a good design.They are not perfect but few things are. Agreed, removable parts are rarely a good alternative, it would simply add more complexity. Edited February 18, 2018 by mikel additions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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